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Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

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posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Oh, I didn't know that, I always thought prop planes exhausts were pretty much the same as car exhausts, sort of, mind you, I suppose on a cold day you can see condensation coming from a car, cheers for putting me right




posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by woogleuk
 


Nah, figured you knew, was for everyone else.

To explain a bit more....the big, billowy contrails of the modern era, see how they somewhat resemble some of the ones made by the B-17s?

Actually, that is no coincidence. It's a function of certain similarities in the airflow patterns, and the hot exhausts.

The earlier jet engines, especially in the 1960s/70s were turboJET engines....and the next phase of development, the LOW-bypass turbofan....the majority of the thrust force was coming from the exhaust gases themselves, as they were expelled. (Early "fan" engines had a mix of thrust forces, varied by design).
Of course, contrails formed....but, due to the nature of the engine design, the persistent, and very large ones weren't common at all....more rare than today. Hence, the usual "claim" by "chemtrail" websites, about "short-lasting" contrails. It was the case, then.

Moving forward, jet turbine engine design continually changed. One goal was more power, more thrust, more efficiency....in fuel consumption. Other reasons involved noise, and increasing complaints/laws that meant imposing restrictions on decibel levels. What developed are called the "high-bypass" turboFAN engines.

This design, the majority (about 85-95%) of the thrust is provided by the big multi-bladed fan, in front (called "N1"), that you can see so easily from the airport terminal, when you look inside the intakes.

It is, essentially, a giant propeller....not a lot different from the big propeller of the WWII bombers (or other propeller airplanes).

"High-bypass" refers to the amount of air that "bypasses" the engine interior, and is not part of the combustion process....it goes around the outside of the engine itself, through the specially designed shroud...aerodynamically designed to be efficient, and utilize the air-mass most effectively.

Result is, both the large piston engined airplanes (with the large propeller that produces a horizontal column of air aft, as it provides forward thrust....that air envelopes the central hot exhaust gases) and the modern high-bypass fan engines, have VERY similar cool outer airflow and hot inner exhaust patterns.

ALL of that contributes to the size, appearance, and duration of contrails today.

Reason, of course, that this "chemtrail" hoax flourished at the time it did?? Coincided with the more common use of the high-bypass engines, and more and more new airplanes were built, with those engines installed, and older turbojets retired from service.

In the 1970s/early 1980s....you had a small percentage of jets with these engines....the B-747, DC-10 and L-1011, to name just three common types then. AND, most of those types of airplanes generally flew overseas trips, for the most part. Less frequently, on domestic flights. Certainly, there weren't as many as today, either.

Further reading, as a primer, and to fill in the missing spots from what I've contributed:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...



edit on 18 December 2010 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


wow, I hadn't realised that Germany and England had operational Jet fighters during WWII, I always thought that Germany was experimenting with them during that period, but it wasn't until post war that it really took off.
edit on 18/12/10 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


Just one more thought to add to your post that truly lines it up and puts it into context.

The Allegory of the Cave – also known as the Analogy of the Cave, Plato’s Cave, or the Parable of the Cave – is an allegory used by the Greek philosopher Plato in his work The Republic to illustrate “our nature in its education and want of education”.
Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.
"You can only see what they want you to see".

Truth comes from "facts", not from "educated guess work".

This came from a site I previously posted at.


Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by BadBoYeed
good eye

people who say they are just contrails obviously don't remember their childhood, because these chemtrails are a new (er) phenomenon

contrails didn't look like this 20 years ago


I first noticed them in colorado springs, like 6 years ago

so, anyone who says contrail...IMO, their mind is not open to the truth of this..........

Be good


Whats your theory to why they are doing this?


There was a lot less airtraffic when I was a child. And also, I clearly remember seeing contrails for as long as I can remember. Maybe you should question your own memory before that of others..and for that matter, your logic and reasoning as well.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Jacqua
 


Funny but I look up at the sky daily and guess what I see, you ready for this, I SEE CONTRAILS. I work around Atlanta and see planes coming and going, large and small alike. Yet I also see an X that is made from to plane contrails crossing each other. I have something that you should read here....


The United States Air Force maintains that the theory is a hoax which "has been investigated and refuted by many established and accredited universities, scientific organizations, and major media publications".
[5] The British Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has stated that chemtrails "are not scientifically recognised phenomena".
[3] The Canadian Leader of the Government in the House of Commons has stated that "The term 'chemtrails' is a popularised expression, and there is no scientific evidence to support their existence


en.wikipedia.org...

I think you may want to check this out as it will explain a good bit of everything that people are so ignorant to know.

I think I will leave you with that for now..



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Here you might want to read this...

www.areco.org...

It will explain that contrails can exist for hours. Read it then you can answer your own question about how long a contrail will stay in the sky.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 

Yes, I remember that story.
I also remember that the light (reality/truth) was blinding at first, and when he returned he could not explain the truth adequately to those in the cave, they thought he was crazy.
At least that is how I remember it, but it has been many years.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


"All Warfare Is Deception" Sun Tzu (Art of War) TPTB will not give the truth to us. Area 51 is a classic example. The Government will "slip", "slide", "weave", "bob", "lie", confuse, and distort any thing and everything to keep us from the truth. Who was it that said; "If the people knew what we have done, they would hang us"? Any one that puts faith in this Government is a fool by definition. The Government knows that the public will remember things but for a short period of time. Then, those things are forgotten because so many new things come into our minds. They use that to their advantage. They pump out more of their "garbage" by way of TV, Radio etc. Confusion of the masses is a priority for them. Who is "them". Many call them the NWO. So do I. Who owns the majority of the MSM? Check it out. Then, read who they are and what they believe in. It is enough to make a Billy goat puke.

There are those at this site, and other sites I post at, that say the same thing but in a little different manner. All in all, there are those that seek truth, then, there are those that seek to distort the truth. There are those that ignore truths but are deemed to be fools. There are no other choices.

"Seek and ye shall find, Knock and it shall be opened unto you".

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 


Wow! So what is it like in your world, because you seem to have a sad grip on reality. I have to ask why do you stay in this country if you are so sure they are out to get everybody? Why not go find some island and start your own country then you won't have to worry about the government trying to get you, or will you?



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 




Truth comes from "facts", not from "educated guess work".


Finally, you are going to use facts? Okay, where to start......

What are the chemicals used to make "chemtrails"?
Where are the chemicals produced?
How are the chemicals transported?
Where are the airplanes used to disperse the chemicals?
Where are the pilots who fly the planes that disperse the chemicals?
Where are the support crew involved in the operations of flying the planes?
How are the chemicals dispersed? (Most chemicals cited are solids, so would need a spray medium)
How much chemical is needed to produce a trail?
How long does a chemical released at flight altitude take to reach ground level?
How can you conclusively state that one trail is a "chemtrail" and another is a contrail?

Okay. Facts I deal with. It is, after all, an emperical question. There are either "chem" or there is not. I say "not", and I cannot prove a negative. You say "chem", so it's up to you. You all ("chem" believers) have evaded answering direct questions up to this point. I'm not asking for your opinion, because that would only be "guess work".

You have not shown any respect for expertise, so I'm imagining there is no pilots, meteorologists, chemists, etc among you, so you yourself have closed the "educated" part. Chemistry is provable. Prove it.


edit on 18-12-2010 by stars15k because: typo



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Aluminum is one of the Chemicals they are spraying on us left right and centre.... and behold (below) the side effects of Aluminum... Anyone suffering from any of these? :

Aluminum causes skeletal deformities and it is particularly poisonous to the nervous system with a range of symptoms that include: disturbed sleep, nervousness, emotional instability, memory loss, headaches, and impaired intellect.

It can stop the bodys ability to digest and make use of calcum. This prevents bone growth and reduces bone density. Auminum can also cause conditions which force calcium out of the bones.

Toxicity can also result in aching muscles, speech problems, anemia, digestive problems, lowered liver function, colic and imlpaired kidney function....


I just got back from my local Health Food Shop, which is particulary popular in this area, and I was talking to the sales girl there. She said that the biggest issue that people come in there with are Digestive problems. This being the number one complaint, and a range of issues that stem back to the digestive system ...

If I had the time to visit all the local doctors and parm companies, I imagine Id get the same story....



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Jacqua
 


You have NO IDEA what you're talking about! Just making it up....

"spraying" aluminum? Insane. HOW?? What airplanes? How does aluminum (a metal) get "sprayed"? What apparatus? Why are there no photos? To what purpose??

IF this were happening (it isn't)...then, what about the "elites"...they live here, too. You aren't being very rational.

Is it "powdered"? If so....HOW is it moved through a "sprayer"?? AND< what would it look like? IF it were "sprayed"....WHAT would it look lke? Would it even be visible??

Ever thought of that? You have no real understanding of this, at all...just repeating the same ridiculous claims, from ridiculous people, that you've read, and haven't applied any critical thinking to it....



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


You wrote:

Wow! So what is it like in your world, because you seem to have a sad grip on reality. I have to ask why do you stay in this country if you are so sure they are out to get everybody? Why not go find some island and start your own country then you won't have to worry about the government trying to get you, or will you?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

What do you care? Try using your sarcasm and lack of intelligence on some one that holds what you say in "high esteem". Your "drivel" is wasted on me. I DON'T ARGUE WITH FOOLS OR LITTLE BOYS like you. In the event that you don't like what I posted, then "move on down". No one asked you to read it. As your "picture" indicates, you are nothing more that a "poorly face painted demonic clown" with the IQ of a " retarted microscopic amoeba". Keep trusting the government you worship, demon, it will serve your purpose, for a time, and then,... One day they shall throw you away just like the "old shoe" you are.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OOOOOOOOOOOKKKYY! Got it!! Time for the moderators to come and defend another "pathetic idiot" that posts here at ATS. Give it to me, just remember, he fired on me first.

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by stars15k
 

Hey Stars, Mr. Gullible here.
How about you bring your skepticism to this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you could get some of your questions answered.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


OH....its the "Flying Pig".......... again. I do not argue with "fools".........for those of you that might have forgotten.

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by scoutsniper
 


I guess you are doing exactly what you are tired of and that is childish name calling when someone does not agree with you.


Now show me where I have made any childish name calling towards you..



Wow! So what is it like in your world, because you seem to have a sad grip on reality. I have to ask why do you stay in this country if you are so sure they are out to get everybody? Why not go find some island and start your own country then you won't have to worry about the government trying to get you, or will you?


And yet this is what you have done on a regular basis with those who disagree with you again.




Try using your sarcasm and lack of intelligence on some one that holds what you say in "high esteem". Your "drivel" is wasted on me. I DON'T ARGUE WITH FOOLS OR LITTLE BOYS like you. In the event that you don't like what I posted, then "move on down". No one asked you to read it. As your "picture" indicates, you are nothing more that a "poorly face painted demonic clown" with the IQ of a " retarted microscopic amoeba". Keep trusting the government you worship, demon, it will serve your purpose, for a time, and then,... One day they shall throw you away just like the "old shoe" you are.


After this remark you want the mods to help you. Good luck with that. They also see what you have been doing and posting.
This is something that you need to read.

16) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, libelous, defamatory, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.
So now show me the post where I have done any of the things that are in the T&C guidelines.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you should go back and read it again.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Alright now that is taken care of I have a little info I will share with you.


Aircraft jet engines also directly emit metal particles. Their sources include engine erosion and the combustion of fuel containing trace metal impurities or metal particles that enter the exhaust with the fuel (Chapter 7). Metal particles-comprising elements such as Al, Ti, Cr, Fe, Ni, and Ba-are estimated to be present at the parts per billion by volume


www.ipcc.ch...

Now lets look at a few things here shall we.

Al = Aluminum
Ti = Titanium
Cr= Chromium
Fe= Iron
Ni= Nickel
Ba= Barium

www.webelements.com...

So you say Aluminum is one of the main things being sprayed in these so called chemtrails? As it says above finding aluminum would not be something special since an airplane engine can emit these elements with the erosion of the engine. I guess the aluminum chemtrail argument has not much to stand on it seems. Don't believe me then visit the links that I supplied and see for yourself.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Surfer;
I did a little research of my own, not on chemtrails but on your past posts ( does that make me a stalker?)


I had thought you were just an overall antagonist but after reading a sample of your previous posts I realized I was wrong, you actually seem to be an open minded, intelligent and overall a great contributor of to the ATS community (cause)

Im not sure why you seem to be so dead set against the possibility that "chemtrails" exist but I guess its good to have members like you around to keep others on their toes.

Just try and keep it clean.. Remember, their is always a bit of truth wrapped up in a lie and even the most extreme conspiracy theory can turn out to be true..



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Animatrix
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Surfer;
...
...Im not sure why you seem to be so dead set against the possibility that "chemtrails" exist but I guess its good to have members like you around to keep others on their toes....

I'm not going to speak for surfer, but I personally am not "against the possibility that chemtrails exist". I mean, I'm sure the technology exists [but that doesn't mean the technology is being used on a regular basis in an organized effort]

HOWEVER, what most "chemtrail" believers argue is that ALL persistent trails that stretch from horizon to horizon are ALWAYS, ALWAYS Chemtrails because normal water vapor contrails cannot be persistent.

That assertion is simply wrong. Therefore, one can't use visual evidence (i.e., the appearance of trails) as proof that chemtrails are a real and regular phenomenon. And without that visual evidence, chemtrail believers do not have a very good case.
edit on 12/19/2010 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



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