WWII rifles. Are they still viable?

you can accurize any old gun if you can hold headspace and the rifling isnt shot out. most all the mausers 98 styles can be upgraded by tweaking extractors and rechambering. i once built a 8mm mag from one and it was a badass. but ammo cost more than 338 laupa, so it went bye bye

reply to post by INQUISITION11


Yeah, SA-80, LSW and GPMG (L7A2), the latter two I always ended up at the back with as gunner, the LSW may have only been a glorified SA-80, but by crikey it was heavy after hiking across miles of open country, and the GPMG was heavier, built your muscles

If you can get your mitts on a German Stg44/MP 44 grab one. This beauty paved the way for the AK47 and the assault rifle platform in general. This gun could have changed the war had it been introduced earlier.

Larry Vickers always does it best!!

Originally posted by INQUISITION11
As a cadet 20 years ago our school armoury was full of 303 enfields and Bren Guns fantastic weapons .I remember running across the moors carrying the Bren feeling like my arms were going to fall off.They were replaced with SA80's.I presumed that the old guns would be scrapped, but they weren't they were sent to some 3rd world country to be used by their military apparently still useful.

Many many of those Enfields found their way to the US about 10 years ago.

the mosin nagant is a great rifle. got mine for $75 at a big 5 in ogden,utah. i've been told terminal ballistics are about like a .30-06. i don't know about that, but muzzle velocity and energy are about like the .308. anyways, they are tanks, and you could probably only destroy one by melting it down!! also,i can get 20 rounds for about $6, and 440 for about $96 off the net!!

reply to post by ka47


now all you need is a turned down bolt and a fresh recrown on the barrel and mount a new scope and site her in at 200 yards and ur set

your ballistics are right at 308 or a little better depending on the ammo

Originally posted by jibeho
If you can get your mitts on a German Stg44/MP 44 grab one. This beauty paved the way for the AK47 and the assault rifle platform in general. This gun could have changed the war had it been introduced earlier.

Dude, Stg44's will cost an arm and a leg. Maybe two legs. The AK47 and it's knockoffs are good weapons to use in place of raiding Bobby's college fund for a 44.

sorry "garbage" deleted...

reply to post by JDBlack


You probably won't go wrong with getting an M1 Garand. Reliable design, great and abundant round, and aren't too terribly expensive. I was thinking about buying one, but just haven't committed to it yet.

reply to post by America?

excellent weapon,but too heavy and needs special noisy clips.

buy an fnfal in an inch pattern, you'll be better off

reply to post by aliengenes


That's just mean...

I've taken friends shooting before with some of my more high powered weapons...I was always nice to them..
Sometimes I wish I hadn't been.

reply to post by ka47


You wrote: "posted on 10-12-2010 @ 03:17 PM this post the mosin nagant is a great rifle. got mine for $75 at a big 5 in ogden,utah. i've been told terminal ballistics are about like a .30-06. i don't know about that, but muzzle velocity and energy are about like the .308. anyways, they are tanks, and you could probably only destroy one by melting it down!! also,i can get 20 rounds for about $6, and 440 for about $96 off the net".

The MN Russian is 7.62X54

The .308 is 7.62X51

The SA 30.60 is 7.62X63

You are correct in not believing the "terminal velocity" comparison. They aren't even close.

Here is a site that will give you an appreciation the fine MN in your collection"

7.62x54r.net...

Here is a site to where you can compare the two.

www.reloadbench.com...

Scoutsniper

Originally posted by camaro68ss
yeah for sure, i would say all the Americans are great and still particle. my family is a little bit of a gun collector and we have all guns used in the war on all sides. Ive shot the M1, Thompson i will be shooting soon, and i really want to try the trench shoot gun. i would say they are all great gun except the German lever action rife. this gun is according to some history majors say is why Germany lost the war.

every shot you take you have to re chamber a round and lose your target when doing so. with the M1 you can hone in on your target with every shot

sorry for spelling

No different from a bolt action of today. I'd take a bolt action over a semi auto anyday. But it boils down to preference. Just like I prefer pumps over semi shotguns. The M1 was a fine rifle, and obviously being able to fire more rounds faster is going to give you an advantage

How about a Welrod?

Used across Europe in WW2, and used in Desert Storm.


www.kitsune.addr.com...

reply to post by aliengenes


To AG: you wrote:

"posted on 11-12-2010 @ 01:16 PM this post reply to post by America?

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excellent weapon,but too heavy and needs special noisy clips.

buy an fnfal in an inch pattern, you'll be better off
__________________________________________________________________
Other than for use in "Discretionary Warfare (Covert Operations)" where stealth is critical, rounds from both sides will be "echoing off the rocks". The M-1 clip sound will neither hurt you nor help you. How many people today even know what the M-1 clip ejection sound really sounds like? 8 round clip capacity is about the only disadvantage .

"Suppressed weapons" fall into another line of thought. Perhaps a discussion, concerning weapons of that type, is what is needed here. (Sub sonic ammo etc.) You can always replace the wooden stock on the M-1 with a composite stock, 2-3 lbs. less weight, but a little more "felt" recoil.
Would you be willing to start a thread on that topic?

IT has come to my attention that there are some here at ATS that are not "in the know".

Read this post and reply and you shall see that there is some disinformation floating around.
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
reply to post by PayMeh

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PayMeh Reply: reply to post by Iamherefornow


You wrote:

Also, I'm not worried about stopping power of a 9mm. I think it's more than enough stopping power. I'm more worried about the .223s even with frangible rounds. If you're really worried about the 9mm though, the 1911 .45 has more stopping power than the M1 Garand. I watched old video where they were plinking targets with the Garand then pulled out their 1911 and it spun the target almost fully around.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Shooters Bible 98th edition Page: 499
Listed: top three best energy rounds for that make and model _______________________________________________________
.45 acp Highest impact at Zero range

Weight: Grains: Magtec 185gr JHP
Range: Zero 540 ft. lbs. @ 100 yards 415 ft. lbs.
__________________________________________________________
Shooters Bible 98th edition Page 500

.45 Colt Highest impact at Zero range

Weight grains PMC 300+P+
Range: Zero 1041 ft. lbs. @ 100 yards: Not listed.
___________________________________________________________
Shooters Bible 98th edition Page 500

.45 Winchester Magnum Highest impact at Zero Range

Weight grains Win 260 JHP or Partition "Gold"

Range: Zero 832 ft. lbs. @ 100 yards 616 ft. lbs.
______________________________________________________________


M-1 Garand (30.06)
Shooters Bible 98th edition Page: 477
Listed: top two best energy rounds for that make and model

Weight grains Federal 165 gr. Sierra Game King HE
Range: Zero 3610 ft. lbs. @100 yards 1845 ft. lbs.

Weight grains Federal 165 Tr. bonded HE

Range Zero 3610 ft. lbs. @ 100 yards 1625 ft. lbs.

________________________________________________________________
You wrote:
"the 1911 .45 has more stopping power than the M1 Garand".
Would you care to revise your statement?

Scoutsniper


signature:



Scoutsniper

about the M1,while it is a great weapon, (mine a 1955 H&R) its a bit heavy , kicks too much, (which means you wont practice with it like you should) ,ammo that feeds and reliably operates it isnt cheap or readily avalible every where.yes it will do it all,take care of any "problem" you might have out to 700 yards if you can hit your "problem",spare parts arent easily avalible, or someone who really knows how to work on it.yes most WW2 weapons in good cond will work just fine,they have cost and reliablity issues,for SHTF get a ar-10 in 308, or a ar-15 or a NEW mini 14 in .223,spend the money and get a good one and practice once a month and your good to go.

For self defense and even most hunting situations,there are far better choices available today than most WW2 weapons. However, those WW2 weapons are still great fun to shoot and are totally "viable" in the sense that they will go bang when you pull the trigger. Of course,this assumes they have been reasonably maintained but that goes for any weapon.
The 1911 is still one of the most popular handguns out there today, and nothing else comes close when you start looking at the number of custom parts and accessories for it. It has stood the test of time better than almost any other weapon as far as remaining relevant today.
The Garand is a cool gun and if you can find one for a decent price I wouln't hesitate to pick one up. The 30-06 is a potent and versatile round which is still one of the most popular sportiing cartridges today. It remains the benchmark against which all others are compared to.
The bolt actions rifles of WW2(and WW1 as well) still remain viable weapons to this day, a testament to their design and manufacture. I've owned several SMLE's and have played with the Moisin's a bit too, and they are good,reliable firearms. If you need agun that you can rely on in the most miserable conditions, a bolt gun is hard to beat. Typically they will be more accurate than an automatic as well, thought the AR platform and a few others can be fantastically accurate as well.
For the price you pay for them, many of the military surplus rifles are a great way to go for someone just getting in to firearms. Don't get all caught up in the expensive and fancy stuff right away. Shooting well is not something you will learn overnight,so spend more money on ammo for the first couple years and then you can get some of the fancy toys!

One thing about a M1 Garand. is its reliable.
Plus in close quarters of you run dry it makes a very good club.

Also you can stop a tank with one just stick it in the track. and the M1 is strong enough to cause the track to throw.

Its in the old WW2 training manuals but they don't say what you are going to use for a weapon after you have jammed your in the tank tracks.

if you get a M1 Garand there are a couple mods to make that will make it even better.

M1 GARAND ADJUSTABLE GAS SYSTEM this will let you use rounds with bullet weights to 220 gr without bending the feed rod.
www.brownells.com...=1538/Product/M1_GARAND_ADJUSTABLE_GAS_SYSTEM

And the M1 Garand front aperture sight this will give you longer ranges then the stock front sight.
www.brownells.com...=650/pid=125/sku/M1_Garand_Sight?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c18 7_a_7c745_a_7c034200001_d_034200001_d_3141


www.brownells.com...=24756/Product/MINI_SCOUT_MOUNT
www.brownells.com...=8724/Product/M1_M14_MIL_SPEC_CLEANING_KIT
www.brownells.com...=8745/Product/SEMI_AUTO_RIFLE_RECOIL_PAD

reply to post by xxclaro


Excellent advise for those who are starting to learn. I appreciate your comments.

Scoutsniper

reply to post by madokie


You wrote: "about the M1,while it is a great weapon, (mine a 1955 H&R) its a bit heavy , kicks too much, (which means you wont practice with it like you should) ,ammo that feeds and reliably operates it isnt cheap or readily avalible every where.yes it will do it all,take care of any "problem" you might have out to 700 yards if you can hit your "problem",spare parts arent easily avalible, or someone who really knows how to work on it.yes most WW2 weapons in good cond will work just fine,they have cost and reliablity issues,for SHTF get a ar-10 in 308, or a ar-15 or a NEW mini 14 in .223,spend the money and get a good one and practice once a month and your good to go".

Some of what you stated is true. "Training in a disciplined manner" is vital. Discipline of this kind is reserved for those that are truly serious about protecting their families from the events of today and those into the future. I have read posts about how "heavy" an M-1 is. The term I have seen used at this site (SHTF) is where those that know and those that don't, have the invisible line drawn. At the time the "SHTF", every one that is expecting it should be able to mobilize with any and all necessary gear such as ALICE packs, at least two canteens, extra socks, medical field equipment, communications gear, ammo, knives, rope, binoculars, spotting scopes etc. and the list is almost endless. "Gear" weighs a lot. The weight of the M-1 in comparison to what shall be needed in the field will be negligible. My choice shall be the SOCOM II in .308 due to the weight issue and the excellent fire power that it delivers with great accuracy. (20 round mag.)
Cheaper than Dirt, has been selling scopes for the M-1 in their magazine and "on line". These scopes will allow the shooter to extend his "Iron Sight" distance by a great deal. The "front sight", on the SOCOM, M-14, AR 15, or the M-1 has a tendency to block out a full sized "man" target at about 400 yards. Most "fire fights" are within that range.

The availability of parts is not a problem. Midway USA, Cheaper than Dirt, Graf and Sons, Brownells, etc. offer a huge range of parts for almost any weapon.

When it comes to ammo, may I suggest you load your own. That way your "lot" number remains constant and your zero won't be affected by the loads you made. Reloading your own with the highest degree of accuracy and professionalism will guarantee that your ammo is correctly consistent. Combine that with correct consistency when "placing" your shot, and you will see a very pretty 5 shot 6 inch "group" on the "blue" at 1000 yards.

Scoutsniper