London swarming with protesting students

Originally posted by alienesque

Originally posted by doobydoll

so your saying someone who gets a good degree...and with this a highly paid job...isnt paying more taxes than he would had he not got this degree?

Only because they earn more.

Tax will be calculated in proportion to the earnings. They'll pay no more, and no less than they should pay.

exactly...more pay due to their degree equals more tax due to their degree...they pay more back than they would have otherwise done.

They don't pay more tax than the rest of us in proportion to their earnings, what's wrong with you?

Do you think a lawyer on £100k+ a year should pay the exact same sum that a person on £15k pays?

If the young lawyer wants to pay the exact figure per year in taxes as I pay, so be it, but he'll have to drastically reduce his fees so his earnings match mine. He can't have it all ways - yet. lol

When I get paid, I have barely enough to get through to the next payday, no room for holidays or time-share villas and new cars and a cottage in the country for the weekends. The 'degree-holders' have room for these AND more when they get paid. Maybe they should be made to pay more tax and give the hard-worked low-paid people a break.

But no, let's all give them their degree for free and take less tax off them and teach them to be more greedy and grabbing towards the taxpayers who made it all possible for them.

reply to post by no special characters

It's a simple equation that free education benefits mankind.

Yes but that isnt what's happening here, the students want free education to benefit just themselves after they graduate, not mankind.

Looking at that footage on Sky of all those protesters packed onto the bridge, and that line of police in front of them......just imagine all of them with a V for Vendetta mask on.

CX.

reply to post by alienesque


Alienesque

My earlier rant at you was with the following point of view.....

Why should I, as a tax payer who has NOT benefitted from a University Degree education NOW have to consider paying a HIGHER taxation rate to pay for the students of tomorrow ???

Higher Earning Tax Payers are NOT always Graduates from a University......... that was my point !!

When I listen to 'Students' ? (who seem unable to grasp the basics) suggest that University education should come from General Taxation then I GET MAD.....!!!

I have NOT and Do not benefit from any University Education ( me or my employees) and SO WHY should I pay for them ??

If someone wants to go on to further education then why Can They not '' financially invest'' in their future education, much as an Entrepreneur would ''RISK'' their money on a new venture ????

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

reply to post by CX


would be a awesome photo. 2nd.

reply to post by no special characters


My one question to you No Special Characters is this.....

Do you really believe than ALL students who go to university currently are ALL interested in bettering (is that a word?) mankind ?

The internet is the greatest TOOL for learning but how many of your 'students' use it in a productive way for increasing knowledge ? or maybe they are more interested and / or distracted by trivialities because they are actually not that clever ??

Regards

PDUK

I want to stay neutral on this issue and I utterly condone violence.

However... isn't it great that our students have found their voice again. In the 80s, the UK students had loads of power - often supplementing the picket line for miners strike or anything else that went on. I didn't just think this was healthy but actually a positive part of democracy - out finest intelligencia protesting with all the power that they would be able to muster.

The 90s and 00s were very quite, but its great to see them back on the street.

reply to post by templar knight

I want to stay neutral on this issue and I utterly condone violence.

You condone violence???

I hope that was a mistake lol

Yep people should be passively resistant.

Just imagine what charles would of been thinking.

"Get back you peaseants, your opinions are not worthy, get back". Lol

Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by no special characters

 

It's a simple equation that free education benefits mankind.

Yes but that isnt what's happening here, the students want free education to benefit just themselves after they graduate, not mankind.

Ignorance again. These students who are in university will not be affected by the increase in fees. The majority are protesting for their siblings, their future students, their friends...

Man. I'm really getting tired of mopping up around here. The constant spillage of stupid is enormous!

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
The internet is the greatest TOOL for learning but how many of your 'students' use it in a productive way for increasing knowledge ? or maybe they are more interested and / or distracted by trivialities because they are actually not that clever ??

Now this truly is an ignorant view. At least these kids are active enough to feel passionate about something.
As long as we're making assumptions about whole swathes of people, when was the last time YOU protested about something you believed in?

This fee rise WILL mean that students will be dissuaded from attending university. Unless you have a wealthy background and can already afford it, you loose.

This is another method of creating a two-tiered class system, keeping opportunities for the upper classes and limiting the social mobility of the lower classes.

However you look at this, and whichever set f numbers you look at, it all comes down to that very basic fact.

And when it comes to the tax argument, how about forcing multi-billionaires like Mr Green to actually pay the tax he owes?
Or do you support the coalition government in that too? You think it's okay that he refuses to pay tax while advising our government on how to squeeze cash out of the rest of us?

reply to post by detachedindividual


detachedindividual

I always wondered when we might lock horns ......

Your perspective allows for nothing but your own, already FIXED attitude and you lack the scope of the bigger picture......

Maybe there are TOO many already going to University ??
Maybe we all DON'T need a degree to prove intelligence ??
Is a degree a 'badge of honour' in your world ??

The protests, as I am sure you will be aware are a mechanism for the Dis affected (wether through lack of intelligence or agitation) to cause civil dis-obeidience and make other people's lives hell.... !!! I'm guessing you approve, but maybe I'm wrong !!!

My overall point, (which your convenient edit missed) was this ..................

When I listen to 'Students' ? (who seem unable to grasp the basics) suggest that University education should come from General Taxation then I GET MAD.....!!!

I have NOT and Do not benefit from any University Education ( me or my employees) and SO WHY should I pay for them ??

If someone wants to go on to further education then why Can They not '' financially invest'' in their future education, much as an Entrepreneur would ''RISK'' their money on a new venture ????


Finally.... believe it or not I do agree with you on P.Green... I think that he is the apotheosis of the Greed culture but has become so powerful (like a number of other business leaders) that Governments of any party haven't got the balls to challenge...
PDUK

reply to post by detachedindividual

Man. I'm really getting tired of mopping up around here. The constant spillage of stupid is enormous!

Man, you really ought to get over yourself.

The rise in tuition fees only applies to English students. There will be no increases for Welsh students and as already pointed out, the Scots remain tuition fee free. Debts acrued by future English students will not be interest free. Who benefits?

The NUS was active and vocal throughout the 70's and 80's when university education was still free and the direct grant system was in place. Other than the secondary picketing rules, I've never really understood why or how the NUS were subdued with Thatcher's Trade Union Act and Employment Acts of the 1980's.

The politicians who first introduced and then increased university tuition fees all benefited from free tuition. Their children can benefit from university education without recourse to shouldering government sanctioned secondary taxation by the financial institutions charged with managing the student loan system. I am glad to see the blood of the English raised in ire against the elitist agenda to further extract the sweat of the worker, educated or otherwise, to protect and increase the privilages of the few.

Salaries for new graduates lucky enough to find jobs will be inadequate to meet the cost of servicing their student debts. The cost of living in Britain is extortionate and disproportionately rising compared to Bank of England base rate. Corporate interests, including government, will grow fat on those who will have to borrow to meet day to day living expenses. Talk about systemic slavery!

It is encouraging to see these young people who are the living proof that despite the deliberate dumbing down of children's education, the bombardments of mindless 'reality' entertainment in the media and celebrity culture, still have their critical faculties intact. They protest for all of us even if the trigger was how government policy will impact on their lives and those of their peers.

If one hair on any of their heads are harmed, then as far as I am concerned, those MP's that voted aye, can go to hell.

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK


The world owes you nothing, YOU have to take RESPONSIBILITY and get on with it.....

Ok and fine ... but

Stop taxing the crap out of people, on the pretext you are going to provide free education... then carry on taxing the crap out of people whilst asking them to pay for their education.

Not the people's fault you decided to waste our taxes on bailing out a load of bankers, and now expect the people to pay that debt as well.

I agree with the principle of you pay your own way... The trouble is people have... FOR GENERATIONS!!... Those kids' parents (and this country) paid more tax (directly and indirectly) than pretty much any other country in Europe except possible some of the Scandinavian countries.

We pay taxes on our fuel that would have our American cousins screaming blue murder and reaching for their guns

We pay so much tax on our alcohol and cigarettes that people take daytrips over to France to stock up and still spend a fraction of what they would over here.

We pay taxes till we literally resemble a corpse after a pack of vampires has been at it.

We do this so our government provides healthcare, education, pensions, and everything else they use as an excuse to Tax us.

The reason people are getting so hacked off to the point of violence is because we bailed out a whole bunch of Hooray Henries who were 'too big to fail'. Now, those same Hooray Henries are telling our governments that we are spending too much money (go figure), and our government is either cutting services we paid for, or asking people to pay for them again.

We don't get 'free' education or healthcare, contrary to what most Americans think... We pay taxes to have them provided when we need them. We don't pay those taxes to have our government bail out all those 'too big to fail' establishments!!

reply to post by Dagar


Spot on my good man, so well put!!!
I stopped paying my taxes three yrs ago, Im sure it will catch up with me and Ill be seeing the inside of a cell block, but Ill be doing it my way.

If you actually read the Lord's report on this, no one making less than L20,000 per year will have to pay any tuition at all. the report suggests only 40% of students will actually pay back their tuition. Even those who do pay will be making very affordable payments, as low as L7 per month. In other words, those students who do wind up in good jobs and can afford to pay back their tuition will. Those who don't won't.

The whole idea is to improve the quality of education. With a statutory limit on tuition, according to this Lord, the quality of UK school education is slipping. They see themselves as slipping in quality and want to put mor emoney into education as a whole while ensuring that everyone has a chance to attend.

Well, if you are in a socialist country you are entitled to everything and responsible for nothing. And for this they are rioting. Pathetic.

Originally posted by chukka
Met Police spokesman stating this is:

"An act of terror against the innocent shoppers and citizens of London..."

How long before the T-word was bandied about... Tasteless!

edit on 9/12/10 by chukka because: Poor spelling

Yep they only used the word there, here they'd draw and quarter ya or if you're lucky they'll just waterboard you and send you to guantanamo.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Any brits on? Whats your take on it?

As a former 'foreign student', I had to pay through my nose for a British university education, suffering poverty and a succession of awful making-ends-meet jobs, while my fellow-students who were UK nationals received grants from the State and had a much easier time of it.

I never resented this, though. It seems to me that free education to university level is a great thing if a State can afford it. I also think graduating from university with a huge debt one has to work years to pay off is not the best and most hopeful start in life to give a young person.

As long as the UK can afford free university education, it should be (and was) available.

The trouble is, the UK can't afford it any more. University education keeps getting more and more expensive, and a lot more people are going to university these days.

At some point, unfortunately, students or their families have to take up the financial slack. That is what's happening now. Even with the proposed cuts, university education will still be subsidized, I believe, by your government; they just aren't paying for the whole thing any more.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK

Why should I, as a tax payer who has NOT benefitted from a University Degree education NOW have to consider paying a HIGHER taxation rate to pay for the students of tomorrow ???

When I listen to 'Students'... suggest that University education should come from General Taxation then I GET MAD.....!!!

I have NOT and Do not benefit from any University Education ( me or my employees) and SO WHY should I pay for them ??

This is, I'm sorry to say, a selfish, short-sighted I'm-all-right-Jack sort of argument.

You haven't benefited from a university degree? Fiddlesticks. You have benefited from thousands, no, tens of thousands of university degrees. Every university graduate who helped build the rich, largely fair, largely secure, highly advanced society you live in, who helped create the infrastructure that helps generate the wealth you earn at whatever it is you are so proud of doing, whose inventions, such as radar and the codebreaking miracles performed by the boffins at Bletchley, protected you from Hitler and all the other threats Britain has survived through history--you owe them and their university degrees far more than you will ever be able to pay back. And if you have children or believe in a future, it is the university students of today who will design and largely create that future for them and for you.

That is why it is perfectly okay for university education, not just undergraduate but also postgraduate education to postdoctoral level and beyond, including lifetime state support for the most gifted, to be funded out of general taxation. It is an investment in society, and what you pay towards it is repaid you in heaping measure.

Dammit, you people even reap the benefit of university degrees you don't pay for. Educated citizens of poor countries like mine emigrate in droves to rich ones like yours--sometimes after receiving scholarships or state aid from their home countries to fund their studies abroad. Open your eyes, stop complaining and be grateful.