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posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by kix
So now we are getting atmosphere on the moon and mars? ..... I wonder if they are preparing us for the inevitable, that in our same solar system there are habitable planets.


Always has been atmosphere on Mars.. and the Skies are Blue
True Color Images from Mars Rovers ArMaP and I finally came to an agreement to use 'real' color not 'true' color
Real being as we see it


As to atmosphere on the Moon... NASA has always said there was... it was only the AMOUNT that was in question

NASA says...
Moon Storms
science.nasa.gov...
Moon Fountains (sunset rays)
science.nasa.gov...

But NASA recently announced they found Arsenic based life in Mono Lake in California. Few people noticed that one of the main team members is a molecular biologist also on the Titan Project (Jupiter's Moon Titan)

NASA is crafty you have to pay attention to what they don't say sometimes

edit on 9-12-2010 by zorgon because: ArMaP didn't do it this time




posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by antibren
but wheres the Alien&UFO?
Are you implying any unnatural hand in this???


Nah... just so used to being in this forum I forgot to change forums... I am sure someone will move it eventually. it was 2 am when I finally put this together


Originally posted by the_denv Either way, the only way it could harm us, is maybe just by altering cosmic energies, in layman terms; your Star Sign will be wrong



If there is anything at all to cosmic energy connections, and I strongly believe there is, then yeah... it might explain why we are messed up. Might also explain the notion of us being in 'quarantine' as many believe, including Ingo Swan.
edit on 9-12-2010 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
I saw the Oroborus...the serpent. Isn't it possible that the ancients knew something we are just now
being made aware of? Maybe the 2012 predictions of the Maya have a lot to do with the precursor
incidents that are happening on the other planets in our system at this time.


One of the links in my material does cover on the 2012 Mayan date, and yeah I saw the serpent as well. Also interesting was the interest in this of the Millenium Group...

Their are ancient Native traditions that recall a time when the Earth had no moon... there are ancient legends of previous collisions with other planets... the Nibiru invented by Sitchin evolved from one such old tale...

NASA has shown us there are many planets, or dwarf planets in our solar system, not to mention all kinds of space debris (rocks comets etc) Ceres is a small dwarf planet in the asteroid belt... Eris with Moon Dsynomia is larger than Pluto and was the reason Pluto was down graded to a planetoid. Here are a few of them



NASA also tells us we may have a companion star 'Nemisis'. I know this will stir up shades of Nibiru again
but what can we do when NASA says it? I left out links with Nibiru


Getting WISE About Nemesis




Is our Sun part of a binary star system? An unseen companion star, nicknamed “Nemesis,” may be sending comets towards Earth. If Nemesis exists, NASA’s new WISE telescope should be able to spot it.


www.astrobio.net...

The Nemesis Star
imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Cool brown dwarf may be a new found neighbor of the sun
Scientific American

So with all that stuff floating around in the oort cloud we may have collected all that junk while swooping in on our new home.

Also Venus also rotates in the opposite direction to the other planets and Uranus has a strange spin, it rotates on it's side, indicating that at some point their positions were altered.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Whether this galaxy, another galaxy or simply a wandering solar system caught up in the mess, here's another website that talks about how our early ancestors saw the events of our smaller solar system becoming part of the larger solar system in which we currently reside: www.thunderbolts.info... --> see actual science being done to explain how we got here, what likely happened only about 5-10k years ago, and where we're headed.

The sun we know today is not the sun our ancestors knew. The events our ancestors spoke of in their early accounts (worldwide) was of disasters and planetary battles so destructive that their sun went away in favor of this one. All of it wrapped nicely around an electrical model of the universe (predictable model) instead of a gravity-driven model (that fails miserably).

I think our little solar system found itself in the electrical field of another, and we are now in a solar system that was not meant to be in any other way.

Good thread. Let's keep a clear head as we find science to back up these claims!



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by GhostLancer
For, when we find tools and artefacts where they shouldn't be (in rock strata of impossibly ancient age), we ask why they're there, how they got there and who made them so long ago. This indicates, to me, that this age, our age, is not the first age of man, but probably the hundredth age, and that every time we reach a certain level of progress, we have been pummeled by rogue planets crashing through our system, rogue stars, comets and asteroids.


The Tibetan Buddhists... who trace their origins to the Bonn and the Zhang Zhung Empire and the Legendary Shambhala, then in turn way back to Persia/Iran...in their records and traditions they consider this, our current age to be the fifth age of Man. They too have a detailed tale of planetary collisions. Been meaning to put that one to a thread but its very hard to find documents on the Zhang Zhung Empire and related works because the Chinese destroyed a lot of old scrolls. They have now stopped and are into preserving these but a lot was destroyed. There is also a story of an ancient grave in China that had tall white people, dated BEFORE the Chineese. They made the area into their Nuke test site (which is actually how I found the reference because the cave was still intact
)

Kinda explains all our legends of Atlantis, Lemuria and other lost civilizations... Even the Bible has stories, though the chronology is wrong... "The sun stopped in the heavens" "the Flood". Might be just memories passed down from survivors of previous catastrophes

These stories fill all our ancient legends and religious works, in all countries of the world.... hard to dismiss it all as 'myth'



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT
Hi Zorgon, great post and star and flag from me.Just one question that is bugging me, how can all those stars be moving within the galaxy like our sun, and remain in patterns that are seemingly unchanged over thousands of years of observation?


Because of the vast distances between them. The closest star to us is Alpha Centauri and that take 4.2 years for LIGHT to get there. Even though you sitting in your chair right now are traveling roughly 574,585 MPH... the distances involved are so vast it seems the galaxy moves in slow motion.

69,361 MPH Spin and Orbit
43,200 MPH Towards Lambda Herculis
15,624 MPH Perpendicular to Galactic Plane
446,400 MPH Orbiting the Galactic Center {or Galactic Spin Rate}
-------------------
574,585 MPH Speed of Earth within Our Galaxy

But they do change... the position of Orion has been used to date the Great Pyramid to an earlier time than Archaeologists claim. Its just that in the life span of humans, nothing seems to change much


Originally posted by JordanTwind
How can people know where the earth solar system is from
Milky way may not even be milky inside


We call it science
As to the "Milk"


The name is from the Greek root galaxias [γαλαξίας], meaning "milky," a reference to the milky way galaxy. They referred to it as "milky" because of the faint white appearance on the night sky. It looks like spilled milk. There are a number of ancient legends where milk is involved in its creation.

Read more: wiki.answers.com...
edit on 9-12-2010 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner
You all can believe what you want. I'm just presenting information. Take it or leave it..


Your theory does not explain why our solar system is bobbing up and down across the plane of the Galaxy by 250 light years either side of center...

Quoting Bad Astronomy as a source doesn't help much really as he earns his living debunking. In case you hadn't noticed, ATS explores alternative view points to 'normal' science. And as has been pointed out, and backed by history... every time we think we know something, the Universe tosses a monkey wrench into things.

Our 'bobbing' motion, our solar systems orientation and the angle of the Sagittarius streamer all point to other possible interpretations.



Did you notice that the movement actually goes "up and down" and doesn't continue in the same direction as you would expect it to if it was part of the Sag DEF?


yep... that is because the Milky Way's influence is playing tug of war
I would imagine eventually that the boobing would decrease as we settle in to our new home's orbit

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." Sir Arthur C Clarke

He also said...
"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

edit on 10-12-2010 by zorgon because: Classified



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 12:24 AM
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in a sence that explains quite alot such as the richness off life and fantasies/"memories" which
brougth you cosmic battles of zitchin type interpetation and cosmic watches of the south americans,

while you are born on earth the material you are made from has journeyed aeons across the ´vers, .

but then again it raises questions about how life starts out in the universe,
do galaxies need to "mate" like sagitarius and milkyway before a creature is born ?



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Perseus Apex

Was going to ask what those videos had to do with this then saw this...



Never noticed that before... Thanks for the link





posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by GhostLancer
For, when we find tools and artefacts where they shouldn't be (in rock strata of impossibly ancient age), we ask why they're there, how they got there and who made them so long ago. This indicates, to me, that this age, our age, is not the first age of man, but probably the hundredth age, and that every time we reach a certain level of progress, we have been pummeled by rogue planets crashing through our system, rogue stars, comets and asteroids.


The Tibetan Buddhists... who trace their origins to the Bonn and the Zhang Zhung Empire and the Legendary Shambhala, then in turn way back to Persia/Iran...in their records and traditions they consider this, our current age to be the fifth age of Man. They too have a detailed tale of planetary collisions. Been meaning to put that one to a thread but its very hard to find documents on the Zhang Zhung Empire and related works because the Chinese destroyed a lot of old scrolls. They have now stopped and are into preserving these but a lot was destroyed. There is also a story of an ancient grave in China that had tall white people, dated BEFORE the Chineese. They made the area into their Nuke test site (which is actually how I found the reference because the cave was still intact
)

Kinda explains all our legends of Atlantis, Lemuria and other lost civilizations... Even the Bible has stories, though the chronology is wrong... "The sun stopped in the heavens" "the Flood". Might be just memories passed down from survivors of previous catastrophes

These stories fill all our ancient legends and religious works, in all countries of the world.... hard to dismiss it all as 'myth'

Very true. It's "funny" how the diverse research of scientists from varied fields tends to come together in certain discussions. Graham Hancock has done a lot of work about ancient civilizations predating current scientific dogma. An Egyptologist (Shostack (sp)?) has proven that the Great Sphinx has suffered *water* erosion. Michael Cremo (author of FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY) illustrates numerous examples of out-of-place artifacts. Ancient texts tell of enormous calamity and the fall of civilizations... Richard Hoagland focuses attention on strange artifacts in our solar system (Saturn's moon Iapetus, the "head" found on the moon, glass structures on the moon (the "shard," etc.). Etc. Now there are anomalies on Mars, the Jupiter System, outer planets, Venus... Hexagonal clouds on the polar regions of Saturn...

This is a very interesting INTERSECTION of astronomy, cosmology, geology, archaeology and ancient texts. --And other subjects.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 01:56 AM
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Just a thought.

We are shown as being in the boon docks, in the big scheme of things. Looking at the pictures, I started to ponder what it could possibly be like closer to the center?

I mean, one picture even depicted the center as a red, fairly large area.

No wonder we think we are the only ones out there. Could you imagine looking to the heavens and seeing many heavenly bodies close at hand...kind of like being in Beijing....from a human body perspective...wall to wall.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 03:24 AM
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I enjoyed reading this thread. I am very interested in space and this has given me something to look into more. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 




Well current scientists have always been puzzled why the Milky Way is on an angle, and we are moving perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy... in fact currently we are 50 light years out and will move out to 250 light years above the galactic plane before we 'bob' back down.


Using the quote (above) in your opening post of the thread, could it be at all possible that as earth moves out 250 light years above the galactic plane it will enter the new transition that people speak about when they talk about 2012?

Thankyou for sharing this information here with us Z good threads have been hard to find as late.
edit on 10-12-2010 by franspeakfree because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by win 52.from a human body perspective...wall to wall.


Like this one... so many stars you can hardly see individual ones. Click on the picture for the full 2.8 meg version




Our whole planet is but a speck of dust, a momentary spark in the scheme of things

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Enjoy your humbleness
edit on 10-12-2010 by zorgon because: Why? WHY must this be filled out? Makes NO SENSE! WHO REALLY CARES?




posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Hi I'm a fairly new member and I'm from Belgium so excuse me if my English isn't that great...
I' enjoyed your writings and you seem to me someone who knows quite alot about the universe. Today I came across a short clip about some object moving in front of the sun. Any thought on the subject?

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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S&F

Awesome read, and I never post I just read.

I just had to say I enjoyed this.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 04:00 AM
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Does this study account for the metallicity of the Sagittarious Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy, which like most such galaxies, is low (according to wikipedia)? Generally, much smaller galaxies, such as dwarf galaxies, are very metal poor - which is to say they lack very much in elements heavier than hydrogen and helium. Such galaxies are currently thought to be poor candidates for developing too many rocky worlds, like our own, much less have enough variety and abundance of other elements to produce life. If that's the case, and we are right about that, then they will have to account for how our particular star/solar system managed to have enough of these things to form our world and us.

Did we just get very, very lucky and happened to form in an unusually metals rich portion of the dwarf galaxy? That would be quite something!
edit on 12/10/2010 by LifeInDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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Thanks for this very fascinating, informative and well-researched thread Zorgon.

S + F from me.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by A por uvas
Can something just beam me out of this neighborhood of galaxies to a safer more peaceful area in the universe..
Please,


Of course..

Let me punch the coordinates. ...There is a cool paradise planet with few inhabitants ..Working on it now.
Opening terminal ...Punching in the settings

Oops.. we believe that something went wrong..

Seems half of you is orbiting around Nexus-X2345B while the other half landed safely somewhere around X-567 galactic cluster.

We hope you have clone insurance... Have a nice day.
edit on 10-12-2010 by spacebot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Crayfish
 

The term 'rubbish' doesn't sound very scientific to me.

No disrespect but how valid is this debunking?


"Rubbish" is a term that scientists will sometimes use when they are presented with a hypothesis that has no supporting evidence. The only evidence that we are part of the Sag Dwarf galaxy is that we happen to be close to where the stars from that galaxy cross our galactic plane. That's quite a big coincidence but it would be an even bigger coincidence to be in the plane of the Milky Way if we did truly originate from the Sag Dwarf galaxy.

Every other piece of evidence that we have suggests that our star is a normal main sequence star that is a natural part of the Milky Way galaxy. Our star orbits the galactic centre which would be almost impossible to happen if we were from the Sag dwarf galaxy. The "wobble" in our orbit that takes us up to 230LY from the galactic plane is given as evidence that our orbit is strange, but our galaxy is 100,000LY across, that oscillation is relatively small. Do you know that none of the other stars all around us do not display exactly the same oscillation?

The Sag Dwarf galaxy stream crosses our galactic plane at nearly 90 degrees, did our sun just stop and do a 90 degree turn at the point where it crossed the plane of the Milky Way? Or is it more likely that it has always been orbiting the Milky Way? The OP makes much of the fact that we are moving upwards at 90deg to the galactic plane at 4.34 miles per second. What this fails to mention is that this is a speed measured in relation to the rest of the galaxy. Our orbital speed around the galaxy is approximately 137 miles per second. That "wobble" looks a lot less remarkable when you are given all of the data.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If this was not an extraordinary claim it would not be featured on this site.

Unfortunately there is little valid evidence to back up the claims here. We live in a metal rich system when the stars in the Sag dwarf galaxy are metal poor. What evidence has been presented is sometimes critically flawed. The OP offers a photo of the Milky Way slanted in the night sky as evidence that we are "off the galactic plane". Just think about that for a moment. Do you think that the lattitude of the observer and the tilt of the Earth has no effect on that angle?

Unless the debunking article can itself be debunked there is no reason to take the claims of the OP at face value any more than that of the debunker. The difference is that our accepted belief that we live near a normal star in the Milky Way is the simplest and most likely truth.
edit on 10-12-2010 by Crayfish because: (no reason given)





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