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ANON Has Shut Down My Business--Paypal Related

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posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Is PayPal privately owned or a listed company.

Because if it is listed I would love to be at their next AGM when the shareholders turn up with the pitchforks and petrol. Nothing gets people angrier than some dumb ass screwing up the profits.


It's owned by Google.

~Keeper


google??

Huh??

It's been owned by ebay for years.


Yep.. thats true. I was around when it launched selling things on ebay.. medical supplies and original art.
The big discussions and conspiracies back then were to the effect of Ebay monopolizing the market.. owned the venue and the payment gateway! They offered more security to the buyer and put the seller under the gun basically. WIth the launch of PP it changed the whole landscape of that particular venue.

ANyway.. yeah, Ebay owns PP..




posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Lysergic
 


You are right about that.

I'm effectively loosing thousands of dollars of business an hour because of these clowns.

~Keeper


Paypal just switched off wikileaks - they could just turn your site off as well.

J Assange was not convicted - he is the face of wikileaks, but others probably rely on its income, he didnt do anything to them - and your loyalty is with Paypal?

Stop using Paypal - they are the problem - not ANON - if they can just arbitrarily switch off someone, why do they deserve your business?

I hope ANON keeps up the attacks to the point where everyone using Paypal tries to find an alternative.
edit on 9-12-2010 by Amagnon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by Amagnon

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Lysergic
 


You are right about that.

I'm effectively loosing thousands of dollars of business an hour because of these clowns.

~Keeper


Paypal just switched off wikileaks - they could just turn your site off as well.

J Assange was not convicted - he is the face of wikileaks, but others probably rely on its income, he didnt do anything to them - and your loyalty is with Paypal?

Stop using Paypal - they are the problem - not ANON - if they can just arbitrarily switch off someone, why do they deserve your business?

I hope ANON keeps up the attacks to the point where everyone using Paypal tries to find an alternative.
edit on 9-12-2010 by Amagnon because: (no reason given)


In reality, PP refused to allow their service to be used to transfer money to a place that they were notified by the Feds that was under investigation for possible illegal activity and possible prosecution. They were avoiding legal issues by not allowing themselves to be used and brought into the mess. I have no love for PP.. having dealt with them for too long.. but this isnt a hard thing to understand as to why they chose to do this. Smart move for a business not to open themselves up to more trouble. If there is an investigation and/or prosecution.. it will have been cheaper in the long run to discontinue allowing anyone to use them as a way to transfer funds to wiki than have to pay legal fees.
As Ive said, this little drama with Anon has served no one well but the people so many here are opposed to. This drama can also be used to erode your freedom of speech and net neutrality. It was foolhardy, not well thought out, and the timing was really bad. Besides, anyone that does more than play games online and go to forums already knows that the whole bot farming and scripting is childs play when its applied this way and especially at this time. Now others who can actually make some headway will have to clean up the kiddies messes and jump through new hoops due to anon's poorly thought out actions to accomplish anything. Anon was being vengeful.. and it has not helped any of us one bit. WHat they have claimed in their open letter is not truthful.. their motivations or their projected outcome.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 

call it "practice" ... with less than 1500 cables released and considering All the uproar, from every direction already, IMHO, plenty has been accomplished ... even if You don't see it. Often in life, we are not privy to a view of the outcome during the process. Should you choose to focus on the process rather manipulate an outcome, often the process grows beyond initial intent or imagination ... that is a wonder of life. Kudos to Anon for having the guts to follow-through and focus on the present rather anticipate, guess or proclaim knowledge of an unforeseen, untold or yet to be determined outcome.

Yes, those who ignore or deny history are destined to repeat it ... however, in this case, history is being written not repeated ... the final outcome shall be determined by those willing to sacrifice the most to achieve it. (historical fact) Do keep in mind, that sacrifice i mention is personal not Constitutional.
Those willing to sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither. (paraphrased from several Founding Fathers)



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


So you don't think that pressure led to them just releasing Wiki's money? Paypal has released all funds... What has changed since they froze it? n-o-t-h-i-n-g!



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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They're reporting on the news that a 15 year old in the Netherlands has been arrested for DDoS against PayPal.

www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Advantage
 

call it "practice" ... with less than 1500 cables released and considering All the uproar, from every direction already, IMHO, plenty has been accomplished ... even if You don't see it. Often in life, we are not privy to a view of the outcome during the process. Should you choose to focus on the process rather manipulate an outcome, often the process grows beyond initial intent or imagination ... that is a wonder of life. Kudos to Anon for having the guts to follow-through and focus on the present rather anticipate, guess or proclaim knowledge of an unforeseen, untold or yet to be determined outcome.

Yes, those who ignore or deny history are destined to repeat it ... however, in this case, history is being written not repeated ... the final outcome shall be determined by those willing to sacrifice the most to achieve it. (historical fact) Do keep in mind, that sacrifice i mention is personal not Constitutional.
Those willing to sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither. (paraphrased from several Founding Fathers)


Yes yes.. Franklin said it and it doesnt even apply to this.

There are ways to accomplish things. There are things going on that Im sure YOU dont know. Things that ANon screwed up by their childish rash actions.. they did nothing that my 11 yr old couldnt do. This is NOT hacking. It is NOT a true disruption of service. It has NO impact on the businesses other than to keep them in the news. You can bet with this impotent little jab the businesses have learned well and no more infiltrations will happen. They shot everyone who actually COULD do something real and not engage in "kiddie play time" bs in the foot. I can assure you that there is no praise for these goofballs among the real hacker crowd... they understand the implications.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by Advantage
 


So you don't think that pressure led to them just releasing Wiki's money? Paypal has released all funds... What has changed since they froze it? n-o-t-h-i-n-g!


Was it finds already in the process??
Nope, nothing has hapened any different. So wiki gets a few bucks. Paypal released some money. What exactly does that have to do with freedom of speech and all of the other issues involved with what Wiki is involved in? WHere is this big accomplishment?

BTW.. that didnt JUST happen .. its being discussed on the PP board and has been for a bit now.
edit on 9-12-2010 by Advantage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

Paypal has released the money to WikiLeaks.

Any links for this?

reply to post by Advantage
 


Normally I would blast any leaking of classified documents, but these are not to do with troop movements, plans for where submarines will be or anything like that - they are more to do with how various countries really conduct business behind closed doors, and shine a light on what is really going on.

I agree with you that people need to be careful that they aren't being played, but I can't see who would gain from these leaks so far.

If control of the 'net is it, I'm sure they've had ample time to do that by now. Keeping it open is actually more beneficial to them, as much as that seems counter-intuitive.

If there is an ulterior motive to WikiLeaks, I can't see it yet...
edit on 9-12-2010 by mirageofdeceit because: (no reason given)


ummm, i'll try this ... (still learning) ... but if the link doesn't work, i found this story on digg.com
digg.com...
hope that helps ... but i saw similar stories on GLP and neowin.net -- nothing mentioned on a msm outlet, yet.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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I havent seen any confirmation either.. been discussed for the better part of 2 hours so far on the PP board. Im assuming that it was concerning funds already in the process that was put on hold by PP and not new transfers. Im sure it will come out in the end



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


Concede to my point then point out the deficiency in the effects? Really?

All I was saying is, they caved to the pressure. Instead of dragging this out as long as they could. They assesed the situation, and decided it was best to release the funds.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by Advantage
 


Concede to my point then point out the deficiency in the effects? Really?

All I was saying is, they caved to the pressure. Instead of dragging this out as long as they could. They assesed the situation, and decided it was best to release the funds.

Concede?? Are you over 18??
I DO believe you are taking your forum discussions a little too much to heart if you demand someone concede to your OPINION.

Nothing to concede to yet in any case. We do not even know if it was already funds inthe process or new funds. Besides, have you actually read Anons mission statement/manifesto? This accomplished nothing of their goal. Paypal has a nasty habit of holding funds and not releasing them immediately.. btw. When they hold in escrow they get more interest paid.. its "free" money in their pocket and not yours. Id NOT put it past pPal to have done exactly this with the wiki funds.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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Good grief.. Paypal are such double speakers. LOL! Yep.. its what I thought. They froze the acct and then only released the money that was already there before the freeze. They have not indicated they will stop the block on WIki as of yet.

“While the account will remain restricted, PayPal will release all remaining funds in the account to the foundation that was raising funds for WikiLeaks.”


Id LOOOVE to see just how much was in the account that was obviously held in escrow and just how much money PPal made free and clear by holding Wikis money they were absolutely entitled to since it was raised before the restriction.

edit on 9-12-2010 by Advantage because: (no reason given)



You see when they hold it in escrow it is in their OWN interest bearing account. An organization raised money for wiki. It was put into that orgs account through PP which is actually Ppals owned account and that money is ont he books to be transfered to WIki. For however long that money was sitting it accrued interest. They accrue interest on these ungodly sums pf money from their own holding bank and it truly is free and clear money made off of this directly in PP pockets. It was the only way at the start that they didnt have to charge fees that other places were charging. Its how they are one of the TOP internet commerce gateways. Incredible really. Plus, if you think that other financial institutions are any better... better get out in the real world once in a while.

edit on 9-12-2010 by Advantage because: clarify on PP operations



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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Where is the report where it says the average age of "ANON" were "kids"?
I have a hard time believing kids are responsible, and if it were kids that are able to take down a mainstream payment method service i surely question the extent of safety they offer to their clients, that is managed by ebay, a world known icon. not to mention visa and others



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Advantage
 

call it "practice" ... with less than 1500 cables released and considering All the uproar, from every direction already, IMHO, plenty has been accomplished ... even if You don't see it. Often in life, we are not privy to a view of the outcome during the process. Should you choose to focus on the process rather manipulate an outcome, often the process grows beyond initial intent or imagination ... that is a wonder of life. Kudos to Anon for having the guts to follow-through and focus on the present rather anticipate, guess or proclaim knowledge of an unforeseen, untold or yet to be determined outcome.

Yes, those who ignore or deny history are destined to repeat it ... however, in this case, history is being written not repeated ... the final outcome shall be determined by those willing to sacrifice the most to achieve it. (historical fact) Do keep in mind, that sacrifice i mention is personal not Constitutional.
Those willing to sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither. (paraphrased from several Founding Fathers)


Yes yes.. Franklin said it and it doesnt even apply to this.

There are ways to accomplish things. There are things going on that Im sure YOU dont know. Things that ANon screwed up by their childish rash actions.. they did nothing that my 11 yr old couldnt do. This is NOT hacking. It is NOT a true disruption of service. It has NO impact on the businesses other than to keep them in the news. You can bet with this impotent little jab the businesses have learned well and no more infiltrations will happen. They shot everyone who actually COULD do something real and not engage in "kiddie play time" bs in the foot. I can assure you that there is no praise for these goofballs among the real hacker crowd... they understand the implications.

actually, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madison, Lincoln and others have spoken a version of those exact words at one point or another ... exact wording or not, the gist doesn't change ... and, how can you be soooooo myopic to say it has nothing to do with this ?? are you serious or just trolling?

hmmmm, internet freedom vs internet security ... diplomatic freedom vs diplomatic security ... freedom of speech vs censorship ... freedom vs TSA ... nope, don't see a single correlation there at all ... yep, you're right, just a ruse all along.

You may be right, you may be wrong ... do you know who i am ???? nah, didn't think so ... so, what's makes you think you know anyThing about my knowledge or lack thereof?
I never said Anon hacked a dang thing ... a few others did. I never insinuated this action was supposed to be more than a warning ... a few others did. Also, i never indicated in any way, shape or form that i was part of or had knowledge about the hacker crowd ... i may have graduated with a few of them but short of that, i'm about two generations outta the game. as for the 'professional hackers vs Anon' ... why divide and conquer? that would certainly be the TpTb method ... not free thinkers, as most are.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by mari0
Where is the report where it says the average age of "ANON" were "kids"?
I have a hard time believing kids are responsible, and if it were kids that are able to take down a mainstream payment method service i surely question the extent of safety they offer to their clients, that is managed by ebay, a world known icon. not to mention visa and others




Seriously, thats the tragedy. They USED children that wanted to be freedom fighters. It angers me.. as my kids are of that kind. They WANT to do right, but have a hard time seeing exactly who pulls the strings. I asked my middle daughter to explain to me a few things and how to farm bots. She knew.. she is 11. The kids now.. our faults.. are very very computer savvy.. and this stuff honestly isnt that difficult. Specifically when the scripts used by these children were given to them by the adults who liked to pretend they were super hackers to impress the children. If you only knew how the hacker community was speaking right now.. ya might buy these script jokeys a bullet proof vest or 2.. maybe set up a Ppal account for donations.
WHen it started to get around that it was kids that were being used.. well the hackers were burning up the lines.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Advantage
 

call it "practice" ... with less than 1500 cables released and considering All the uproar, from every direction already, IMHO, plenty has been accomplished ... even if You don't see it. Often in life, we are not privy to a view of the outcome during the process. Should you choose to focus on the process rather manipulate an outcome, often the process grows beyond initial intent or imagination ... that is a wonder of life. Kudos to Anon for having the guts to follow-through and focus on the present rather anticipate, guess or proclaim knowledge of an unforeseen, untold or yet to be determined outcome.

Yes, those who ignore or deny history are destined to repeat it ... however, in this case, history is being written not repeated ... the final outcome shall be determined by those willing to sacrifice the most to achieve it. (historical fact) Do keep in mind, that sacrifice i mention is personal not Constitutional.
Those willing to sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither. (paraphrased from several Founding Fathers)


Yes yes.. Franklin said it and it doesnt even apply to this.

There are ways to accomplish things. There are things going on that Im sure YOU dont know. Things that ANon screwed up by their childish rash actions.. they did nothing that my 11 yr old couldnt do. This is NOT hacking. It is NOT a true disruption of service. It has NO impact on the businesses other than to keep them in the news. You can bet with this impotent little jab the businesses have learned well and no more infiltrations will happen. They shot everyone who actually COULD do something real and not engage in "kiddie play time" bs in the foot. I can assure you that there is no praise for these goofballs among the real hacker crowd... they understand the implications.

actually, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madison, Lincoln and others have spoken a version of those exact words at one point or another ... exact wording or not, the gist doesn't change ... and, how can you be soooooo myopic to say it has nothing to do with this ?? are you serious or just trolling?

hmmmm, internet freedom vs internet security ... diplomatic freedom vs diplomatic security ... freedom of speech vs censorship ... freedom vs TSA ... nope, don't see a single correlation there at all ... yep, you're right, just a ruse all along.

You may be right, you may be wrong ... do you know who i am ???? nah, didn't think so ... so, what's makes you think you know anyThing about my knowledge or lack thereof?
I never said Anon hacked a dang thing ... a few others did. I never insinuated this action was supposed to be more than a warning ... a few others did. Also, i never indicated in any way, shape or form that i was part of or had knowledge about the hacker crowd ... i may have graduated with a few of them but short of that, i'm about two generations outta the game. as for the 'professional hackers vs Anon' ... why divide and conquer? that would certainly be the TpTb method ... not free thinkers, as most are.


Have fun here on ATS. Be sure to call anyone who has an opinion that is contrary to yours a troll.. better yet call them disinfo.. youll get along great!



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by mari0
Where is the report where it says the average age of "ANON" were "kids"?
I have a hard time believing kids are responsible, and if it were kids that are able to take down a mainstream payment method service i surely question the extent of safety they offer to their clients, that is managed by ebay, a world known icon. not to mention visa and others



Technology doesn't care for the age of the user.

Kids are as capable of bringing down internet based systems as a 40 year old with a Ph.D in Computer Science.

The reality is that internet systems are not as resilient as people would like to believe. If you throw enough data at something, you can take any system offline. The key is the volume of data; all a DDoS is, is basically flooding a connection with so much data that legitimate requests can't get through.
edit on 9-12-2010 by mirageofdeceit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

Originally posted by mari0
Where is the report where it says the average age of "ANON" were "kids"?
I have a hard time believing kids are responsible, and if it were kids that are able to take down a mainstream payment method service i surely question the extent of safety they offer to their clients, that is managed by ebay, a world known icon. not to mention visa and others



Technology doesn't care for the age of the user.

Kids are as capable of bringing down internet based systems as a 40 year old with a Ph.D in Computer Science.

The reality is that internet systems are not as resilient as people would like to believe. If you throw enough data at something, you can take any system offline.


I just learned today that TOR isnt safe either... Id thought that TOR was about as safe as you could get as far as proxies the last time I checked. Proxies are infiltrated.. youre tracked and voila.. newest news story on the tabloid cable news.


Of course I have NO idea if this is how it went.. but just read it so take it with a grain of salt. This anon group got together and within the community of script kiddies are a lot of kids. The scripts were given out and adults as well as kids used proxies to bombard.. of course there was bot farming and the other junk. Then the 3 top places that people were saying they had donated to were targeted. People were tracked back by their proxies and arrests have been made, are being made, and more are forthcoming. Attack on a private business or a financial institution in particular is a big no no.... info about anon is being given to the feds by the folks who have been busted here in the US. The younger kids are giving information as they are in a position to not have their lives destroyed... plus, technically.. the parents own the internet access and are the ones that the feds pinged in the first place. If any of this is true, I imagine there are some parents out there facing some pretty hefty fines and urging the kids to roll.

Of course.. again.. take it with a grain of salt.. its rumor... it will all come out in the wash eventually on this one.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by mirageofdeceit
 


Yeah I have a background on I.T. so I know what is required but the people that organized the scripts are probably not children and that's the cause of it

I'm 25 and I have done some DoS and been DoS'd.

it's not a terrible sign to see young ones at 11 into almost political things, when I was younger and did anything of the sort was to piss off my friends. perhaps in a few years they will understand what they do which i don't totally agree or disagree

I wish I had any political interest at 11 or anything of the sort, for me it only started at 17ish. I was too busy playing games than being even a "freedom fighter"

the only downside to this, it will push for more government control of the internet..

it's a good thing we still have encryption after that happens.

ps when I say almost political meaning some of them probably will look into the reason they do or did something at some point and realize how corrupt our government is compare that with most baby boomers that to this day still think the government is there to offer a great deal of protection and are not corrupt.



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