There Is NO Original Sin!!!

Am I against Christianity? No.
Am I against God? No.
I am against the disunity religion has created.
I am against condemning each other to death with the sword or eternal Fire for having different beliefs.
I am against close mindedness.
I am against the belief that being a good person and loving our fellow humans is not good enough.
I am against doctrine and dogma having trump over common sense and unity. True human unity.
I am against the I am right, you are wrong, you are going to hell mentality.
This thread is intended to bring true human unity, not destroy faith.

God is pretty clear that we bear our own sins, and do not bear the sins of our fathers.

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Deuteronomy 24:16

"But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."
Jeremiah 31:30

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
Ezekiel 18:20

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour."
1 Corinthians 3:8

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."
Galatians 6:7-9

Children are not saturated in Original Sin, because Jesus said;

"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14

reply to post by Sahabi


From your own mouth." I am against the I am right, you are wrong, you are going to hell mentality." With your glaring contradiction i can only laugh at this post. To me it would seem that you think all wars are created by religion which would be wrong and that without religion people wouldn't fight which yet again i think you have over simplified human nature in general. If you really believe people are animals then you would know even animals fight over things. They don't have money or religion. What you are so desperately trying to knock down is the notion that people are more then their base desires and needs which religion has been trying to teach for years but like everything pure with time it can be twisted into something else to suit the needs of people who have ulterior motives. Even a nerf football shot out of a cannon can kill you if you stand to close. So i don't think your real problem is with religion its with corruption but you are attacking religion so you are miss guiding your anger at the wrong thing.

reply to post by Sahabi



Technically I would say that I AM against christianity - since I am not for it. I have seen many, many instances where people at the end of their rope turned to it to give them guidance and help - only to find out that there is nor miracle cure for their ills. I do not believe that the majority of church-goers are evil, or malevolent. I deal with christians every single day and I treat them as fairly as I would anyone else. Which is pretty good, btw.
I'm no more against god than I am unicorns. I've no quarrels with pixies, never had a spat with a gnome, and have never cheated a werewolf out of anything.
My point (imo) is that we have to stop believing in the imaginary and start believing in ourselves. If we always are led to believe that we are weak, powerless and worthless - then what are we to think of ourselves? How can you ever unite a group of people that has no faith in themselves? It wasn't until I believed I was worth something that I ever amounted to anything. That didn't come through prayer, faith, or belief in a deity - it came through faith in myself, and belief that I WASN'T as worthless and frail as I had been told my whole life in the churches.
It's not going to start with a god sending a bolt of light from the heavens and burning a message into the ground for us to read, it starts with us taking action and doing what we can. How many times have prayers been spoken for god to feed the hungry when we've ample extra food in our pantries? How many times have we seen the homeless huddled together for warmth on bitter winter nights and prayed that they can at least find warmth when we've a closet full of old sweaters we haven't worn in years?
If it takes faith in a god for you to believe you have to take action - why aren't you taking action?
Why does anyone have the right to complain about the condition of the world when they sit back and do absolutely nothing about it?
I have lived in a level of poverty and drug addiction that most of you would not be able to fathom. If it weren't for the kind hearts of the few (very few....very, very few) people who cared enough about me to help me rebuild my life I would most likely not be here anymore, dead of either an overdose - or by my own hand. I tell you this, because I know what it is like to have nothing - and I know how far a little can be stretched when need be. Religion has never helped. Anytime it was involved in any aspect of my life - things fell apart. Faith in a religion will not save us. Faith in a seemingly blind and deaf god will not save us either.
How many times must you flip a light switch before you realize the bulb is blown, or either the power is off? One? Twenty? Five hundred?

I cannot realistically see how humankind can ever unite when religion has such a tight grip on so many people's minds and hearts. Blind faith makes no sense when there has never been any reason for it, other than the admonition that you should have it.
As far as the comment about sons not bearing the sins of their fathers.....eh....no, I do not believe that is correct. I believe the bible does say that we were born into sin, which came from adam. So we sinned by just being born.

reply to post by Sahabi

There Is NO Original Sin!!

And I suppose there is not sickness or death, either?
Of course there is so how do you explain it?

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by Sahabi

 

So i don't think your real problem is with religion its with corruption but you are attacking religion so you are miss guiding your anger at the wrong thing.

My real problem is religion. I'm all for spirituality, being a better person, human unity, and appreciation for existence.

My problem is the religions teach intolerance. Haha, I never thought I'd hear myself saying that!!!

Live and let live. Why all of the condescending, fear-mongering, or condemnation to eternal fire? That's not love or unity.

I believe knocking down a couple ideological pillars will shake foundations enough to make some people step back and consider what love, mercy, acceptance, and human unity is really about.

reply to post by sykickvision


Wow. Thanks for sharing.
I hope the past you described stays as the past, and your present and future are nothing but better.
With you religion didn't work, so you had to look within yourself.
But for some people religion is their cure. For others it may be philosophy, or Wicca, or any other conceptual understanding.

I believe the key to human unity is for everyone to realize spirituality, belief, understanding, and truth are all relative. Be a Christian but don't condemn others to hell. Be a Muslim, but don't kill innocent non-believers. Be an atheist but don't insult religious people as idiots. Practice meditation, conscious awareness, and creative energy, but don't look down on others. See what I'm saying?

My point (imo) is that we have to stop believing in the imaginary and start believing in ourselves.

Good point.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Sahabi

 

There Is NO Original Sin!!

And I suppose there is not sickness or death, either?
Of course there is so how do you explain it?

Sin is overstepping religious and/or societal rules.
We are born innocent, pure at heart.
During childhood we observe and experience existence.
Our experiences, families, societies, exposure, environment, and many other factors contribute to our understandings of right and wrong. Sin and Righteousness.
Everything in childhood is learning, understanding, and conceptualizing life.
When our brains develop past childhood we reach a stage of accountability... knowledge of good and evil.
For the rest of our lives sin is a choice.
We can choose to murder or not.
We can choose to adulter or not.
This is what Free Will provides us; the choice of good or sin.

reply to post by Sahabi
That's conventional thinking, it seems to me, what you are doing, and I have heard that enough times before from people thinking they are coming from different perspectives.
Maybe the second convention.
The first convention being, we have a curse thanks to original sin. That explanation in my opinion got a little warped by the Catholic Church. They would baptize a child, then theoretically, that child goes into the state that you explained, so, you both end up in the same place.
The protestant view is that Adam and Eve had free choice and once they chose to disobey God, there was only limited choice within narrow parameters. Martin Luther called this the bondage of the will.

reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

Who was the first one that sin came up in and then what happened that Adam and Eve then took sin up and then what has it done? All then born later where born with the propensity to sin. A weakened nature and easily overcome by evil. Adam and Eve did not have a weakened nature and one can see even then Satan overcame, decieved a third part of the Holy angels and unfallen Adam and Eve. They all were to choose between good and evil and were well adapted to not fall into it. We are adapted to fall is why we need the indwelling Spirit of our Redeemer or we are no match for the battle. Freedom and Love is what it is all about.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


Adam was created by God's hand [figuratively].
All the serpent did was make a vocal suggestion.
The serpent did not re-create Adam.
This tells me God created Adam and mankind with the potential to sin.
Sin only needed a suggestion to be realized.

So we have an All Knowing, All Powerful God that created Adam with his own hands [figuratively].
Did He not know that He created the potential of sin in His humans?
Why create sin potential in us and wait centuries upon centuries to fix the design flaw by sending Jesus?

If all are saturated in sin and need Jesus to bail us out, why did god save Noah?
What will become of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, Aaron, Moses, Solomon, etc.?
God's chosen prophets, no Jesus to save them, are they going to hell?
Why did these prophets not preach redemption from original sin through a savior?
All indications say reap what you sow, all bear their own sins.

What became of Adam? Karma. Karma for angering god got him kicked out of the garden.
Reap what you sow.
He was still allowed domain over earth, and to multiply his seed.
In the New Testament Adam is even called God's son even though he sinned!

Luke 3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus, born of a virgin mother by the grace of god.
Jesus is free from original sin, but original sin exists?
Mary was descended from the prophetic lineage of Israel.
In her blood is the blood of all peoples, stretching back to Adam.
So Jesus is free from original sin?
So there is no such thing as mitochondrial DNA?
Jesus does not have the blood of Adam flowing in his veins?
If yes, Jesus is saturated with original sin!
If no, there is no original sin!


But you are not addressing the Biblical verses in my OP.
God said we bear our own sin.
How are we saved from sin if we bear our own sin, and reap what we sow, etc.? No soul shall be put to death for another's inequity.
Then Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those like children.

reply to post by Sahabi

God's chosen prophets, no Jesus to save them, are they going to hell?

Jesus prior to his birth on Earth, in whatever god form he was in, listened to the prayers of those men when they asked for forgiveness for their sins. They did not understand all the details of the mechanism but understood that God was taking the burden upon Himself to lighten it from them.
Back in the time of Able, it was understood that a life had to be made forfeit for forgiveness. They again did not understand the full implications of that concept. We do now because the reality of it was shown for all to see in the death of Jesus.

There Is NO Original Sin!!!

I don't know about all that I've been doing some cleverly calamitous campaigns currently.

reply to post by Sahabi

Jesus does not have the blood of Adam flowing in his veins?

That's an important question.
One explanation might be that when they sinned, God set it up so that the curse of death was laid squarely on Adam though the main problem may have come about through Eve. I think God made the man more responsible since it could be that the command was never given directly from God to her to not eat from that tree.
The thing that we think of as the curse to Eve in Genesis 3:16 was about her having to have the subservient role, in order to not have so much blame laid on her. The question may be, Did Jesus sin? And if so, how could he save us? While suffering all the physical frailties of being a sin affected human, not having an actual biological father who was a son of Adam may have freed him somewhat from having to be punished himself for any sin that he himself never committed.
This is a hard question to answer and one I have been involved with for the last couple years. I am yet to feel satisfied with any answer I've run across or thought up myself. But I have been able to weed out a few bad options.

reply to post by Sahabi
Sahabi,

I will make a reply to one of the questions you pose --

"What will become of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, Aaron, Moses, Solomon, etc.?"

They knew of the coming Redeemer whose blood would pay for their sin as the blood of animals could never suffice. I will just give you two verses and let this go. The Blood of God only could suffice.. They looked forward to this time and all those things pointed to it. We look back to it and He presents His blood for them and us as He ministers in the TRUE Sanctuary in Heaven. That was a type of the True in their day. I had stated before the new testament is a fulfillment of the old.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Another verse that predicted Jesus. He will bruise Satan's head and Satan but bruised His heel at the cross as it had to be that way.

Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

All the redeemed of earth are bought with His blood.

Truthiron.