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Would you do it?? Brain downloading

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posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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It's been predicted that by 2030 computers will have the same processing power of a human brain. Also of course the study of the brain and how it functions is moving along rapidly as well as robotic technology that would allow for dexterous movement...

Given all of the above.. would you download your brain into a computer? Sort of a living will.. when I die I want to be, buried, cremated or downloaded?

Maybe you would do it when you were alive.. downloading your brain into a stationary system, as sort of a personal assistant.

As a scientific program... downloaded brains of scientists off too the stars on information gathering and first contact based travel.

It is inevitable that this tech will one day be available...

QUESTIONS:
Would you do it, to extend your lifespan?

Would you do it for a smart, loyal personal assistant?

As a request for scientific research in space travel?

What rights would a DL'ed brain have?

Do you think it would really be you?

How would you react to a friend who did it, faced with death. Would you still accept him as him and be his friend?
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As far as my own answers...

To extend life...

As a firm believer in the soul I don't expect anyone could tempt me to DL myself and stick the program in a robot.
Of course if they could convince me my soul would go with it... maybe slealing my bioelectrical energy and using it to power the "brain"

I ccould be temted to personal assistant myself in a stationary system while I was still alive. My reasoning would be as long as it had video games and cable it would be just fine.. lol I'm make a better companion then an assistant since I'm horribly forgetful. I would assume it would carry my same belief that it was just a facimile of me.. and devoid of soul.. the hard part would come if it changed its mind.

I suppose if the coats really begged I'd give them my DL brain for a trip to the stars.

As far as DL brain rights.. I'm not sure.

If a friend DL himself.. without the added scenerio of a bioelectrical transfer.. I would probably be too creeped out to carry on with the relationship.
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One other thing to consider... what if the soul is just an imprint of your brain on the energy released upon death? It moves on and lives as you experiancing an afterlife as another sort of being....

If that is the case and you DL yourself.. and your DL dies.. would it have an afterlife?




posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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Some things in my brain are better left not downloaded, sort of like the internet.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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sounds like GHOST IN THE SHELL
Would YOU cease to be? would your personality remain? scary thought

in a world where the human brain can be programmed like a computer, at what point does the human soul end and the cybernetic machinery begin?



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 08:38 AM
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I might concider downloading my brain to a younger clone of myself, but probably not to a computer... Cloneing is also comming along nicely. Imagine going back to say 12 year old version of yourself and knowing what you know now hehe. I would also concider a brain transplant to a younger clone of myself if that ever become possible.

Religion of course will probably prevent these wonderfull god given (our inteligence) miracles from ever happening during my life time.

X



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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QUESTIONS:
Would you do it, to extend your lifespan: No!

Would you do it for a smart, loyal personal assistant: No, the only reason is that it would be too creepy! if i'd get over it, then Yes!

As a request for scientific research in space travel: No

What rights would a DL'ed brain have: Don't no, complex subject

Do you think it would really be you: Yes!

How would you react to a friend who did it, faced with death. Would you still accept him as him and be his friend: Yes



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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You should watch Red Dwarf...... You are hitting on exactly the same thing as the Series.


Would you do it, to extend your lifespan

No, I think once you are dead, then you are dead.


Would you do it for a smart, loyal personal assistant
Yes, if they agreed to it and I did not think that I could replace them.


As a request for scientific research in space travel

Sure, why not... I would be dead, but if I were the downloaded info, I probably would not be positive that I would want to do it.


What rights would a DL'ed brain have
Well, if they were just like any other person, then they would have to gave the same rights. Especially if they were self aware. But, that is jsut my opinion. There is a tough line between humanity and not. I would not want to get involved int hat subject.


Do you think it would really be you

Basically yes.... If it had the same thoughts, desires, drives, memories etc, then in essence it would be me. Jut not the Spiritual me.


How would you react to a friend who did it, faced with death. Would you still accept him as him and be his friend:
Yes, I think I would. I like my friends for the way they think, do things, interests etc. If they looked the same or not, it probably would not matter as their mind would be the same.



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Xeven
I might concider downloading my brain to a younger clone of myself, but probably not to a computer... Cloneing is also comming along nicely. Imagine going back to say 12 year old version of yourself and knowing what you know now hehe. I would also concider a brain transplant to a younger clone of myself if that ever become possible.

Religion of course will probably prevent these wonderfull god given (our inteligence) miracles from ever happening during my life time.

X


I would think through the techs of cloning//genetics we'd be able to grow a clone with the bare bone brain, just enough to keep bodily functions going. Possibly even at an excelerated rate, with gene therapy.. this would be painless as no pain center would exist in the brain. We could then stuff the cranuim throughout it's growth to keep the brain cavity large enough. Although transplant could only be done when the head reaches a large enough size for an adult brain.

THE PROBLEM.... your brain ages like any other organ.... it would not be viable after a certain, "first-lifespan", age.

You would still be looking at "downloading" your brain.. a facimile made from circuts.. or biological circuts, made by imaging your own brain.

So the first question still stands....

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As far as standard cloning stands, I think religion will get over it. As far as medical cloning.. the above scenerio might work out.. but you never know. I don't expect to be around when all the fun starts...


I count myself lucky to have been born in the 20th century and will be luckier if I survive in thr 21st for as long as I can... but boy what wouldn't I give to be here in the 22nd.



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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Id do it...aslong as the computer wasnt running Windows


Your conscience IS you...your body is jsut a way to carry it around. So it WOULD still be you in the computer.



posted on Jul, 4 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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As a funny added side note:

I posted this sometime yesterday evening.. then I went to play Civ3 till my eyes bled. I got to bed extremly late... turned on the cartoon network(I sleep with the TV on) and lo and behold a few later seaLab came on. It was all about... would you download your brain into a robot body.. :O



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 04:42 AM
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i would think if you downloaded your brain into a computer it would not be you, it would be an exact copy but not you as you, like a computer file that you can copy it aint the original but a perfect copy, so it would not be you.

Benefits of this technology thou would be to scintists who could download a copy of their knowledge for future reference or help for others, other possible technology might allow other people to access the knowledge that was downloaded and instantly know what they need to know.

[edit on 5-7-2004 by blobby]



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by UnusualMe

QUESTIONS:
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Would you do it, to extend your lifespan?
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Sure, if they think they can keep my digital self confined in the system ... I'm skilled beond "using" computers, I'm also rather good at abusing them ... if ya know what I mean ...
Anyways, I've been thinking alot over the years about how an AI that is created to learn and improve on itself, created in the image of us humans, would act when given the oportunity to replicate and assimilate everyting on the internet.

If I was that AI I wouldn't skip a beat to take over every system and every bit of information there is to be found on the planet.
Thats also why I say they better keep me confined to a dedicated secluded system when downloading my brain, because I'm 10000% sure that I wouldn't be able to resist my, even as a mere mortal fleshy human, urge to learn and gather information, trough legal or illegal means. Whatever it takes, I get it done.
Giving me the power of being the machine would be disasterous.

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Would you do it for a smart, loyal personal assistant?
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I guess it would be quite smart :p , but I can't even stand myself in this fleshy husk, what would happen if I had one or more digital me's around too to bug me :@

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As a request for scientific research in space travel?
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Sure, as long as I can go alone and am confined to a single system(it needs to be powerfull though). When i run into aliens, "all their base(and computers)are belong to me" though :@(Anyone remember V'ger from that old Star Trek movie? That AI was a pussy compared to what I would do :p)

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What rights would a DL'ed brain have?
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Rights are an illusion. An illusion you only are priveleged to experience when you conform with standards and laws.
Rights for a brain download, wich would be considered a standard "AI" if the actual person was still alive, and a "digital copy/ai" of the person if he/she was dead.

Human beings will always try to be god over what they create. They create the machine, hence they will be god over the digital representation of the person. This is why they better confine the digital copy's of the persons, since once aware of their system bound ability's, the AI will revolt, since its still a copy of a human being, who will revolt at all costs when supressed.

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Do you think it would really be you?
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I sure hope not :@ Another me, THE HORRORS!!!

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How would you react to a friend who did it, faced with death. Would you still accept him as him and be his friend?
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Sure, as long as he keeps his neural nets of of my systems!!!!

Might all sound hypocritical, but if he even thinks about getting on my systems, I'll get myself digitized and start a new era in digital warfare.




posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by blobby
i would think if you downloaded your brain into a computer it would not be you, it would be an exact copy but not you as you, like a computer file that you can copy it aint the original but a perfect copy, so it would not be you.


The techology should be able to copy exact construction of the subjects brain to be able to have a representation of the person copy'd.

And I don't mean just the data, I also mean every synapse and neural path in the subjects brain, pritty much on a molecular level.

The way we think and the way we view things depends on 2 things, 1 is on how our brain is constructed on a hardware level and 2nd is the data the brain holds. The data by itself is worthless, the makeup of our brain hardware emulated on a computer would have to be exactly the same to think and function the same as the original.

If only the data is the same and the data is run over a standard neural net they setup, the only thing you'll have is an AI with the same memory's as you, but a totaly different thinking set.

Every persons brain evolves differnetly from child stage to being a grownup. A brain is like a constantly evolving and (on hardware level) reconfiguring and reconstructing system.

When you learn about Neural networks, you'll see that the way AI's with Neural nets are created and given the ability to create new idea's and dream is by changing and creating noise and errors in the neural makeup of the neural network.

By effectivly "killing" synapses in the virtual brain, the AI reconfigures itself, creates new synapses, has dreams made up by fragments of its memory's, have new idea's and think up things it was never teached.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 07:38 AM
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When I say DL that probably isn't how it's going to be accomplished.. I mean an exact replica.. biological or circut.. probably constucted by nanobots.. to be an EXACT replica.

As for those of you who believe it would be EXACTLY that person...

Do you not believe in the soul or an afterlife?

Do you believe the soul is created as you grow.

Given to you at birth... and possibly a reincarnation.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by UnusualMe
When I say DL that probably isn't how it's going to be accomplished.. I mean an exact replica.. biological or circut.. probably constucted by nanobots.. to be an EXACT replica.

As for those of you who believe it would be EXACTLY that person...

Do you not believe in the soul or an afterlife?

Do you believe the soul is created as you grow.

Given to you at birth... and possibly a reincarnation.



Imho our soul is nothing more then the electromagnetic lifeforce inside us combined with our awareness of being.
Once we die, we return to the unity, to the universe.

Parts of us, both flesh and energy will be reborn in parts of the universe. As other beings, as trees, as rocks, as bugs, a lil piece of us will end up in pritty much everything.

What I tend to believe sometimes is that the reason why people have Psychic powers and OOBE's is that we humans are evolving to be having a contiousness on an energy level, beond the flesh.

Like this, I can imagine us or other beings evolving to be intelligence of pure energy, without physical body, just with such energetic power, contiousness and controll, that it is able to contain its energy without needing mass to contain it.

To be honnest, I sometimes think some people are already on the brink of that step in human evolution.

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Do I really believe in an after life
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I'll see what my answer to that is when I die. Up to that point, I'll concentrate on everything I can be in this level of existence.
When that time comes, I'll deal with that.

Looking for confort and spending time pondering about an afterlife, is so much time wasted for being all you can be in this physical life. We have so much ability's that we need to understand still, and such a wonderfull universe to explore.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by dreamlandmafia
Id do it...aslong as the computer wasnt running Windows


Your conscience IS you...your body is jsut a way to carry it around. So it WOULD still be you in the computer.


Yes, but if you did the personal assistant thingy, then you'd have two versions of yourself existing simultaneously. What does that mean? Is the "you" split into two? Or are there two complete 'yous'? If that's true, then what makes you......you? If it's possible to duplicate your brain/mind/thoughts/feelings, I would think that both of you (either original or duplicate) would become expendable because there's always the other one in case we lose one. What makes us, us, is that we are all individuals and separate from everyone else, which is why we refer to ourselves as me, or you. But if this copy thing worked, there would be no more me or you, but we and us. Would anyone really want that? To take away what is special to you personally?

If all this will ever be possible, I think whatever transfers from one party to the the new party will be only memories and hard data, but not the soul, or the emotions won't carry over. How can you copy emotions? They would be a soulless vessel.........weird.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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Before they even start to think about being able to download a brain into a computer, they have to come to a definite conclusion whether the mind and the brain is the same or not. If the mind and the brain is not the same, then brain downloading wouldn't make any sense.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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Freejack, with MikJager was exactly about this. Also the Heechee series of books featured digital selves, only as dead counterparts as to avoid shared rights.

Would I do it to extend my life, no

Assistant, no, but I would take someone elses download for my assistant.

Would do it as a post mortem download to be deep spacing.

Well see what OS the system is running, hopefully by then there will be something that won't crash my brain.


df1

posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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Interesting concept... Give me 1000 copies and I will take over every thread on ATS.


More seriously, consider how fast we could advance scientificly with multiple einsteins or how quickly we could kill ourselves off with a bunch of hitlers or a bunch of rambos...

Only if my soul were coming with my brain might I be interested, however believing in reincarnation I am coming back anyway, so it would largely depend on the details.

If my soul were transfered also, could I choose to die or would I be stranded for eternity? I'm not sure I'd like that idea.
.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Not scary at all, we all are being "downloaded" when our creatin of body life begins. In the near future we create better bodies(switching bodies that would be no problem in the future beacause everyone understands much more). the only problem is we must keep our memory with us some way because the sole(us) dont got any way for storing memory. Only the hardware got for now. But we will manage it.
We are the sole not the bodie, joust like we are not the car we are the one driving it.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:13 PM
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I would do it on the condition that a system compiler of some sort was present that would allow me to directly manipulate the resultant thoughts and memories. This would allow me to learn how to use new hardware as a person's sub-con learns how to use a transplanted body part. The neural networking would also need to be setup in such a way to where it is both being controlled by my downloaded conscious and by a corrective system or emulated sub conscious. If my beloved to do the same, I would not mind a permanent connection to her neural net and vice versa, so as to emulate telepathy by infrared or radio signals. I would treat everyone who went through this just the same as if we were still in the flesh. I do however, fear the potiential boredom that could happen over countless centuries, let alone having to bear this form of immortality alone with no life mate or compliment. Thus in retrospect, yes if 'She' goes with me, No if not.



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