Monsanto - Bayer Engineering Death: Bees, Bats and You?

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posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Slayer,

I want to thank you for this thread.

As a Caver I have a special place in my heart for bats, and as a farmer one for bees.

I have been aware of the problem with both but have focused my attention on the "Food Safety Farce" brought to Congress by our friends Monsanto.


To everyone, put up a bat house and help a bat.

My friends up north that I used to cave with have this site on white nose disease in bats. www.necaveconservancy.org...

Please visit their web site. (hint)




posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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OK Slayer, you got me.

This article from Discover is relevant I think.

Jeff Pettis: “We obviously think it’s more complicated than we first believed as in we don’t believe that we’re looking for a single virulent pathogen, although that can’t totally be ruled out. At first we were thinking that we’d find a single causative agent, a virulent pathogen sweeping through the bee population, and that doesn’t appear to be the case.”

So what's causing the die offs?

Pettis says it's looking more and more like there are several factors working in tandem to kill off the bees. They've found that colonies with CCD have an abundance of bacteria, viruses and a specific fungal disease, but none of these items alone can be singled out as the cause


Looks as if they are stumped as to the cause.

Jeff Pettis is with the USDA, Agricultural Reasearch Service. Apparently this is worrying enough they are getting more funding.

An article from the USDA.

Pesticides

Some people believe that pesticides, especially a relatively new class called neonicotinoids, are responsible for CCD, though there is no conclusive data on this yet. France banned the neonicotinoid imidacloprid in 2005, when some field studies indicated some possible harm to bees, though other studies showed no such effects. And there has been no across-the-board recovery in honey bee populations in France since the ban.


I see lots of theories but no proofs. Real answers could be years away.

It seems to me often people jump to hard conclusions based on their personal feelings and that ain't science. I also think theories and conclusions often are made to stimulate funding. So, do we have companies like Monsanto risking killing off the Bee's for financial gain and control; maybe? Do we have researchers throwing ideas at a wall to see if they stick to acquire funding; maybe?

This reminds me of Politics in that you simply don't know who to believe or who is distorting facts due to personal bias.

Look at some of the issues here. Without Pesticides and the resistant crops, the price of food goes up, the supply decreases and unavoidably the poorest in the world bear the weight of that as they starve to death.

If this is killing the Bees, pollination can't happen by normal means, food prices go up, the supply decreases and people starve.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The USDA which has the best resources for research does not have any answers. People who have personal agenda's and biases claim they do have answers but can provide no proof through studies done in an acceptable manner. Who do you go with? The biased people with an agenda or the real science taking place in qualified labs by qualified individuals?

Kind of a see-saw is it not? Either side could have reason to mislead?

If this is related to the Bats, you solve one, you solve the other and all efforts could go towards solving the Bee dilemma. If they are not related then it's absolutely critical they be researched separately. Again a dilemma.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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Excellent thread, Slayer.
S + F



Don't forget to factor in the electrosmog into the equation. Microwave radiation exposure has increased dramatically over the last decade. We now know the electro smog combines with the chemical pollutants to multiply the detrimental effects of each. I think the key thing to keep in mind is the time frame. What exactly has changed from ~1994-current. GM foods being widespread in supermarkets is certainly one of them. Cell phone towers popping up everywhere, and millions of new subscribers is certainly another.



edit on 8-12-2010 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



WELL DONE. S&F

I've bookmarked this thread to make sure I get back to it.
(bump)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
We now know the electro smog combines with the chemical pollutants to multiply the detrimental effects of each.


Interesting. I'd love to see a link to the study? Do "we know" (implying its a proven fact) or is it a guess without any supporting studies?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


It's been known for decades, actually. Studies were done a long time ago. I'll look for some links for you.

Well, for the moment I'm only finding indirect correlations. Strange, several years ago this information was easy to find on the internet. It seems like the studies may have been buried to some extent. I'll keep checking.

Here's some that show microwave radiation decreases nutrient content in various foods. Of course, being malnourished would increase the negative effects of toxicity. If you don't have the proper nutrients to make the necessary reducing agents ... those chemicals will bio-accumulate rather than be excreted.

*
*


Here's a good link that talks about a lot of the detrimental effects of Electrosm og

Most important to note:




Your body is a complex communication device where cells “talk”, tissues “talk,” organs “talk,” and organisms “talk[1].” At each of these levels, the communication includes finely tuned bio-electrical transmitters and receivers, which are tuned like tuning into a radio station. What happens when you expose a radio antenna to a significant amount of external noise? You get static from the noise – and that is what is happening to your body in today’s electrosmog environment. Two of the more well-known biologicals impacts from electrosmog are the interruption of the brain wave pattern[2] leading to behavior issues[3] and the interference to your body’s entire communication system (cytoskeleton)[4] leading to abnormal neurological function, such as dementia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia. At a cellular level, your cell membrane receptors (the brain of the cell) recognize electromagnetic fields at very low levels of exposure producing a stress response similar to that produced by exposure to heavy metals or toxic chemicals.[5] This can cause the cell membrane to go from an “active” or permeable state where it allows nutrients in and toxins out, to an “inactive” state where the cell membrane is impermeable. During a normal day, your cells will change states thousands of time, but when under constant environmental stress, the membranes can be locked in the inactive state. This is often referred to as “oxidative stress” as nutrients are able to enter into the cell, while toxins (free radicals) are not allowed to leave. There is also real evidence that this inactive state can even have geno-toxic effects, meaning electrosmog is toxic by both damaging DNA and preventing your body from repairing DNA, which can be the first step to cancer.


I'll keep searching!
edit on 8-12-2010 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


It's been known for decades, actually. Studies were done a long time ago. I'll look for some links for you.


Thank you. I'm really interested in that. I'll do some searching also.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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I have no love for Monsanto BUT:
Bats fly and feed at night
Bees fly and feed during the day.
I think it's safe to say the bats are not eating the bees.
That doesn't mean that the bats aren't eating some insect that are coming into contact with pesticides or GMO crops, possibly moths.
Mosquitoes and gnats are also consumed in abundance.

Cell phones towers and other forms of electromagnetic pollution may play a part in CCD, disorienting the bees so that they cannot find the way home. On very cloudy days bees navigate solely on EM patterns. Our love of cell phones may be our undoing, literally talking ourselves to death by starvation.

I think you're on the right track however Slayer, we KNOW GMO crops and pesticides are causing adverse reactions in nature. The trouble is nailing down which is causing what..

Not being much on Chemistry, this is one subject I have had to leave to others to figure out. I do pay close attention to nature and have a very good understanding of biology and botany but genetic splicing and chemical codes make my brain go blank.

I cannot blame the farmers for any of this, they have been pushed along by government and big agribusiness into their current practices. To keep the family farm they have had to join the mutant revolution.

I don't care what X-men movies say, I say kill all the mutants before they kill us.
I wonder if that propaganda is intentional to help us accept mutations?

It won't be long before this science finds its way into the human body.
Once that happens, God help us.
The Aryan race may have designer genes, instead of designer jeans.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


That's just it...

We don't know, Nobody knows for sure how manipulating genes that has taken {God/Mother nature} millions of years to create and perfect will impact the world.

The phrase {playing with fire} comes to mind

edit on 8-12-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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What a joke.
Substantial equivalence

Substantial equivalence is a concept, developed by OECD in 1991, that maintains that a novel food (for example, genetically modified foods) should be considered the same as and as safe as a conventional food if it demonstrates the same characteristics and composition as the conventional food. Substantial equivalence is important from a regulatory point of view. If a novel food is substantially equivalent to its conventional counterpart, then it could be covered by the same regulatory framework as a conventional food.[1]

The concept is used to determine whether a new food shares similar health and nutritional characteristics with an existing, familiar food with an established history of safe use.


edit on 8-12-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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"Dooms day Seed Vault" in the Arctic Bill Gates, Rockefeller and the GMO giants know something we don’t



In 2006 when most people in such a situation might think of retiring to a quiet Pacific island, Bill Gates decided to devote his energies to his Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the world’s largest ‘transparent’ private foundation as it says, with a whopping $34.6 billion endowment and a legal necessity to spend $1.5 billion a year on charitable projects around the world to maintain its tax free charitable status. A gift from friend and business associate, mega-investor Warren Buffett in 2006, of some $30 billion worth of shares in Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway put the Gates’ foundation into the league where it spends almost the amount of the entire annual budget of the United Nations’ World Health Organization.

So when Bill Gates decides through the Gates Foundation to invest some $30 million of their hard earned money in a project, it is worth looking at.

No project is more interesting at the moment than a curious project in one of the world’s most remote spots, Svalbard. Bill Gates is investing millions in a seed bank on the Barents Sea near the Arctic Ocean, some 1,100 kilometers from the North Pole. Svalbard is a barren piece of rock claimed by Norway and ceded in 1925 by international treaty

On this God-forsaken island Bill Gates is investing tens of his millions along with the Rockefeller Foundation, Monsanto Corporation, Syngenta Foundation and the Government of Norway, among others, in what is called the ‘doomsday seed bank.’ Officially the project is named the Svalbard Global Seed Vault on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen, part of the Svalbard island group.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Looks as if they are stumped as to the cause. Jeff Pettis is with the USDA, Agricultural Reasearch Service. Apparently this is worrying enough they are getting more funding.


I would not trust the USDA to tell me the sky is blue. Remember the Corporate/government Revolving door???

www.sourcewatch.org...
www.psrast.org...

After John Munsell's story and Efforts of Food inspectors to highlight problems with HACCP were ignored by USDA management This was despite over 1000 non-compliance reports – weighing some 16 pounds -- were turned over in response to Freedom of Information Act requests. In fact Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals, was placed on disciplinary investigation status by the USDA. The USDA even contacted the USDA Office of Inspector General about filing criminal charges. ALL because he would not turn over the names of his union members from whom he received reports that SRM regulations are not uniformly enforced.

To put it bluntly the USDA, FDA and Congress are well aware that people are dying of food borne illness because of the international HAACP regs put in place in 1996 Not only do they ignore that, they also ignored John Munsell's frantic pleas to correct the situation. He received AND tested meat from ConAgri proving ConAgri was the source of repeated contamination IN FRONT OF AN USDA INSPECTOR. The USDA response was to put him out of business and do nothing about ConAgri!

A Woman lost her live as a result and many others became ill despite complete knowledge of the situation by the USDA, and his state and local representatives!

Now we get the S-510 Food Safety Farce that will only make the situation WORSE.


Given that track record, do you REALLY expect the USDA to tell us the truth if it is Monsanto's fault?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:35 PM
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posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 




What a joke.
Substantial equivalence



What absolutely frosts me is if a drug manufacturer changes VENDORS he has to go through an abbreviated drug re-approval process. The same with generic equivalents and believe me these are not a simple process, I have done them.

YET a GMO, something we have absolutely now real knowledge of, get a free pass????


I do not have any real problem with the "idea" of GMOs but I sure as heck have a problem with the way their approval has been handled. Especially when the FDA refused to even CONSIDER testing the treatment for arthritis my doctor was taking - it WORKED - no pain despite malformation of the joints! It was some time around 1965 and she raised a big stink on national TV. The FDA STILL would not let it into the country for testing.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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As more species interact with eachother and change their migratory patterns there will be more incidents of animas coming in contact with foregin bacteria or viruses. The world is becoming more mixed and as that happens incidents lke this will rise and then fall after mutation.

If it wasnt for how separated all the speices have been for hundereds of thousands of years.. There are plenty of ecosystems being demolished by a weed... or a beetle. Trying to pin everything on a company that deals with the genetic engineering of plants is not logical.

Seeing as how bees only collect the pollen... i dont see how they could be contanimated with the pesticide....



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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Great information!

I will date myself here, but when I was a kid living in the south, Monsanto started testing some of their first genetically modified corn crops.

Think about this, on the side south side of these huge huge fields, during the time of year when butterflies migrate to Mexico, were thousands of dead butterflies, having died after passing through these fields. We also noticed that year, a large drop in our local honey bee population.

Any of us who lived in that area back then, have zero questions about what is causing our loss of bees, and other insects. We know the answer, we saw it with our own eyes.

Harm None
Peace



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf

Seeing as how bees only collect the pollen... i dont see how they could be contanimated with the pesticide....


The pollen is made from the plant. Which now some plants are classified as a genetic pesticide.
Did you watch the video?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 




No real tests have been done. With the job hopping between Government positions and Monsanto. It seems they have placed key people in positions of decision making and have wrapped up all the opposition.


Sun Tzu Said: All battles are won before they are fought.

We the people lost before we knew we were in a fight.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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This is a good thread.

I do not know enough about Monsanto and the whole Codex Alimwhateveritis to really say anything about it. But i CAN easily say that nature runs best when unimpeded.

I want what my Creator made for me. Not what man has made for me.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by amazed
 





during the time of year when butterflies migrate to Mexico, were thousands of dead butterflies, having died after passing through these fields. We also noticed that year, a large drop in our local honey bee population.

Any of us who lived in that area back then, have zero questions about what is causing our loss of bees, and other insects. We know the answer, we saw it with our own eyes


Nothing like direct eyeball evidence. Thanks.

I hope you post this at lots of different sites. Also if you still are in touch with others who witnessed this it might be of use to write an open letter with signatures and send it to the natural health and organic people.





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