Left handedness on the rise

reply to post by mistafaz


I bet if you could paint an Escher in real-time and with both simultaneously that should be good enough to win one of those million dollars prize gizmos.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

I'm a lefty too, I recommend a book called "A left handed history of the world" it is really interesting. The bad news is the percentage of lefties decreases with age.

Originally posted by Trublbrwing
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I'm a lefty too, I recommend a book called "A left handed history of the world" it is really interesting. The bad news is the percentage of lefties decreases with age.

How is that bad news?

Are you implying that lefties don't live as long?

Because that's been proven false...

It's just that lefties were more oppressed in earlier decades....

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


The burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that left-handed people aren't being oppressed. You have made the claim that left-handed people are being oppressed. I stated that myself, my family, my friends, my school district, and the districts my friends' parents grew up in didn't do this. So it really is on you to prove that there is a nation-wide/world-wide attempt to oppress left-handed people.

I would also like to know what these "evolution" advances are for left-handed people. Being a left-handed person I would love to know what makes me evolutionarily superior to my right-handed friends. I hope you won't ignore that inquiry a second time around.

If you want to talk about oppression... why not bring up racism? How about the way African Americans and mulatos were treated before the Civil Rights movement? Or how about gender bias, and the way women used to be viewed in our society, and older cultures? You could even bring up the ethnicity bias. Thousands of non-English speaking children were forced (via corporal punishment) to abandon their native tongues and learn English?

Left-handed / right-handed... not nearly as important as some of the other injustices I have just listed.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

The burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that left-handed people aren't being oppressed. You have made the claim that left-handed people are being oppressed.

actually I claimed that "lefties are on the rise" because of their lack of suppression.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by MGriff

 

That is funny, I am left handed and born on Christmas. Am I the antichrist?

No you are not. It has been frequently documented that jesus was born in march, i was born on march 20, i am left handed, rhesus negative and have a birthmark on my bum that looks like a nasty gerbil. This 'proof' alone must indicate that I and not YOU are the antichrist. But you can be one of my followers if you like.

reply to post by adjensen

... my wife used to laugh at the way I had to hold up my hands and think for a second when she'd give a "right" or "left" driving direction

I have always been right handed as far as I know and am not aware of being a forced 'convert' from leftyness. Actually most things I can manage with the left hand to a degree but I guess that applies to most people.

Your comment however caught me. I can NEVER get that right when driving or giving instructions driving. A good friend of mine always said - "I never listen to what you say but follow which hand you use". It is very common for me to say turn right and point left and vice versa, but it only seems to be with driving. (Having said that I am known for laying up a table the wrong way round!)

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


this is an underrated topic. i'm right handed my self (YOU DEMONIC LEFT HANDER!:lol but my grandpa used to tell me stories about how he was often hit in school to write and do things with his right hand as a child. its so utterly fascinating that something so trivial is such a big deal to people. interesting history too. star and flag.

I have read scientific studies that conclude left-handedness occurs in utero in the presence of excess testosterone. I have also read that left-handed people have a higher degree of dyslexia (I call it lysdexia). I've trained myself to be basically ambidextrous, but I write left-handed. I play pool right handed, I eat right handed, I bat left-handed, I kick right-footed, and I'm left eyed. If we are looking for true balance, shouldn't we try to use both hemispheres equally? People are gifted in many different ways, so viva le differance.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
I would also like to know what these "evolution" advances are for left-handed people. Being a left-handed person I would love to know what makes me evolutionarily superior to my right-handed friends. I hope you won't ignore that inquiry a second time around.

actually I was not ignoring you I just never got to your second paragraph as I thought you were just trolling because of your incorrect statement that you claim I made.

But to answer this question I never said any side was superior I just say lefties have more heart... and that is a personal observation. Another observation I have recently made is it would seem that lefties live 'outside the box' where as righties are stuck in it not even being able to see the box in some cases specially with youth.

Right handed people need these long winded posts with tons of explanations for facts of stuff they have no idea usually what they are talking about. it would seem...

Lefties need no long post because they usually see the picture the righties are trying to paint, evidence is even here in this thread...

there are no advantages to either side, I am just curious to see with the next coming generations (possibly long after I am gone) if there comes a balance of naturally born lefty and righty people in the world and maybe this one biological thing could have implications for peace and understanding.

all cultures have instituted left hand suppression btw... I am tracing this back in Chinese culture atm where it may have seem to existed before the Hebrew instituted it.

all cultures even different religions... same story.


Wiki:

The left hand symbolized the power to shame society or punishment from the gods.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
all cultures have instituted left hand suppression btw... I am tracing this back in Chinese culture atm where it may have seem to existed before the Hebrew instituted it.

all cultures even different religions... same story.


Wiki:

The left hand symbolized the power to shame society or punishment from the gods.

edit on 12/9/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

What kind of pseudo history goes back before the middle east? The beginnings of civilization are to be found in mesopotamia - and especially not china, which began to exhibits sign of civilization circa 2200 CE. The sumero-babylonian civilization began circa 3800 CE. You have all of mesopotamia and Egypt to look to before you turn to the indus valley, which began around a thousand years later.

This is unduoubtedly present there, rather than in china.

In any case. Look to language, rather than artificacts of culture. The Hebrew word for left, semole, is the same as clothing (with a different vowelization). The soul, is the 'right', whereas the body, is the clothing of the soul, and thus the left. And Hebrew is the oldest extant language today. Another word which is relevant to this is Beged, which means garment. Bagad (different vowelization) means to betrary, or treacherous. In other words, the bodies (garment) main desire is to betray the soul, which has a purpose in this world, by distracting it with foreign and alien interests.

But the idea that left is evil, is a rather recent idea. Thats the Christian nuttery and bafoonery, as i mentioned earlier. Its not true. its just propaganda and fear mongering. It clouds their populations in an atmosophere of worry and dread of the 'devil' who the vatican and early christian fathers virtually deified as a god, in the zoroastrian style. Thats all it was about. To maintain the christian fear of evil... and left handednesss was an indication of it, to them.

reply to post by dontreally


is this turning into a debate or staying a discussion ? I am not belittling the Hebrew saying Chinese were onto something or other first sheesh don't be so defensive

I was reading here...
en.wikipedia.org...
and here...
en.wikipedia.org...

/7600 BC - Zhenpiyan culture, Heavy eh ?

reply to post by dontreally


one more link, the start of written record.

library.thinkquest.org...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by dontreally

 

is this turning into a debate or staying a discussion ? I am not belittling the Hebrew saying Chinese were onto something or other first sheesh don't be so defensive

I was reading here...
en.wikipedia.org...
and here...
en.wikipedia.org...

/7600 BC - Zhenpiyan culture, Heavy eh ?

Ok enough Joking.

Accepted archeology and thus history has civilization beginning 3800 BCE, with Sumer.

I said you'll find your 'source' there, and not in some pseudo history. In anycase, what basis is there in you selecting this group 7600 BCE. Is it because theyre the oldest chinese culture you could find?

Pre-sumerican 'cultures' were hunter gatherers, and they were quite primitive. They didnt have spoken languages and thus lacked the level of consciousness needed to establish civilization (read Erich Neumans history and origin of consciousness)

This is why the Hebrew calendar begins exactly around the beginning of the sumerian civilization. Coincidence? obviously not. Archeology proves that our oldest vestige of civilization was in Sumer, or eridu to be precise. And the Hebrew Calendar perfectly correlates with that (were currently in the year 5771)

Thus your search for the root of, idk, why left handedness is accorded meaning? can be traced back to there.

If you read CG Jung he explains what differentiates the primitive tribes of Africa, indonesia and south america, from civilized man, is self consciousness. Primitives are completely identified with their environment. There isnt much of a separation between subject (themselves) and the object. but rather, a wholistic identification of self with whats percieved. This is why for thousands of years these tribes have not progressed. Sure, they can perform incredible feats of magic... But create a languahe system? invent sophisticated systems in logic? no. its beyond that level of awareness.

Only way for them to grow beyond this level of consciousness is to educate themselves. Education, and knowledge, opens up consciousness to higher levels. Hence "information" literally means a 'inner formation' ie; it forms something new.

This isnt me debating, but correcting you.

Originally posted by dontreally
I said you'll find your 'source' there, and not in some pseudo history. In anycase, what basis is there in you selecting this group 7600 BCE. Is it because theyre the oldest chinese culture you could find?

actually yes... we must start with the earliest records to find the source and I choose the oldest I could find just making a point that China has some of the oldest recorded history.

nothing more, now lets get back to tracing this "suppress the left" thing and it's origins.

btw: in case you didn't notice I am not debating timeline with you... I am searching all the earliest written languages, so lets keep it on topic...

and stop lying about being a lefty

Left handers are much more likely to be homosexual.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by dontreally
I said you'll find your 'source' there, and not in some pseudo history. In anycase, what basis is there in you selecting this group 7600 BCE. Is it because theyre the oldest chinese culture you could find?

actually yes... we must start with the earliest records to find the source and I choose the oldest I could find just making a point that China has some of the oldest recorded history.

nothing more, now lets get back to tracing this "suppress the left" thing and it's origins.

btw: in case you didn't notice I am not debating timeline with you... I am searching all the earliest written languages, so lets keep it on topic...

and stop lying about being a lefty

edit on 12/9/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

Youll only find primitive stuff in primitive cultures.

The high cultures - sumer onwards; thats when a sohpisticated metaphysical cosmology was developed, and therefore, can only legitimately be traced as far back as this civilization. This has nothing to do with anything other than : there wasnt a language system prior to Sumer. There wasnt a mathematical system, or a system of govrnment, or society. this just popped out of nowhere with sumer. To this day, this remains the greatest enigma of archeology. The massive leap between the Sumerian civilization and what preceded it. This is what leads to theories like the ancient astronaut hypothesis.

Either way, only one calendar on Earth has a calendar that goes back that far, and thats the Hebrew, biblical calendar.

Everything before that period is just primitive nature worship without an understanding - key word - integrating and understanding, and thus inferring of abstract subjects. The abstract is very different and indeed, called 'spiritual' compared to an unconscious identification of self with ones environment. The former is a reflection inwads, on outer phenomena, while the latter is simply knowing that the outer is a reflection of the inner. But not a reflection on that knowledge. This can be compared to animals. Animals are completely at one with their environment. They simply look, percieve and engage. Consider it like a line (geometry reflects this wisdom). A line has two points. One here, and one there. The 2 points symbolize a process in consciousness. A subject observes, and than acts. This describes an animal. This aswell describes a primitive human being (albeit, with more sophistication - but still within this context). Conversely, civilized man, has 3 points in his consciousness. An observation, a reflection on the information inwards, towards self, and than an action. This reflects an area. Which allows 'movement' within 3 different dimensions (perception of time, space and spirit). Civilized man is on a higher dimension of existence than the hunter gatherer of china 7000 BCE. Whereas in Sumer 5771 years ago, modern man emerged. We today can identify with this ADaM, as we are his spiritual children (that is, inheritted this mantle of consciousness from him).

The Jungian psychologist Erich Neumann wrote a book on this called 'the history and origin of consciousness' and its become a classic...

What exactly are you looking for with regards to left handedness? when it began? It began when man possessed the ability to understand that the physical body is a reflection of a spiritual, or conceptual reality. So, again, Sumer is the earliest you can go. Prior to than the spiritual organs just simply didnt exist. Its a Fact of archeology, and a very convincing theory of mythological psychology.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I've heard from multiple people that in some cultures, I believe Asian or Pacific Islander maybe, your right hand is used for all forms of social living (greeting & eating) while the left hand would be used for more personal hygiene (wiping one's ass). Even if this notion came from pre-civilization groups, humanity would definitely carry on a tradition as this because it dealt with sanitation and survival as a species.

It doesn't seem to be such an "out there" concept to think that when a group of people establish a civilization, they would still carry some of the more prominent beliefs towards survival that they had as hunter-gatherers. Of course, through the ages such beliefs would be taken advantage of and used by those to further their own agendas such as the Catholic Church teaching that being left handed is sinful.

Originally posted by mistafaz
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I've heard from multiple people that in some cultures, I believe Asian or Pacific Islander maybe, your right hand is used for all forms of social living (greeting & eating) while the left hand would be used for more personal hygiene (wiping one's ass). Even if this notion came from pre-civilization groups, humanity would definitely carry on a tradition as this because it dealt with sanitation and survival as a species.

All ancient peoples followed that custom. Jews/Muslims have always done that up until the invention of toilet paper.