ATS treatment of Wikileaks

I've been feeling ATS change for awhile now, and it has become even more apparent during the whole Wikileaks saga.

Too much of the ATS community is like this:

a) Discuss ghost pictures/aliens/Grainy ufo videos with no supporting evidence.
- Fight over the fact that there is no evidence.
- Various insults flung around, members imply opposing party works for the government
- Worthless thread reaches 100 pages

b) Someone makes a prediction
- Fight over the fact that there is no evidence.
- Worthless thread reaches 100 pages
- OP is banned

c) Various members talk about how corrupt the government is
- Almost every ATS member agrees

c) Wikileaks releases a crapload of real secret documents revealing how corrupt the government is, for us to pick apart.
- Julian is crucified by half the ATS community.
- Believes this is yet another government trick, ignoring the fact that someone is risking their lives, doing more for the truth than we ever have
- Chooses to discuss that, rather than the released cables.

I haven't seen much serious discussion on the actual content of the cables here yet.
In fact the reddit community seems a whole lot more intelligent to me than the community here right now.

The culture here needs a change, the paranoid crack pots that believe the whole world is against them need to leave, people who can't disagree in a polite manner with a logical counter argument need to leave.

And we need more serious discussion on one of the most important events to happen in a long time.
I have a feeling that these cables are one of our last chances to change the world before things really hit the fan.

And if things hit the fan due to these cables on OUR terms because WE are angry, rather than the governments terms, I think that is a whole lot better.

Sure, Julian COULD be part of some kind of psyops against us. What hard evidence do you have?
What brings that doubt past the 50% mark to turn you against him?

What if you're wrong?

Considering the government has weaseled their way into 99% of everything else in the history books it's kinda not hard to expect people to think perhaps the same thing is going on with this case. Besides opposing viewpoints and plain old hardheadedness are some of the things that makes ATS the best. If I wanted to go to a site where everyone agrees all the time I'd just go to Facebook or something and stand in line with the rest of the sheeple. But at times I fully understand your frustration with some topics.

I get your point OP, I really do. But for me the issue isn't the cables at all, they reveal almost nothing that I hadn't already presumed to be true.
The treatment of Julian Assange reveals a lot more to the general disinterested public than the cables ever will.
As an Australian I am particularly concerned about my governments response, how they treat Australian citizens and using this case to highlight exactly how important it is that Aussies take a stand NOW.
We have already lost so many basic rights since 9/11 and it is only going to get worse -- this case is high profile enough that many people are just now becoming aware of the facts.
I have no shame at all in using it to demonstrate to my fellow Aussies exactly what I have been attempting to expose for years.

In short:
Julian himself is largely irrelevant - it wouldn't matter to me what high profile case it was - I would still use it.
The cables are largely irrelevant, they merely affirm the case I am making.
Our government response matters, or lack thereof.
The citizen response matters most of all, and the current sentiment here MUST be used if anything is to change.

reply to post by T0by


if assange was the real deal, and he truly is trying to make people aware of things, and is in favor of 'freeing' people from oppression, then how come we are all talking about what such a leak said about china, or said about the u.k. forces(opinion), rather than hearing about the truth about this and the truth about that.

he has lots of leaks that give opinion's of the person writing the cable and very little that will make people call for change or demand the truth. america thinks this, america thinks that, as oppose to governments DO this, governments DO that.

not only does it only focus on america mostly, it is not revealing anything other than opinions, which can only harm relations and cause more conflict in the world.

reply to post by ilandrah


I agree, the government and publics response is perhaps more interesting than the cables themselves.
That may change in the future though. We'll have to see what else is released.

I'm also Australian, and disappointed but not surprised by our governments reaction.
I'd rather she have just kept her mouth shut.

One thing I am pleased with is the medias coverage and opinion of Wikileaks both here in Australia and the USA.
I may have missed some things, but from what I have seen, I'm pleased and surprised by it.

Originally posted by lifeform11
reply to post by T0by

 

if assange was the real deal, and he truly is trying to make people aware of things, and is in favor of 'freeing' people from oppression, then how come we are all talking about what such a leak said about china, or said about the u.k. forces(opinion), rather than hearing about the truth about this and the truth about that.

he has lots of leaks that give opinion's of the person writing the cable and very little that will make people call for change or demand the truth. america thinks this, america thinks that, as oppose to governments DO this, governments DO that.

not only does it only focus on america mostly, it is not revealing anything other than opinions, which can only harm relations and cause more conflict in the world.

He releases only what he is given, and that which does not put lives at risk.
How we take it is up to us.
The only thing that will bring about change is our reaction to the cables, not so much the content themselves.
It is not true that the cables contain only opinions.
In the recently created thread, you can see a great list of things Wikileaks has exposed
www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=638115

Something else to think about:

"May I remind you that the same collective now being persecuted as a 'terrorist organisation recently received Amnesty International's New Media Award for reports on human rights abuses in Kenya."
www.editorsweblog.org...

reply to post by T0by


Problem is, what you are proposing is censorship and controlled speech. You don't like what someone else says, you want them shut up.

How can you be for Assange and at the same time want to limit others speech you don't agree with. Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Mostly because of crap like this, that has no place on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
"Assange has been detained. Lets see these promised files. If they are nothing as I suspect they are, then I hope you die, without another peep out of you. Let important stories come to the forefront."

WAKE UP

Here's me theory:

No offense to the members here but a lot of you have weak minds.
You claim to be anti-Government and are searching for truth, yet really you are waiting for other people to do the work for you..

Someone DOES get the truth, and they release their findings. At first you are praising them but soon new members join up and start spinning the truth, then more new members join up to flag and star those threads. This is happening on every other major conspiracy forum too by the way. I don't know whether these people are just pro-Government or whether they ARE the Government but it IS happening.

Now, the irony is that most of you think you're ahead of the general population - smarter than them, denying ignorance, not letting anybody persuade your opinion - yet that is EXACTLY what is happening to you. Because it seems like a majority of people are anti-Wikileaks you think that means Wikileaks must be bad and you turn against them too.

BTW, once a pro-Wikileaks thread gets posted it gets as many stars and flags as the anti-Wikileaks ones.
Make of that what you will. In my opinion it proves the people flagging and starring anti-wikileaks threads are cointelpro.


I've tried to get this across to people a lot but most of you are too close-minded to see it. Soon this thread will have no more attention paid to it and my post as well as any other pro-wikileaks post will be forgotten.

WAKE UP

reply to post by T0by


Are you up to speed on what actually happened with Assange? He picked up a well know militant Feminist and Progressive Activist who want's a Castro style government. Went to her place, talked her into letting him stay there and had sex with her. Then a few days later he picks up another girl while still living with the first. He has sex with her. She calls him at the first woman's place where he is now staying and tells her she slept with him. They get together and the two jilted groupies go to the Police with a story.

No government, he just screwed over the wrong two women.

The Story at Mail Online.

Me, I don't trust his motives and this story confirms my suspicions he was just a globe-trotting attention whore. Dealing out the stuff he acquired in batches to maximize donations to support his lifestyle while bedding down his groupies. The second girl in this story is the same age as his Son.

I don't think this guy is the Hero people are waiting for.

reply to post by Nventual


Still waiting for him to release anything worthwhile. Got anything? Anything at all? You send him money?

People who go to work, raise their families to be good people do more good for this world than a dozen globetrotting celebrities, sleeping with their groupies like this guy. He may have started noble, but when he did not refuse the stuff from that Soldier, who's own Mother describes him as a scorned Gay Man, angry at the world, trying to get even with people for not treating him right, he became somebody else.

How does causing more problems between countries help anyone?

reply to post by Blaine91555


I don't really care what he does in bed. I can say I've done just as much and i'm a really nice person in general.
I'm surprised you're trying to go for that approach here in this thread.

The idea has been put forward that it is released in batches because
- Large amount of files, 250000 at once. People won't care. It's too much to take in all at once. By the time everything has been gone through, people have moved on.
- Small doses of scandal, with the occasional shocker, are much easier to take in.

The general public is stupid, remember?

The reason you provided for the short bursts of cables makes alot less sense.
Lifestyle? I wouldn't say he has much of a life at the moment.

reply to post by Nventual


Very very good post and I agree with you completely.

Furthermore, I believe it was Alex Jones first talking about the 'dubious nature' of Wikileaks and his alleged links with certain people.
But most ATS users don't like Alex jones so um....... why listen to him now?
If anything, he could be a little jealous.
Julians accomplishing much more than he has, on a MUCH wider scale in such a short time frame.

Originally posted by T0by
II haven't seen much serious discussion on the actual content of the cables here yet.


Wow really? I have to respectfully disagree- I think this thing has given ATS a much needed kick in the you know what- people are putting their thinking caps on, having civilized discussions, doing research, sharing information, bouncing ideas off each other, etc etc etc......

Originally posted by ilandrah
As an Australian I am particularly concerned about my governments response,.

Same here, actually I'm disgusted at Julia Gillard. She seems more interested in what (if any) Australian laws he may have broken.

Today in a (ABC)radio interview Kevin Rudd said the Aust Govt will provide consular support for Assange, but only in regards to the Swedish sex charges.

reply to post by yizzel


Rudd said he will make sure nothing bad happens to Julian though as he's an Australian.
Did you watch Gillard yesterday talking about Wikileaks? Clenched fists throughout the whole conference, never seen that before. You know the saying, "If you got nothing to hide, you got nothing to worry about".

reply to post by Blaine91555


I've never given any money to wikileaks. ALL of their leaks have been worthwhile. What do you want, proof of UFOs or something? Get real.

reply to post by Nventual


I didn't see it, only heard excerpts on the radio lastnight. I don't watch TV much.

What gets me is the hypocrisy, a few years ago she got on her high horse about David Hicks treatment by the Howard govt, and now that she's in charge she's suddenly not too keen on sticking up for her fellow Aussie. Shame on her!!

reply to post by Nventual


right. it could not possibly be people just having their own opinion? it must be a conspiracy as to why some are 'anti' as you put it, wikileaks.

the media have done almost nothing over the years to bring real truth to the people, why are the starting now? there have been lots of threads about media manipulation and how they talk about things that only fit the agenda or about rubbish like britney spears. it does not cross your mind that some people might find it suspicious that the media are all over this story, and we are suppose to believe it does not fit an agenda(problem reaction solution) for a end outcome they are looking for, and we must believe the media had a change of heart overnight and decided to start reporting the truth about things, when they have previously ignored many truths and not reported them.

people form their own opinions, and untill something comes along to make them think otherwise they will more than likely always have that opinion. i find it insulting that your telling people they only think what they do because they are following other people, the same can be said about those who think assange is a hero or wikileaks is for the people.

i am more amazed people are not being more wary and just jumping straight in with their opinion made up, sorry i gave wikileaks long enough to release information that might make a difference, i see nothing that will change a thing so far, so i will continue to be wary untill such a time that something is released or happens that shows which side of the fence he is truly on, or where it is going to lead, if this is indeed, problem, reaction, solution for the masses. to cause conflict between nations? to shut down websites that have the 'file'? to excuse restricting freedom of speech/information on the net?

i keep hearing the term in the media 'he is putting people at risk' hmmm how can they protect us in future? i will have to wait and see what happens, but to assume people do not have their own opinions and are just following a crowd is wrong, and a tactic used to make people feel that not supporting wiki, somehow makes then 'unaware' or 'sheep'.

Originally posted by lifeform11
reply to post by Nventual

 

the media have done almost nothing over the years to bring real truth to the people, why are the starting now?
....
i keep hearing the term in the media 'he is putting people at risk' hmmm how can they protect us in future?

You contradicted yourself. Is the media pro or anti wikileaks? Make up your mind.

reply to post by Nventual


how? that is what makes me suspicious, the fact they never report the truth, but suddenly..... along comes julian and they had a change of heart.