Did Bush "steal" the election?

The truth is there would be no way to get an accurate number even by doing a recount, for many who were in line in heavily registered democrat areas were turned away when the polls close the rule is if you are in line when the poll closes you are still supposed to be allowed to vote but no they did noit follow that rule. They also had people's name taken off the rolls due to the fact that their name was similar to a felons. So unless you allow these people to vote then you are not going to get an accurate count for who the people of Florida wanted in office.

I do see your point, however, the majority of the peopel should have the say on who is president. I don't live in a large city, I live in the country, and most of those in my area didn't want Bush as president, but the majority didn't get a say in who wins, it's the elctoral votes. I still think its rubbish.

This was in the paper today. St. Pete Times. Talks about how innocent people are being considered felons, for the sake of voting anyway.

I think peoples opinion of the electoral college can easily be swayed by which side of the political spectrum they were on after the 2000 presidential election.

I think its fair to say that had the situation been reversed, Bush with popular vote - gore with electoral vote, then you would see a corresponding reversal of opinion as stated in these posts. Basically this argument comes down to the inconvenience of the law and constitution not fitting a particular political view.

This in itself proves the worth of the electoral system to me.

Without the electorial system all a politician would have to do to get elected would be to please concentrated groups of people in urban areas to the detriment of all others.

Eventually in order to get elected they would have to promise more and more largesse to a pampered population - where would it stop one has to ask?
Don't you think the candidates already make promises that have no real chance of being implemented? - I do. (see my sig)

Did you weatch Farenhaeit 9/11? It said that in the movie. It's likley Bush cheated.

Just because someone is anti-corruption doesn't mean they saw F9/11. There is a post about that in another forum.

Anyways, he didn't steal the election. Bush isn't smart enough. Cheney and Bush Sr. and the other republicans, well, they didn't go through college with white powder on their noses and daddy paying bribes. They actually are smart as hell and probably all have a high cognitive ability. Hell, bet they are in the 2-3 range of the standard deviation of the cognitive ability mean.

But yes, Jeb/Florida broke many rules. Also, alot of military votes in Florida "disappeared" and guess who the military was supporting? And they also blocked voting places to many blacks and other minorities. Then the poll closed thing they did which is oh so f*cking wrong. If you in line and polls close, you still allowed to vote. Then the name bs they did. Also, say all you brought with you was your drivers liscense and they ask for proof of citizenship. How many of you out there bring your birth certificate, high school diplomas, medical records, whatever, that the people were asking for to prove you were a citizen? I sure as hell don't bring all them with me to go voting. So in Florida if you didn't bring an entire filing cabinet of documents proving you were a citizen you weren't allowed to vote in certain areas.

Republicans will get what is coming to them. Just watch and laugh. Like a criminal getting hit by a bus after robbing a bank. Karma is a funny funny man.

Originally posted by FreeMason
550,000 voters is only .00367% of the electorate that voted. Hmmm...Let me round down to 100,000,000 and that gives us....0055% so as you can see, not even with rounding down is it even a full .01% of the electorate

So splitting hairs, Gore won the popular vote by 48.0055% and Bush lost it by 47.9945%.

Not very far apart

Jesus, FreeMason, get a clue, will you? By definition, 1% = .01. The actual figures are as follows.

Gore -- 50,999,897 = 48.38%

Bush -- 50,456,002 = 47.87%

Presidential Election of 2000, Electoral and Popular Vote Summary

I'm putting this excerpt from an article by Christopher Ruddy discussing F911 here, because it has relevance regarding the 2000 election in Florida. Just another point of view.

Moore claims that this is a movie about Bush�s failure to handle the events that led up to 9/11.

But the opening of the documentary reveals that his real intent was to inflict as much political damage on Bush as possible.

He does so by having viewers relive his version of the 2000 election crisis in an effort to show that George Bush a) is an illegitimate president and b) stole the election from Al Gore.

I�m not sure what the election controversy has to do with Sept. 11.

But in discussing this event, Moore uses the same old arguments that somehow Bush stole the election and squeaked through in Florida.

In a sequence of footage he shows news clips of the 2000 Election Night where the major news anchors flip-flopped their prediction that Al Gore had won Florida.

But he could just as easily have shown clips of the networks declaring Gore the winner of Florida � an hour before all the polls in the state had closed.

As Republicans have pointed out, this had the effect of lowering Republican turnout by as many as 50,000 votes in Florida�s Panhandle.

As it turned out, Bush won Florida by a squeaker � but there is little dispute that had the media not acted deviously in calling the election early in Florida, Bush would have won quite handily.

Ruddy

I don't understand the relevance of your post. We aren't disputing whether Bush could have won more. You can extend this rationale to states all of over the country. Are you just trying to get some licks in against Moore.
But yea, thats one reason why people criticize exit-polls.

Donquillermo you major moron.

I know I made a mistake mathematically, I forgot that for every 1 you take away you're adding one so it is a difference of 2, the disparity between the two %s is actually less.

NOT MORE AS YOU SHOWED YOU BUFFOON.

the difference is .0055% not .011% as I calculated.

The answer is actually as follows.

Gore 48.00275%
Bush 47.99725%

Damn it, I hate when people think I'm wrong.

.01=1% yes, but I'm not using decimals to represent percentage I'm working with percentage directly.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Donquillermo you major moron.

I know I made a mistake mathematically, I forgot that for every 1 you take away you're adding one so it is a difference of 2, the disparity between the two %s is actually less.

NOT MORE AS YOU SHOWED YOU BUFFOON.

You are amazing, FreeMason. I am right and you are wrong, and you are calling me a moron and buffoon. Please go to the link I provided in my post, scroll down to the bottom, and you will see that you are wrong.

Originally posted by FreeMason
The answer is actually as follows.

Gore 48.00275%
Bush 47.99725%

Damn it, I hate when people think I'm wrong.

.01=1% yes, but I'm not using decimals to represent percentage I'm working with percentage directly.

FreeMason, you should stay away from numbers, because you don't understand them. The correct answers are 48.38% for Gore, and 47.87% for Bush. Scroll down to the bottom of this link to see the correct numbers.

Presidential Election of 2000, Electoral and Popular Vote Summary

Of course you hate it when people think you are wrong, because you always are.

LoL the differences is the figures we were using, hahah, I'm not wrong. And I don't believe your site's figures are any more right. No one is really sure what the figures were.

Originally posted by FreeMason
LoL the differences is the figures we were using, hahah, I'm not wrong. And I don't believe your site's figures are any more right. No one is really sure what the figures were.

Yes you are wrong, FreeMason. You don't believe the figures from the link I cited are correct? How about another link?

www.factmonster.com...

No one is really sure what the figures were? You are grasping at straws. These are the official election results. You are really showing how pig-headed and stubborn you are by refusing to admit when you are wrong. I have pointed out several previous mistakes you have made and you have ignored me. Now you are showing all of ATS your true character.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I don't understand the relevance of your post. We aren't disputing whether Bush could have won more. You can extend this rationale to states all of over the country. Are you just trying to get some licks in against Moore.
But yea, thats one reason why people criticize exit-polls.

No, I don't take Moore seriously at all. The title of the post was "Did Bush "steal" the election?", and, as I said, it was just another point of view that says NO, he didn't. Moore just happened to be injected because of Ruddy's article, which I was using as reference.

Originally posted by jsobecky
But he could just as easily have shown clips of the networks declaring Gore the winner of Florida � an hour before all the polls in the state had closed.

Although honestly, this is way off-topic, I would just like to point out that the film does show them projecting Gore as winning Florida before the polls are closed. They show NBC, CBS, CNN, and I think ABC all doing so.

Additionally, I agree with the way division of states is handled. THe nation needs to work that way so that the interests of all of the people in the nation can be served as equally as possible. However, in terms of presidential election I am not sure how I stand. I mean, I think the electoral college system assures to a certain extent that individual states are recognized, but the President is a Federal position, representing every single citizen of the United States. When some one who is chosen to represent every citizen of the US is chosen by the most people, but does not actually win, I think the system has failed. I think the electoral college system is good in that it makes individual states count, but ultimately it serves against the interests of the nation overall when it allows the candidate who did not win the popular vote to take office. I think that possibly the system should be revised that ultimately the person who wins the popular vote will win, but the electoral college system is kept in place to serve the interests of states' individually. I'm not certain if this would defeat the entire purpose of the electoral college or not, but that is just my 2 cents.

[edit on 5-7-2004 by spngsambigpants]

Originally posted by jsobecky
But he could just as easily have shown clips of the networks declaring Gore the winner of Florida � an hour before all the polls in the state had closed.

Although honestly, this is way off-topic, I would just like to point out that the film does show them projecting Gore as winning Florida before the polls are closed. They show NBC, CBS, CNN, and I think ABC all doing so.

Additionally, I agree with the way division of states is handled. THe nation needs to work that way so that the interests of all of the people in the nation can be served as equally as possible. However, in terms of presidential election I am not sure how I stand. I mean, I think the electoral college system assures to a certain extent that individual states are recognized, but the President is a Federal position, representing every single citizen of the United States. When some one who is chosen to represent every citizen of the US is chosen by the most people, but does not actually win, I think the system has failed. I think the electoral college system is good in that it makes individual states count, but ultimately it serves against the interests of the nation overall when it allows the candidate who did not win the popular vote to take office. I think that possibly the system should be revised that ultimately the person who wins the popular vote will win, but the electoral college system is kept in place to serve the interests of states' individually. I'm not certain if this would defeat the entire purpose of the electoral college or not, but that is just my 2 cents.

EDIT: Also, does any one know if the electoral value of a state in the electoral college is determined at all by its actual voter turn out or just the state's population?

[edit on 6-7-2004 by spngsambigpants]

Here is a pretty good video on the Florida Voting Disaster set to music. Well worth the view.

Adding the link may help

www.ericblumrich.com...

Originally posted by theshadowknows
I say its naders fault. If he had just left the election alone, gore would be in the white house.

Its also the fault of the governer of flordia, being related to bush, he had to lie to get bush in office.


IMHO, If it wasn't fro those two dumba**es, our country would be in better shape than it is now.

ha ha ha. this is the biggest load of crap ever. that pussy gore woulda folded to the terrorist faster than it takes france to fall to the germans. wed be screwed if gore won the election. no to mention it'd be like having a robot version of bill clinton in there.