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Abovetopsecret.com ridiculed in a College Course.

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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That "high level officer" is making a classic mistake, or logical fallacy: Association Fallacy

In short, he's attempting to associate this troubled youth's demise with ATS, as if ATS were the cause of his troubles. Guilt-by-association, if you will. He's insinuated that "conspiracy theories" are the cause of this man's suicide and murder spree.

What's stupid about his argument, besides the fact that association does not mean causation, is that law enforcement detectives investigate conspiracies EVERY DAY, called crimes. Crimes often involve more than one person conspiring to commit a crime. Some are drug dealer syndicates, some are couples embezzling money, some are cops actively covering up the crime of a fellow officer.

Point is, if people who study conspiracies are murderous suicidal maniacs, then A) This man is admitting that he himself is a murderous suicidal maniac, and B) All ATS members are murderous suicidal maniacs.

Since we know that both A) & B) are FALSE, then we can conclude that this "high level officer" is a completely irresponsible idiot who shouldn't be lecturing at the University level (unless he was being used as an example of logical fallacies in a philosophy class).

What's also stupid about this officer's comments, is that it's limited in scope and out of context. This indicates EXTREME laziness on this "high law officer's" part. Instead of really getting to the root cause of this tribal kid's mental illness (be it genetic predisposition, up bringing, childhood abuse, drugs, etc), he simply blames ATS.

If these are the types of idiots investigating crimes and protecting society, no wonder there is so much crime in this country.




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask

99% of all news reported by the media comes here first...usually by weeks, months or even years.

So while that idiot is laughing, perhaps he should be taught how ATS deliver's world events faster then any other web site online...



Yup - that is how I feel as well. ATS actually is one of the best news sites on the net. I've lost track of how many times friends have said, "OMG - you told me 3 months ago to watch for this!!"

However, I will also say that sometimes those nuggets of information gold and thoughtful debate can get a little hidden by some of the more out there stuff or the various..ummm..."spirited discussions"
of how stupid / evil / wrong / etc the right / left / Republicans / Democrats / Socialists / Capitalists / Communists / Christians / Muslims / Jews / Atheists / Americans / Europeans / Russians / Chinese / Israelis / Arabs / straights / homosexuals / government / military is.

** Disclaimer ** - I (Frogs) do hereby humbly apologize to any group, nation, religion, political, philosophical, or sexual orientation I left out of the above categorization. The other thing about ATS is that sooner or later there will be a thread filled with people saying nasty things about something you believe strongly in. Its best not to let it get to you when it happens.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by facelift
 


I don't think it matters which university it was said at, or which lecturer said it. The OP is genuinely trying to bring discussion around, IF ats deserves to be ridiculed in academic institutions. Demanding 'the facts' is simply delaying discussion.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Here's a typical response that will cover 50% of the posts on ATS:
"OMG! It is Nibiru/Nemesis!
Please do not bother to study astronomy, physics or common sense; it is far too late.
You must leave ATS at once, and find shelter!
Thee is no hope; the USA, NASA and Sesame Street lie to you; they want you to stay present to feed the zombies.
You MUST hide at once! Find a bed, bathtub or Blockbuster and stay safe until we call you back."

ATS has NO credibility without an age-based and knowledge-based membership filter.

More than 50% of the posts reflect a lack of awareness of even the most basic of social/scientific standards.

We get what we deserve.

Deny ignorance.
jw



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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You can not really blame the guy for making fun of ATS. I do it and I come here several times a day. Some of the "theories" here are insane at best. Do I even need to bring up the 2 threads that predicted a Nuclear War based on a cartoon? Using that as an example, is it any wonder why a person from an institute of higher learning would not be making fun of this site? We once had a thread where the OP claimed to be an alien, we had another one where the OP basically claimed to be the resurrection of Jesus Christ. How many times have we seen a video with some compression issues and saw, "OMG look they are reptiles and they are shape shifting!!!"

There is still some really good stuff to be found here, sadly it usually gets overshadowed by the nonsense.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Is there anywhere NEAR the level of lies and corruption here than within the "law system"?


I would call stating theory as fact to be lying.

What's RATS and why would a thread be moved to RATS?
edit on 7-12-2010 by aivlas because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Honestly, his description is pretty hilarious.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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I admit that ATS has its downside....but all and all through and through....it's an amazing community for conspiracy theories.
What he said is what we call trolling in here.....in my opinion, people saying [snip] like that in front of a lecture hall is a TYPICAL [snip]:flame

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


edit on 7/12/10 by argentus because: mod edit



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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Remember man, you are talking to people who label things as Hoax the second they disagree with something. Personally, I can believe it, ATS really isn't brought up much in casual conversation, but conspiracy nuts get poked at every once in a while in my CRJU and Sociology courses. It happens at my university, so I don't doubt for a second it could happen at yours.

Also, I agree there has been a lack of quality and a lot of predictions, doom, and far-fetched wackiness in the past several months that have me questioning why I check this site multiple times a day. Just being honest. I love ATS but some of this stuff is just absurd.

That description is pretty humorous though. I liked it, and the backwards signs are great. Maybe this isn't a joke and he's cluing us into this grand plan that the government is going to enact with the UN!

edit on 7-12-2010 by SweetRevenge because: adding the last bit



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


You haven't read this thread. The point of discussing the young man was trying to find a way to help him solve his problems, before he killed 9 people and himself, not to ridicule ATS, or to tie ATS to the "root" of the problem.

Yes ATS was made a mockery of, but I don't think it's fare for you to say that the instructor "insinuated" anything, since you were not there.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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I've had a geology teacher poke fun at alternative history theories that mainly deal with Egypt, and not in a laughing matter. The main one was with the age of the Sphinx. He flat out lied about something he was apart of, and I had to snicker to myself, because he thought he was being so coy in fooling the class. He was allowed to study the Sphinx, so I shouldn't have been surprised when he completely acted the part of an arrogant butthead when talking about Schoch and his theories.

Your professors' description was kind of funny, though.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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I'd like to add something about the instructor's personal qualities, since it seems that making decisions about the individual based on one quote and a little information is a good idea to some.

I believe there are three types of people in law: 1- The Powerhungry, 2- The guy that thinks it's cool to be a cop, and 3- The guy that actually cares about protecting the law and serving people.

I believe the instructor was number 3. Either that, or he was a fantastic actor. I believe him to be honest, and and true to what his profession is supposed to be.

However, if you are going to be ignorant enough to judge an individual that you have not met based on a rough quote about some ridiculous crap that came out of ATS, and his chosen profession, go ahead.

If I lived my entire life honestly, and decided tomorrow I wanted to work in law enforcement, would that make me a bad person?



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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Anyplace where the common man/woman can gather together en masse, and communicate, is going to be hated by someone in the system. Some people just abhor the idea of educated and non educated, black and white, believer and skeptic, and so on, would actually form a community to dicuss their agreements and differences, likes and dislikes. To censor that community beyond what ATS already requires of it's member would be a travesty. No matter how annoying the "predictions" get. No matter how ridiculous we might find one another's views. Their is good information to be found here, as well as what we know as the human experience.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 

Although I see your point. And wouldn't argue it. I would like to say this.

Many years ago I knew a man who was a very gifted person in the sciences. He had two Phd's, and was well thought of by his peers. He was a no nonsense, common sense, kind of guy. In a one on one, off the record discussion with this man, he told me something that not only sounded like he had gone off the deep end, but made me think and say to him, "You are frikkin crazy". That's not only impossible, It sounds like a script out of a bad hollywood movie. Well, when it came to pass years later, I was so astounded, I have never again looked at some of those crazy theories, and crazy history the same way. Beware, sometimes the sky really is falling. Other times, it's just plain old paranoia.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by wisefoolishness
reply to post by harrytuttle
 

You haven't read this thread. The point of discussing the young man was trying to find a way to help him solve his problems, before he killed 9 people and himself, not to ridicule ATS, or to tie ATS to the "root" of the problem.

Yes ATS was made a mockery of, but I don't think it's fare for you to say that the instructor "insinuated" anything, since you were not there.

A) Yes, I read the thread. But I responded to your OP, not the thread. So don't patronize me, slick.
B) In your OP you said, and I quote, "I'd like to hear your thoughts on this."
C) So, I gave you my thoughts based on your testimony of the subject matter. You didn't say, "Only provide responses IF YOU WERE THERE and WITNESSED IT."
D) Of course I wasn't there, but that's completely and utterly beside the point. Thanks for stating the obvious.
E) Based on your testimony of the subject matter, assuming you weren't lying or misleading us, it's 100% okay for me to say that the instructor "insinuated" ATS was linked to the cause, because he did, based on your testimony.
F) If you can't handle the responses you get, then you probably shouldn't be ASKING FOR RESPONSES from the ATS community.

Keep studying, you need it.

edit on 7-12-2010 by harrytuttle because: typo



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. You mean, the educational system that was intentionally set up to keep people from the truth, is keeping people from the truth? ha ha. ho ho.

In all seriousness, I've been a strong critic of a lot of the nonsense on here lately. Even with that said, it's still worth it. In the end, I'll take a source of information presenting 25% pure craziness and 75% interesting dialogue anytime over the MSM's propaganda and "special interests" which never come more than a lightyear from the truth.

The truly unsettling aspect of the story, however, is the fact that countless young minds are being manipulated and indoctrinated by people who think they know far more than they actually do.


I'm afraid that proff's attitude isn't the exception, but rather the rule. This site may deserve some ridicule from time to time, but I'd rather deal with it than close myself off to the glorious unknown...much to the dismay of teacher's like the one from the story.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


Agreed. All valid points.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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I can tell you that most people I know, if they came to this site, would just laugh at it, and never come back.
That does not mean it is not a great site.
THis site is for people that are interested in alternative information, and we all here know that you have to sift through a lot of garbage to find the nuggets, but that's to be expected in a unique environment such as this site.

I also think most of us here, don't tow the company line, we think for ourselves, unlike most around us, am I right?

That's why those other people make fun of this stuff, it's just not interesting at all to them, and they really don't understand it or just don't have the patience or care. Doesn't mean it's not valid, even some of the crazy stuff.

I personally don't talk about this site to others, other than to my husband, and even then I limit it. But I think there is much to be learned here.

I actually think we all can wear our membership as a source of pride, just only we members will appreciate it!
edit on 7-12-2010 by SunnyDee because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


Fair enough.

Thanks for the personal attack, by the way.

A big person, you are.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by wisefoolishness
 


I have debated with university professors in the past.
They often are defensive over their points of view.
ATS and Infowars provide much fodder for the fire.
This site is composed of many diverse freethinking 'individuals' from various backgrounds.


It is in the professors interest to stick to the Truth when the truth is found.
For truth has no competition, it Is.
It can take many years to de-institutionalize an 'educated' mind.
Personally, I prefer experience to the written variety.

edit on 49pm56084812831201012 by Perseus Apex because: (no reason given)




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