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The Weakest and Most Cowardly of all Arguments Against Wikileaks

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posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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It seems that those who are intent, for whatever reason, on believing that Wikileaks isn't what they seem to be, have mostly reverted to the following argument ... it goes something like this:

"WL is a NWO/PTB setup, under the 'problem>reaction>solution' dynamic, to restrict and take away our internet freedoms."


The first problem with this line of thinking this: Where the hell have you been since circa 1990?

Did you nap through the patriot act?
Were you in the bathroom during warrantless wiretaps?
Perhaps you were flogging your felafel each and every time over the last twenty or so years when your and my freedoms, within and outside the web, have been eroded away drop by drop Chinese water torture style?
Or did you notice all those too but each time, like this time, your strategy was "shush, don't anger the powerful ones for they might smite me!"

How did that work out?

We are where we are today, the reason it has come to this, is precisely because other than a few threads and posts here and there none of us, including myself, did anything of substance to stop this!

It was intellectually convenient and cowardly then as it is now ... it is the reasoning of the lamb, and it is fatally flawed ...

For unless someone draws the line somewhere the line will always be shifting against the people, and those with such reasoning will always allow for it. Not only allow for it but thank their masters for the privilege. It is the thinking of the defeated existence, the capitulated mind, and it is the very definition of surrender!

Our freedoms, especially our internet freedoms are dying and the timid want to say nothing, hear nothing, see nothing for fear of loosing what is left of their prison!



This isn't even about Wikileaks, it is to simply point out that the powers of the world, The Gatekeepers, don't need the pretext of Wikileaks to take away our freedoms, we've already handed them to them ... and mostly because of the stated reasoning.

This is what we've done ... the only question which remains is, what will you and I do now?


edit on 6 Dec 2010 by schrodingers dog because: bb code




posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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It is true! All of us with the exception of a few have done little to nothing at all to try and prevent any of this. We are all guilty of the same thing. We have been afraid to stand up and challenge those that try and control us by bending laws and tearing and twisting interpretations of laws to fit their wants and needs. I am afraid that when it finally comes time for those of us that have the courage to stand up and do something finally come around to actually doing it, the time will have past where any of it would have made a difference and we will already be marching to the tune of our masters drum. This all reminds me of a clip from the movie V for Vendetta.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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I like your thinking,


i can relate to it and agree. Ive even posted something similar out here


They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.


edit to say...
I didn't righ the above though
edit on 12/6/2010 by Sinter Klaas because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Thank God for some common sense at last.. I've been saying similar things on many of the threads but you expressed it much more eloquently. Thank you.

The fear factor works so effeciently, even amongst those who pride themselves on being conspiracy theorists. Perhaps 'theorist' is the salient point. The main thrust of the overwhelming majority of what was posted on here were actually attacking WL and DEFENDING this Government, and their duplicity and in some cases crimes which are being exposed.

Many spout about being united, but when it came down to it, the majority were more comfortable to attack WL, IMO because that was 'safest'








edit on 6-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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Some inspiration.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Even if some of us don't believe all about WL or Assange are what are purported to be doesn't mean I'm not interested in the content or implications of what comes out.

If it's important enough, it will need to be verified.

We do need to be careful about what credence we give any released information without confirmation.

Otherwise, we're just joining in political gossip.

I'm sorry you didn't feel like protesting when Bush/Cheney were trashing the Constitution.
Not everyone stayed at home watching Seinfeld.

I fail to see what is cowardly about questioning WikiLeaks or Assange.
I do that to everybody.
God included.


edit on 6-12-2010 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:29 AM
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Bless you schroedinger's dog for putting some sense back into this place which has become full of paranoia and FEAR...

We need not fear WIkileaks or the powers that were.

This is now coming to an end, the defeat of the dark hats of this world in a most public way FOR ALL TO SEE!!!

REJOICE my friends! We have won this!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals

I fail to see what is cowardly about questioning WikiLeaks or Assange.


Nothing, I haven't stated anything to the contrary ... in fact the OP is part of that very process of questioning and dissection. Which makes your argument rather odd as it doesn't actually address or refute anything outlined in the OP, instead it is pinned against some abstract straw man generalized premise.

The narrow scope and premise of this thread is to point to the fallacious nature of a singular argument which as I outlined is relevant but not exclusive to Wikileaks ... namely this idea about it being a 'set up' to limit internet freedom. It is in no way aimed to suggest that 'questioning' should be stopped.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


i say lets put it to the test then. say he is standing up to TPTB, then he would focus most of his energy on that which started and lead to the eventual complete dissemination of the constitution of america (and the last ray of light in this God-forsaken world) that being 9/11. what does this man who is against GLOBAL TYRANNY have to say about this matter? what is his opinion on the biggest and most televised fake of all time? if he was in fact a "truth seeker" then let's hear his opinion on 9/11 truth.. please if he is going to bring GWB to justice and incarcerated for the war crimes committed on that day which will forever live in infamy, then and only then can he be followed.
9/11 truth to me is the true sign of any truth seeker. if you call it a hoax you have done your research and realized it was the beginning of the end. if you believe it happened the way they said it did.. well you don't seem to be much for seeking the truth. all you have to do to change my mind is answer 3 questions. what happened to WTC 7, what happened to the plane at the pentagon, and what happened to the plane at Pennsylvania. (and not the answer that was given us)
the death of the constitution started on that day, and anyone that denies it was done with intent, is not for us but works (intentionally or not) for TPTB.
that was by far the largest attack on human rights, at least in my history, ever.

so in conclusion what does he say about 9/11?
edit on 7-12-2010 by stuncrazy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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This isn't even about Wikileaks, it is to simply point out that the powers of the world, The Gatekeepers, don't need the pretext of Wikileaks to take away our freedoms, we've already handed them to them ... and mostly because of the stated reasoning.


I agree that TPTB don't necessarily need pretext to take away freedoms, and I understand you feel like apathy is the problem. This said, to suppress social uprising and retaliation by the people in the face of restricted rights, it's in TPTB's best interests to manipulate public opinion to justify their actions. For example, if there is a constant perception of terrorist threat, airplane bombings, nuclear warfare, "damaging" information leaks etc. then there will be public support for higher security measures, greater Government control and surveillance of the internet, and agreement with the justification behind unpopular wars and outrageous military spending. The trick is to make the public believe that they need to give up some of their freedoms for the "greater good". Wikileaks serves this purpose for many who base their opinions on what they see in the MSM.

Also, if Wikileaks is a PSYOP, they've received more than enough attention in order to monopolize the collection and dissemination of leaks. They control what info we see as "real", and suppress any other outlet for leaked information. Therefore, if you believe Wikileaks is true to form, and it turns out they're actually a PSYOP, then you are actively supporting the censorship of real and transparent leaks.

By this logic, you're handing your freedom over to TPTB if you think Wikileaks is the real deal. That's why I choose to be cautious - it's the safest bet.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Schrodinger, my good fellow, you're wasting your wise and knowledgable breath.

There are those here who agree with you. There are those here who disagree with you. ATS is a polarised microcosm of the wordly environment we find ourselves in. Whilst I support and agree with your OP wholeheartedly, I feel that you may as well have written your excellent thread in a personal diary for all the impact it's going to have here on ATS.

Your OP politely suggests that proponents of the argument you describe wake up and smell the bull spewing out of their facial orifices. I wouldn't have been so gentle.

Your point is valid, and worthwhile - but until we all agree to start ACTING on our beliefs, we will not be able to do anything about this libertinous decay that has set in. It's a shame that ATS has rules on recruitment, we could field a hell of a network to defend Wikileaks if we wanted to....

Rev.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


thank you
beautiful thinking and inspirational
incrementalizim the act of the drip filling the bucket
the frog who doesnt feel the water boil slowly around you
and when some one stands up we the so called truth seekers
tell them sit down we like what we have dont make waves

so what can you do? keep telling others to sit down ? accept each and every small step on the way to slavery?
we have to act within the laws and morals of our humanity
or we risk becoming monsters to act on a level playing feild with monsters
i am no monster and will not resign my humanity to such a concept of being such
when people see the truth that we are being slowly boiled by monsters
we have two choices
TELL ANYONE WHO STANDS UP TO SIT DOWN
OR JUMP OUT OF THE BOILING WATER

how far is too far
once you have been pushed too far you may find its too late
BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY DINNER

to do nothing ensures the monsters win
to act as humans as one
we cant loose

devided we fall.........................

xploder



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by pforkp

This said, to suppress social uprising and retaliation by the people in the face of restricted rights, it's in TPTB's best interests to manipulate public opinion to justify their actions. For example, if there is a constant perception of terrorist threat, airplane bombings, nuclear warfare, "damaging" information leaks etc. then there will be public support for higher security measures, greater Government control and surveillance of the internet, and agreement with the justification behind unpopular wars and outrageous military spending. The trick is to make the public believe that they need to give up some of their freedoms for the "greater good". Wikileaks serves this purpose for many who base their opinions on what they see in the MSM.


Think of the latest TSA privacy intrusions ... what recent pretext was used to instigate those?

I'm afraid, as stated in the op, the general public needs little to no pretext any more to acquiesce and incrementally surrender their personal freedoms. Within the scope of this thread, speaking of internet freedoms and censorship, that ship has long sailed.

This is not to completely disagree with your viewpoint ... for it is true that any pretext, even if one isn't needed, will be used to justify further intrusions. But they certainly don't need to go through all this trouble, including public diplomatic embarrassment, to manufacture public consent to this end.

There may or may not be a hidden hand with a hidden agenda in play in the WL events, observation and reason dictate, at least imho, that this particular one holds no validity ... mostly because the consequences so many declare they fear, have already manifested.


edit on 7 Dec 2010 by schrodingers dog because: syntaxleaks



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


thank you
beautiful thinking and inspirational
incrementalizim the act of the drip filling the bucket
the frog who doesnt feel the water boil slowly around you
and when some one stands up we the so called truth seekers
tell them sit down we like what we have dont make waves


you see that's not the approach i'm taking.. i think the vast that charge assange are those that read between the lies... i get that you want change, but what kind of change are you looking for, and moreso how is this what assange is giving you? from all looks of things there is no change. there is no questioning of 9/11.. there is nothing new under this sun. it all looks like the same old crap. we tell him to sit down, not because we want no ruffles, but because he isn't creating ruffles. same crap different toilet.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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I couldn't agree with you and the premise of your thread more SD ... starred and flagged.

I've been jaw-droppingly amazed at the number of people on here, ON ATS, who have used an argument that essentially contradicts itself... ie: 'TPTB are going to use Wikileaks revelations to curb our internet freedoms!'

What Internet freedom? ... If TPTB can curb or take away the internet because they don't like revealed truths, then the internet isn't free in the first place.

I posted a thread in Breaking News, linking to an important (IMO) article in The Guardian newspaper which goes nicely with the premise of this thread.... Doesn't seem to have been of much interest to the rank and file, so perhaps the article might get read by a few more people if I link to it in this thread... You may find it of interest too.


www.guardian.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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[Removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]


reply to post by SpaDe_
 


The funny this is that Assange IS one of the people who is trying to do something about this, and rather than rallying around him, we get all these paranoid nutjobs with stupid unsourced theories. This is the problem. Even when people TRY to do something, the people who should be most on their side turn on them and make a bunch of insane claims about their motives!

Mod Edit: Quoting – Please Review This Link.



edit on 2010/12/8 by GradyPhilpott because: replaced needless quote with proper tag



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Well put I will add that it seems these people haven't actually browsed the internet for awhile and seem to think wikileaks is the most damaging thing on it.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Yes... it makes perfect logical sense that Wikileaks is a "setup" simply because they haven't released official documents on 9/11 being a holographic missile attack, nor the fact that the US government is under the control of nefarious greys.. The fact these documents haven't been brought to light DOESN'T say anything about the theories, mind you, since they're absolutely true. because I believe so. So there.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


BRAVO! What will we do now. I am no hacktivist so I can't go on the front lines of the William Gibson novel we're entering (I read that in the Stranger Slog, not not my original thought). Donate? Write to congresscritterrs (although it's obvious that in the uso'a our politicians are on lockdown...) I think there are a lot of Americans like me incredibly upset with what is happening. Perhaps volunteering as a paralegal...? Ideas appreciated. All I know is it's time to pull up the grown-up pants.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 





The first problem with this line of thinking this: Where the hell have you been since circa 1990? Did you nap through the patriot act? Were you in the bathroom during warrantless wiretaps? Perhaps you were flogging your felafel each and every time over the last twenty or so years when your and my freedoms, within and outside the web, have been eroded away drop by drop Chinese water torture style?


Yeah gee cause the WL ops couldn't possible be another attack on freedom to add to a long list because of the previous attacks mentioned above.... Gee that makes perfect sense... Sigh!!!



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