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Texan calls for jail time for enforcing Obamacare

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posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by SirKnightE
 

You are asking for reliable sources for why Obamacare is bad for America?
What do you consider a "reliable" source?
How about YOU consider the "source" that produced Obamacare, and shoved it down our throat. Tell ME why I should trust THAT source, or why YOU should.
This is what gets me. You ask ATS members to prove to you why Obamacare is bad, but yet, you pretend that it has some real potential for good. I ask you, why? Where do you get the idea it has potential for good? Because it "appears" to answer the prayers of your GF and parents?
Maybe you should ask THEM why they believe it answers their prayers, and we could debunk that?
If you believe O Care is good...why? Can you be more specific than I am being?



Are you seriously still talking???
Go to time out, nothing you say is beneficial
You must live in Vidor right?
If your not gonna give a reasonable response, dont respond, I am not looking definite proof of anything because obviously none of you have it, especially you. All I ask for is a substantial response similar to the one "ldyserenity" gave. Not some sh!t you got off a Ron Paul website.
Obiviously no one has sat there and read all 2,00 pages of the bill, but there has to some stance as to why you dont want the bill besides the fact that you hate obama, democrats or immigrants, or what ever it is your affiliation go by. I stated before with my experience in Germany why I would not mind government provided health care, So how about you go back and read....
Again, You're dismiss

You remind me of these people:

edit on 6-12-2010 by SirKnightE because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by SirKnightE
 




None of this answers my questions, My ignorance on this matter is real, so I seek real answers, none of the sacasm helps AT ALL, so If you're just tryna to make some lame a$$ response to stir up some debate, please dont respond, your stupidity is not needed. This issue is real with plenty of people that do not have insurance, Like my parents and GF. Again all I hear is the same crap I hear off of FOX news, I'm not here for bullsh!t debate, so if there is someone with an ouce of intelligence to answer my simple question please feel free to clarify the benifits or concequences to ObamaCare with reliable sources please.


Whoa! Calm down there, SirKnightE.
No need for the attacks.
I went back and re-read your entire post, and there is no "simple question" in your post.
There is only this:



I would like someone to clarify to me exactly what the prolem is with "ObamCare".

and this



Like I said before, I dont follow politics too much, so if someone could please explain to me the evil behind ObamaCare.


This is a reply of mine from back in March, pretty much sums up my thoughts.



I have said for almost two decades that the healthcare system in the U.S. is wrecked, and I still believe that it needs to be fixed.

I fail to see how this bill changes much.

Look at who Obama, and our other Reps, invited to these closed door meetings to develop this bill.

Insurance companies, pharmaceauticals, unions, etc.

Did anyone ask The People what they wanted?

No, the very criminals responsible for our messed up health care system were the ones invited to write this new legislation.

This bill does not provide free health care for the poor or temporarily down and out.

We will all still be paying for health care.

While I don't believe this bill will actually reduce costs, let's pretend it does.

I have insurance through my wife's employer. We pay roughly $550/mnth.

Even if this bill reduces costs for those struggling by 40%, which is doubtful, how does that really help.

For people that have no health care, and are struggling to pay mortgage (if they still have one), pay bills,
and God forbid, put some decent food on the table,
does it really matter that the policy still costs $300/mnth vs. $550?

If you're broke, you're broke. $550, $300, $1000, the money isn't there, might as well be a million.


From this thread, Link to thread
which, in my opinion, was one of the better threads on Obamacare.



Again, I appreciate your response, and it also gives me a better view of why so many oppose the bill. But the rest of the nut jobs out there that are strictly opposing it for personal grudges with out giving a decent recent need not apply.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
As a Texan, I say GOOD. To the gentleman asking what people see wrong with this bill:

My son just turned two years old. Instead of having the ability to choose whether he needs health care at the time or not, he will now be FORCED to have health care. Not only will he be FORCED to have health care, but if he doesn't get it he could possibly face fines and jail time. The problem isnt that everybody DESERVES health care. Nobody deserves anything but the freedom of personal choice.

And in all honesty, I dont have health care either, but I'm a 24 year old college student. It's ok though, our jackass president extended health care benefits for dependents of civilians only. Too bad my mother fought two tours in Iraq. Us military dependents shouldn't have anything to worry about though, I mean, the military leaves us all so wealthy anyways right?


I'm honestly not sure where you're going with this. Are you complaining because they are forcing your 2y/o son to have health care? Do you not want him to have health care? Being a 24 y/o college student i'm sure you wont have much funds to pay for medical bill if he happens to fall out of tree doing crazy sh!t little boys are prone to doing. I'm honestly not sure if your being sarcastic or not.
You still fall under you mother as a dependent who served in the military, are you complaining about that as well. Your jackass president extended benefits for dependants...You think that is a bad thing?

I'm seriously lost on this one..
edit on 6-12-2010 by SirKnightE because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by SirKnightE
 


Here's the problem with Obamacare in a nutshell - the goal of any healthcare reform should be to cut costs, Obamacare makes costs higher, for that reason alone it is an abysmal failure.

Do you know that 17.3% of GDP is spent on healthcare in the US when it is only around 8% in England, and 10% or lower in nearly all of Europe. With that kind of room for savings somehow Obamacare is going to cost us more even according to the government accounting office. That is just pathetic.

Costs are up nearly 100% in the last 10 years. That far, far outstrips the growth in income which is near nothing in the same period of time. This pace of cost increase cannot continue - or literally only the super wealthy will have access to health care.

The greatest expense the US government has by far for the future, is medicare and medicaid - this bill was supposed to fix that problem - it does not, it makes it worse. Our government is so broke, our economy may literally collapse any day, and with near 100% certainty will collapse within 5 years.

The only way everyone can really get access to healthcare is if we bring down it's costs, nobody will have access to healthcare when the economy is destroyed, so saying access is what makes obamacare a success is a faulty argument.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by proximo
reply to post by SirKnightE
 


Here's the problem with Obamacare in a nutshell - the goal of any healthcare reform should be to cut costs, Obamacare makes costs higher, for that reason alone it is an abysmal failure.

Do you know that 17.3% of GDP is spent on healthcare in the US when it is only around 8% in England, and 10% or lower in nearly all of Europe. With that kind of room for savings somehow Obamacare is going to cost us more even according to the government accounting office. That is just pathetic.

Costs are up nearly 100% in the last 10 years. That far, far outstrips the growth in income which is near nothing in the same period of time. This pace of cost increase cannot continue - or literally only the super wealthy will have access to health care.

The greatest expense the US government has by far for the future, is medicare and medicaid - this bill was supposed to fix that problem - it does not, it makes it worse. Our government is so broke, our economy may literally collapse any day, and with near 100% certainty will collapse within 5 years.

The only way everyone can really get access to healthcare is if we bring down it's costs, nobody will have access to healthcare when the economy is destroyed, so saying access is what makes obamacare a success is a faulty argument.


I get your arguement, and I appreciate your response, although like I said unless I looked up the numbers myself I can go by what is presented. But my argument is based on the quality care that was given to my son and his mother in Germany. I know for a fact that this care is going to cost someone, somewhere. And like I stated previously, If I am required to sacrafice a $1,00 buck of my money to help millions get adequate health care, I honestly dont mind.... This is strictly my thinking.... Help the less fortunate... I have everything I want and need, and all the extra stuff is just junk that can be given to some one else who does not have a fraction of what I consider junk.
Am I really that wrong for being considerate that there are millions that need to live, and its gonna require a community of people to ensure their survival. I know many on ATS have no belief in any god, but even with out a god, it is a common think to look out for a neighbor or friend. So besides all the numbers and how much its gonna cost, I sure, no matter what the cost, it will benefit someone.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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Holy wow. Another attempt of yet another state to attempt to override or undo a Federal mandate for which the 10th in cases like this is null and void as this was a mandate from The people.

The true colours of the GOP is really showing. To be vile and filthy enough to want a sickened child to die. Darn. That is one of the principle tennets of the bill was to deny a carrier from denying coverage to any erson regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and socioeconomical status of any live saving measures.

Obamacare is offensive. Whoever coined that term is a moron. Remember 43's healthcare package, or even 40 or 41's? No right? Because there was not any. This was needed to be done 20 years ago and not now.

Anything that tries to help out the poor, sick, disabled, non white gets shot down and defeated all while protecting tax cuts for the rich. You now know right that any takedown southward of the econonmy now sits solely on the GOP. congrats. You're being set up for a calamity that you caused.

(Going after the party and not any particular person)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Holy wow. Another attempt of yet another state to attempt to override or undo a Federal mandate for which the 10th in cases like this is null and void as this was a mandate from The people.

The true colours of the GOP is really showing. To be vile and filthy enough to want a sickened child to die. Darn. That is one of the principle tennets of the bill was to deny a carrier from denying coverage to any erson regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and socioeconomical status of any live saving measures.

Obamacare is offensive. Whoever coined that term is a moron. Remember 43's healthcare package, or even 40 or 41's? No right? Because there was not any. This was needed to be done 20 years ago and not now.

Anything that tries to help out the poor, sick, disabled, non white gets shot down and defeated all while protecting tax cuts for the rich. You now know right that any takedown southward of the econonmy now sits solely on the GOP. congrats. You're being set up for a calamity that you caused.

(Going after the party and not any particular person)


OMG Acrid sour libs:
"this was a mandate from The people.


"Firstof all This was forced on the people
"uhm...uhmmm we have to pass the bill to tell you what's in it?")
If there's awall we'll pole vault over it, a fence; we'll dig under it. Hardly sounds like something "the people" wanted!


One guys refuses any explanation that doesn't comefrom the daily kos; white house.gov or the huffington post(the "you guys make me sick"??? guy).
This one is going the "you like to watch sick kids shrivel and die route "
Does that make sense to anybody?
Inorder to justify this the govt has created a huge ( HUGE) bureaucracy involved in every decision between you and your doctor. they are adding something like160,000 new IRS agents to handle all the paper work for the hidden taxes in this bill.

It's not about Healthcare!.
We'll see the "if we are paying for your healthcare we have a say in what you eat(we see it already in school lunch programs)

Libbys answer me this: If they want to provide "free " healthcare. Why totally trash the exiting system? Why not build local free hospitals open to all Americans? ( even open all VA hospitals to all Americans?
Withoutall the bureacracy????.

Because they wouldn't get the $600.00 cash tracking requirement for the IRS. They want to rein in the "underground economy". Any business that pays $600or ,more for a service must supply the govt with a 1099 tracking that expenditure.They certainly don't want small business and freelancers to survive.
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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Holy wow. Another attempt of yet another state to attempt to override or undo a Federal mandate for which the 10th in cases like this is null and void as this was a mandate from The people.

The true colours of the GOP is really showing. To be vile and filthy enough to want a sickened child to die. Darn. That is one of the principle tennets of the bill was to deny a carrier from denying coverage to any erson regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and socioeconomical status of any live saving measures.

Obamacare is offensive. Whoever coined that term is a moron. Remember 43's healthcare package, or even 40 or 41's? No right? Because there was not any. This was needed to be done 20 years ago and not now.

Anything that tries to help out the poor, sick, disabled, non white gets shot down and defeated all while protecting tax cuts for the rich. You now know right that any takedown southward of the econonmy now sits solely on the GOP. congrats. You're being set up for a calamity that you caused.

(Going after the party and not any particular person)


OMG Acrid sour libs:
"this was a mandate from The people.


"Firstof all This was forced on the people
"uhm...uhmmm we have to pass the bill to tell you what's in it?")
If there's awall we'll pole vault over it, a fence; we'll dig under it. Hardly sounds like something "the people" wanted!


One guys refuses any explanation that doesn't comefrom the daily kos; white house.gov or the huffington post(the "you guys make me sick"??? guy).
This one is going the "you like to watch sick kids shrivel and die route "
Does that make sense to anybody?
Inorder to justify this the govt has created a huge ( HUGE) bureaucracy involved in every decision between you and your doctor. they are adding something like160,000 new IRS agents to handle all the paper work for the hidden taxes in this bill.

It's not about Healthcare!.
We'll see the "if we are paying for your healthcare we have a say in what you eat(we see it already in school lunch programs)

Libbys answer me this: If they want to provide "free " healthcare. Why totally trash the exiting system? Why not build local free hospitals open to all Americans? ( even open all VA hospitals to all Americans?
Withoutall the bureacracy????.

Because they wouldn't get the $600.00 cash tracking requirement for the IRS. They want to rein in the "underground economy". Any business that pays $600or ,more for a service must supply the govt with a 1099 tracking that expenditure.They certainly don't want small business and freelancers to survive.
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The people have been demanding healthcare reform since the 1950's and that is fact. Every single group who helps the people was and continues to remain for this. AARP got ran through the ringer. The lobbying groups who are working for the insurance firms made sure that a law like this never saw the light of day.

If the racist GOP is serious about repealing this you better make damn sure that you can afford your healthcare because if you get sick you will get dropped.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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Which"people" would that be? Care to speak to the huge Bureacracy??govt allowed full acces to all financial records???Oh yeah thats a way to cut costs.
The whole idea is to drive the insurance companies out of the business so we all HAVE to rely on the gov.

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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Why is this bad, I can tell you from first hand DAILY experience. I drive for a health care facility. I have some residents that have to have dialysis 2 or 3 times a week. now here is the catch, public transport is contracted to carry them to their appointments. but if A. the resident is not ready or B the carrier doesn't feel like showing up. ( in either case I have to fill in as transport to the Dialysis center) they are NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSPORT THEM BACK. which is all well and good and sounds fair right? They get paid regardless. read that again. So in effect it is in the carriers Best interest to NOT PICK THEM UP. yet get PAID for doing Nothing. AInt the Guberment just grand?????????

This is the Current law, and just one of my many nightmares I deal with daily. now expand this to the entire country. the folks that "need" care wont get it but the "bills" will be paid even for no "work" (healthcare) being provided. why "work' when the Guberment will pay you for doing nothing. Of course the private Citizen will have to pay, or go to jail.

Alternatively, I have been paying Social Security for about 35 years now, but when I retire there will be no money for me in that. Like forced healthcare you will pay and pay and pay, but when you really need it; Sorry we used that Money on something else.

The "other" reason it's a scam, those in power forcing it on us, wont use it for themselves, thats speaks Volumes ( for those listening)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by SirKnightE

I get your arguement, and I appreciate your response, although like I said unless I looked up the numbers myself I can go by what is presented. But my argument is based on the quality care that was given to my son and his mother in Germany. I know for a fact that this care is going to cost someone, somewhere. And like I stated previously, If I am required to sacrafice a $1,00 buck of my money to help millions get adequate health care, I honestly dont mind.... This is strictly my thinking.... Help the less fortunate... I have everything I want and need, and all the extra stuff is just junk that can be given to some one else who does not have a fraction of what I consider junk.
Am I really that wrong for being considerate that there are millions that need to live, and its gonna require a community of people to ensure their survival. I know many on ATS have no belief in any god, but even with out a god, it is a common think to look out for a neighbor or friend. So besides all the numbers and how much its gonna cost, I sure, no matter what the cost, it will benefit someone.


It's great that you have everything you want, need and consider all your other items as junk.

What you fail to grasp is the simple concept that forcing someone to do something against their will is Tyranny regardless of the rose colored trappings associated with it. Do what you like with your money. Don't hold a gun to my head and demand I do the same.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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I read the "healthcare" bill Congress passed and Texas isn't happy about now.

By July 2010 all States were supposed to have websites up showing us sheeple our available options we must pick from....for the new mandatory Federal Tax.

No State yet has created the mandatory website. The November elections likely is why it was put on the back burner.

Those elections are over, States can be FINED now for failing to have ObamaCare websites up.

States have ZERO standing to stand against the Federal Government. IF you remember correctly we LOST the Civil War that was fought over State Sovereignty.

Texas is NOT a sovereign State. It is a POSSESSION of the Federal Government. Their plan to stop ObamaCare will be futile. Chicago politics will punish Texas and liberate them of some of their money via FINES, or withholding massive Federal Funding.

Texas is NOBODY in the world anymore. Back in the day they had power to remain sovereign. Not anymore.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by Pervius
I read the "healthcare" bill Congress passed and Texas isn't happy about now.

By July 2010 all States were supposed to have websites up showing us sheeple our available options we must pick from....for the new mandatory Federal Tax.

No State yet has created the mandatory website. The November elections likely is why it was put on the back burner.

Those elections are over, States can be FINED now for failing to have ObamaCare websites up.

States have ZERO standing to stand against the Federal Government. IF you remember correctly we LOST the Civil War that was fought over State Sovereignty.

Texas is NOT a sovereign State. It is a POSSESSION of the Federal Government. Their plan to stop ObamaCare will be futile. Chicago politics will punish Texas and liberate them of some of their money via FINES, or withholding massive Federal Funding.

Texas is NOBODY in the world anymore. Back in the day they had power to remain sovereign. Not anymore.

Sorry ( sour grapes?); You seem to be laboring under the impression the fedgov owns the 50states.When in fact the constitution provides the format for a federal level govt and all rights and responsibilities not directly delineated to the fed gov remain with the states or the people.
Attitudes like that mean we may unfortunately see a reprisal by the sovereign citizens against the tyrannical behemouth rising in the District of columbia.
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posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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HHS threatens Insurance Companies

September 15, 2010

Imagine you can only buy a car from a company on a government exchange. The government determines what car companies can be on the exchange. They then give the car companies new requirements that will cost these companies more money than before. When the car companies raise their prices per car to account for these changes the Car Czar sends a threatening letter to the car companies saying they will no longer be allowed on the exchange.

Sound Crazy? Well, it just happened. The industry is the health insurance industry and the czar is HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. Except for some extreme left kool-aid drinkers, everyone at this point understands that this legislation does not reduce health care costs for the government or the individual. It is common sense that if you force these companies to cover more, it will cost more. This administration is just trying to punish companies for telling the truth because it is damaging to their case.

The scariest thing about this whole ordeal is that it illustrates the amount of power that this legislation gave to Sebelius. We must remember that this legislation defers decisions to the Secretary over 1,000 times. She basically has unlimited powers, one of which is determining the requirements of companies to be in the upcoming exchange. She appears to already be flexing her muscles a bit. It is exactly what the early progressives wanted.

Here is her letter by the way. She tries to say that the bill does not increase costs, but that defies common sense. This really has little to do with costs anyways. Her actions in this case are a perfect example of the dangers a powerful central government present; dangers that the founders warned us about and early progressives ignored…and are still ignoring today.




thesteadyconservative.com...


Leave me be now; I've gotta' go watch some sick children shriek; shrivel and die from a completely curable illness.



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posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Anyone who calls it "Obamacare" is using a right-wing propaganda term..... Which basically means... even though you THINK you have awakened... you are STILL asleep and are basically acting as Right-wing sheeple.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualzombie
Anyone who calls it "Obamacare" is using a right-wing propaganda term..... Which basically means... even though you THINK you have awakened... you are STILL asleep and are basically acting as Right-wing sheeple.



Well IMHO it certainly can't be called a: "HEALTH CARE BILL"

BTW care to step off the adhominen attack and explain how that spaghetti mess of an organizational chart above is going to cut health care costs?


What "I think " is of no consequence to you.

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posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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What's kind of disappointing is the fact that almost everyone has resigned to believe that this government or even corporate America are to blame. That is just a mask to hide behind, because real life people are behind this. It is just a cop out. There are definitely people to blame and not entities for the direction this world is taking. That is probably the easiest way to sell people into doing the dirty work. I remember a really sweet rant off a Stone Sour album, Come Whatever May, he says that government is another way of saying, better than you. Everything and everyone in gov screams sellout to me. Surely at the highest levels. But gov is the mask they wear.

People should realize that an elected official is synonymous with professional liar. Even at the local level, just not as bad. Because everyone has an agenda. If you don't, you will easily be replaced by someone who does. There are puppetmasters up high who trick these folks who were most likely innocent and humane at one point in life, until they figured out that they can't change the game so they dutifully fall back in line. At least me and mine are taken care of is the mentality. That is the essence.

This is going to go down as the simplest way to gain the servitude of the populace. ALMOST EVERYBODY was born in a hospital and were written up as a certified live birth. Tracked and controlled since birth. Pretty dang effective way to keep tabs on everyone. Thats what I see, and many others too. Thats why there is opposition to this bill. There will be alot of losers off this. Its alot like slavery. Making it sound like you have freedom of choice in this matter is a very dubious justification. And there are tons of those kinds out there.

The rationale was based on the whole motor vehicle liability laws. That in itself is pretty unfair. If a person becomes sick, through no fault of their own, they should be given a free ride. Kind of the same principle used with a motor vehicle. Health insurance has never worked on the same principle. Force people to buy a product or service they don't want. Quality of care will go down because what will you be able to do about it. It'll be cheaper to string folks along than it will be to actually help someone in need. Because a hospital is still a business at the end of the day.

Just my commentary.

One other thing I'd like to mention to all the communist/socialist subscribers out there, this isn't even close. This is straight up fascist in nature. This is government being in control of business, and business running the government. It's so in-your-face that it's ignored, and why conspiracy theories abound, when it really is so much simpler than that.



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by SirKnightE
 


i for one don't support "obamacare" for the simple fact that its forced on ppl to spend money. the health care isn't free, you must pay for it or be given fines or jail time. i feel its unconstitutional to force someone to buy something they don't want or use. im healthy as an OX. Haven't had the need for a doctor in over 8 years, why should i be forced into paying for something i might use once a decade? i can just pay the doctors for that one visit instead! Oh wait i forgot.. if i just pay the doctor for my visit than the money isn't going straight into the governments pocket. thats right. Because its not like they haven't already lost trillions of dollars with no explanation of where it went. These ppl are responsible enough to take my money and spend however they like. HA yea right. Its all a ploy to take more money and put an even bigger gap between the rich and poor. Do you really think they are only doing it so ppl will be healthier?
Besides the fact that even though the majority of Americans voted against it somehow it was still passed, and if for no other reason that that i refuse to support it. Its out right abuse of power
edit on 9-12-2010 by PApro because: update



posted on Dec, 9 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


Obamacare sounds quite a bit more reasonable than: pump you in the crapper care. Both are accurate but you can readily see where the former is more palatable than the latter.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by SirKnightE
reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Is this just the common acceptance of whats gonna happen by word of mouth. Where are the actual documents showing detailed concequences to it. I can listen to the media all day and hear opposing views, but until I read the benifits or concequences of the bill myself I can accept what you say nor what defenders of the bill state. According to what I read from the link provided, I see none of that. That all sounds like the stuff I hear on FOX news everyday at work.

Alot of these reasons some of you propose seems to just be regurgited "new" from those who appose the bill. Of coarse nothing is free, but my main thing is I really dont have a problem dishing out $1,00 bucks to help millions of others that do not have health care and need it.


Originally posted by SirKnightE
But as I stated not everyone has a giving mentality like myself, and I am absolutly fine with that.

Well aren't we "enlightened".You just insulted anybody who has their own reasons
" but if you all want to be "A-holes" I'm O.K. with that".
( I don't think I speak for myself when I say:" go rotate your own"self righteous giving self").


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