Emptiness and Nirvana

reply to post by Tryptych


"Final Illumination" would be explained (so to speak) by the following terminologies:

Paramarthasatya, Anklad, and Podkoolad.

Paramarthasatya is a Sanskrit word; and Anklad and Podkoolad are terms that both Gurdjieff and Samael Aun Weor wrote about.

"For as long as space remains, and for as long as wandering beings remain, may I, too, remain for that long, dispelling the sufferings of wandering beings." - Shantideva

"There are two capital things in our Gnostic studies:

"First, to remember ourselves, that is to say, to remember our own Being and second, the relaxation of the body.

"To remember oneself and to relax the body is something that we have to do constantly."
- Samael Aun Weor

The problem with this teaching from Weor and all those pre Adi Da is we are being told what we need to do BUT NOT HOW TO DO IT. We are told to stop thinking,relax the body,and to remember our true nature. But all of these actions are Ego based and this defeats their own purpose. This is the conventional path of ego based ascent through willful effort.
Adi Da says All the Paths are false.
The True Self is not found through seeking since It is prior to Seeking. Thus He tells us to Understand that we are always seeking and thus abandon it spontaneously in Communion with the Divine.

I think the key issue is not to give in to the "lower" desires, means lust. To my experience, that drops the vibrational frequency of the individual and slows down the rise of the resonance that (to my experience) is the nature of higher states. Theres nothing really wrong about that, it's like tumbling down the stairs and having to start all over
"They do not achieve anything in these studies. Grey Tantra was symbolized in Greek mythology by Sisyphus, who after struggling intensely to raise the boulder of sex upon a hill, would subsequently drop it down to the bottom again. If you want to raise the sexual energy of Yesod to the mount of your skull, you must never drop it. To do so is to lose all your previous work."

Here we have the Mystical Path to Enlightenment, yet there really is no evidence that it works and produces Enlightened beings because the number of such beings is so low. A great many people perhaps millions, try this path and only a handful reach Realization and that is because of their unique brain biology,unknown factors, and not the willful effort to raise the Kundalini.

I have experienced this Kundalini Serpent rising in a twisting motion through my ckakras. It is an intense experience but not Enlightenment.


Collision with the Infinite; Suzanne Segal

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Tryptych

 

Question: How much sorrow can the joy of realization bear..?

Adi Da: "When a person reaches Enlightenment the cycles of high and low have reached the speed of Infinity."

And many of Adi Das' books and other authors ,including The Knee of Listening are available for free by just cliking on the highlighted text link.

Originally posted by Tamahu

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

In the context of what I've quoted and posted in this thread, I agree with everything you've written there.

The reason why it is said "in the context of what I've quoted and posted in this thread" is because according to the Gnostic tradition, Krishnamurti is a genuine Bodhisattva; yet he did not deliver the complete message, due to certain psychological traumas that were inflicted upon him by well-intentioned members of the Theosophical Society.

If we consider that Buddhism is "divided" (for lack of a better term) into Nine Vehicles (see my posts on page one of this thread), Krishnamurti seems to have taught aspects of the First, Second, Third, and Ninth Vehicles of Buddhism; but not the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Vehicles.

The Nine Yanas are:

Shravakayana, Pratyekayana, Bodhisattva, Kriyayoga, Charyayoga–Upayoga–Upayayoga, Yoga-Tantra, Mahayoga, Anuyoga, Atiyoga (Atiyoga being known as Mahasandhi, Dzogchen, or Thigle-Chenpo)

These said Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Vehicles (Tantrayana) of Buddhism contain crucial tools, that are very useful for understanding our Being, and also for understanding how our egos work (the egos are very tricky and sly).

If we think that we can comprehend all of our conflicting desires and beliefs (kleshas or klesas and klishtas or klistas) or egos (for they are a legion, not just one) without Chaste Sexual Transmutation, then we ought to examine why we think this.

Genuine Meditation is the Heart of the Doctrine; yet proper Transmutation is the Foundation for deep Meditation.

Tantrayana teaches that lust is extreme, and that sexual suppression is also extreme.

Transmutation, Alchemy (Tantra), is the Middle Way.


The above is why I suggested the books by Samael Aun Weor in your Gold Mind thread. The chapter from one of the said books, on The Krishnamurti Case, can be found in its entirety HERE, if you're interested.

edit on 10-12-2010 by Tamahu because: edited text

Wow, thats a lot of good stuff. Thanks!

Yea, I read that Krishnamurti Case and it explained a lot to me which I did not know of him. I would agree in saying he was not complete in his teachings, and that Theosophical stuff prolly had something to do with that, but overall I think he was on the right track by saying all this studying and practice is more conditioning. Sometimes his frustration and/or Ego would get in the way of his teachings though, that is one thing I noticed, but I try and look passed that because he did offer so many great insights and ideas.

Thanks again!

Originally posted by RRokkyy
The problem with this teaching from Weor and all those pre Adi Da is we are being told what we need to do BUT NOT HOW TO DO IT.

Samael Aun Weor taught literally hundreds of practices for us to be able to actually do it.

Not that we have to practice all of them. It is just that he gave us so many various actual practices (not intellectual theories) to choose from, because various individuals have different idiosyncrasies. Although there are certain core practices that are foundational and essential.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
Here we have the Mystical Path to Enlightenment, yet there really is no evidence that it works and produces Enlightened beings because the number of such beings is so low. A great many people perhaps millions, try this path and only a handful reach Realization

The only evidence that it works, is seen by actually doing it ourselves. The Esoteric Path, has only been publicly hinted at and taught publicly in veiled-form prior to the writing of The Perfect Matrimony. And the reason for this is karma.

It is even said that Samael Aun Weor only taught–in his 70 books and dozens of lectures–3% of what he knew, in order to provide the keys for entering Initiation.

It seems that Adi Da's teachings were trying to express what was taught by Jiddu Krishnamurti and also the Dzogchen teachings. Although if you're interested in learning about real Dzogchen (Adi-Yoga), you could go back in this thread and read the post where the Dalai Lama is quoted in regard to what he said about Adiyoga (Dzogchen).

Anyhow, it is not that the authentic Tantric methods and other authentic practices don't work. It is simply that many people are not aware of them. And the ones who are aware of them, usually aren't consistent with their daily, and moment to moment practices. They are not consistent, due to so much desire and also because of defeatism. Nevertheless, it must be possible to enter Initiation–despite the extremely psychologically heavy atmosphere of this planet–in order to attain Nirvana in one lifetime.

From what I've learned, our planet is unique in that it happens to have perhaps the heaviest karma out of all of the planets in the galaxy.

A Confusing Matter: The Mistake of the Gods

Concerning The Kundabuffer Organ, Lemuria And The Fall Of Humanity! (see post #10)

Are We, Or Aren't We The Only Messed Up Planet? (see posts #3, #5, and #7)

“Adi is a Sanskrit term, meaning “the Primordial” – not merely in the sense of primeval but in the absolute sense of transcending origins altogether – indeed being prior to time and space. The term Adi (Vajrayana Ati and Vedanta Adhi) implies the divine boundless awareness of existence itself.“

Originally posted by Tamahu
Samael Aun Weor taught literally hundreds of practices for us to be able to actually do it.

Not that we have to practice all of them. It is just that he gave us so many various actual practices (not intellectual theories) to choose from, because various individuals have different idiosyncrasies. Although there are certain core practices that are foundational and essential.



The only evidence that it works, is seen by actually doing it ourselves. The Esoteric Path, has only been publicly hinted at and taught publicly in veiled-form prior to the writing of The Perfect Matrimony. And the reason for this is karma.

It is even said that Samael Aun Weor only taught–in his 70 books and dozens of lectures–3% of what he knew, in order to provide the keys for entering Initiation.

It seems that Adi Da's teachings were trying to express what was taught by Jiddu Krishnamurti and also the Dzogchen teachings. Although if you're interested in learning about real Dzogchen (Adi-Yoga), you could go back in this thread and read the post where the Dalai Lama is quoted in regard to what he said about Adiyoga (Dzogchen).

Anyhow, it is not that the authentic Tantric methods and other authentic practices don't work. It is simply that many people are not aware of them. And the ones who are aware of them, usually aren't consistent with their daily, and moment to moment practices. They are not consistent, due to so much desire and also because of defeatism. Nevertheless, it must be possible to enter Initiation–despite the extremely psychologically heavy atmosphere of this planet–in order to attain Nirvana in one lifetime.

From what I've learned, our planet is unique in that it happens to have perhaps the heaviest karma out of all of the planets in the galaxy.

And the Maharishi gave a unique and worthless Mantra to each student for a large fee. Hundreds of practices are all the nasty disciplines as described by Adi Da. No doubt if you fail at the first 100 they will tell you to try the next hundred for a fee of course. And even if you like the nasty discipline,staring at the spot on the floor forever,or thinking about koans til mad, that doesnt make them the Truth.


Weir only taught 3% of what he knew. What was he saving the rest for? Is this Initiation secret? Shaktipat?

You do admit there is a Lack of Enlightenment on this Planet. Being that we are the First Men and Women to produce an advanced civilization I say it is that we are not Evolved Biologically for Enlightenment.

Adi Da's Teaching is Unique and Complete,and nothing is Hidden. He is the Fourth Great Avatar. His Two Word Mantra is Unique and is the same as God's Mantra. God is the Supreme Meditator. Adi Da tells us to Meditate the Same as God. God is NoSeeking in the Divine Heart, the Teaching is NoSeeking. All the Paths are Garbage. The Teaching is the Sacrifice of the EgoSelf not the Ascent of the EgoSelf. There is no Ascent to God, it only appears so. Narcissus does not actually want God Realization. He just wants the Spiritual Experiences or more typically the ways of the world.

Narcissus is the Reluctant Devotee.

Looks like we have the makings for a classic spiritual showdown here, between that of

Samael Aun Weor vs. Adi Da

And I was of the impression that this thread had long ago served its purpose.

pulling down the mic - Ladies and Gentlemen...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Looks like we have the makings for a classic spiritual showdown here, between that of

Samael Aun Weor vs. Adi Da

And I was of the impression that this thread had long ago served its purpose.

pulling down the mic - Ladies and Gentlemen...

You are still reading it. LOL
The Truth is quickly turned into something Narcissus can
live with rather than sacrifice himself.
The Non-duality Teaching of Jesus was turned into
the Pagan Ritual Human Sacrifice Cult.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
And the Maharishi gave a unique and worthless Mantra to each student for a large fee. Hundreds of practices are all the nasty disciplines as described by Adi Da. No doubt if you fail at the first 100 they will tell you to try the next hundred for a fee of course. And even if you like the nasty discipline,staring at the spot on the floor forever,or thinking about koans til mad, that doesnt make them the Truth.

Samael Aun Weor never charged money. He also never claimed that anyone can enter Initiation just by repeating a Mantra.

The thing about Spiritual practices and methods, is that they only work if we perform them Consciously, and if we are handling our Sexual Energy in the right way. The main reason why so many people in the past have given up on practices, is because they did not consider these factors.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
Being that we are the First Men and Women to produce an advanced civilization I say it is that we are not Evolved Biologically for Enlightenment.

I emphatically disagree with that statement, because there is nothing substantial which shows that this contemporary barbaric society was the first to produce a genuinely advanced Civilization.

And we actually are "Evolved Biologically for Enlightenment", because we have within us the most subtle, yet most powerful forces in the Cosmos': The Consciousness and the Sexual Energy.


About Mahasandhi, Atiyoga, Adiyoga, or Dzogchen. Yes, It Is Primordial, not merely in the sense of being something of the past. It Is Primordial in that It Is both Beyond and the Supreme Source of, the past, present, and future.
However, an intellectual concept alone of the Great Perfection, does not indicate Being Consciously in the Natural State of the Great Perfection. Merely believing in the Absolute, does not make us Conscious of It.

For me to say any more about this would be pointless as of now, especially considering that much of what I was about to say has already been addressed in this thread.


Anyhow, in order to further clarify:

Lucifer (Post #7)

From a Buddhist perspective, there are two perspectives which are like two trees that share the same roots. To explain it Kabbalistically, we can say that the true nature of a thing is the Ain Soph, which transcends duality, the perceiver and perceived etc. That is the Seity. On the other hand, under the Absolute, within the created and manifested universe, duality is the seed of everything that seems to exist. The problem occurs when you don't understand both of these perspectives. If you forget about the Seity, then you believe that everything is happening and occuring as it seems to be happening according to your so-called awareness--this is the root ignorance and this is why the ego becomes identified. On the other hand, if we were to think that there isn't relative existence and that dualism is a lie, then we ignore the understanding of the mechanics of the manifested universe (which leads again into delusion) and therefore could not ever attain liberation from the mechanics of this universe. Therefore, in order to be liberated or above Good and Evil, you must have the Knowledge of Good and Evil....


Lucifer begins in the Absolute. He (It) begins in the Omeyocan, where there exists only the YOALLI-EHECATL (Darkness and Wind).
When Lucifer (the light that comes from fire or INRI) descends, he (Lucifer, Quetzalcoatl, Xolotl etc) illuminates the manifested universe and creates every world, dimension, sephirah, realm etc.
He takes his seat at the right hand of God (Chockmah). Then, out of compassion and sacrifice sends forth his light to continue his creative work.
He establishes every corner of creation. He is Light and Sound. He descends into matter. When he descends into matter, he activates movement within the dead, uncreated matter. Thus, life can flourish within the worlds of four elements (giving every Being, or particular individual aspects of this Light a chance to realize Itself).
Inside the living terrestrial beings of one, two and three brains, Lucifer dwells inside as their fire (sexual creative energy). Inside of matter, Lucifer becomes a shadow (the Light Shineth In Darkness...). Inside the minds of Humanoids, the light becomes trapped within shells (Klippoth, egos etc.) and thus transforms into Satan, the enemy of the Light.
Lucifer then recognizes this. Lucifer gives the oppertunity for this, because Lucifer is Light and Fire. Lucifer gives the soul the ability to recognize oneself in the darkness and even become liberated from it. Thus, with Lucifer, Satan was created. With Lucifer, Satan can be destroyed. With Lucifer we can become lost in the abyss. With Lucifer we can reach the highest heights of creation.

We should not be afraid of Lucifer. His potency is inside of our sexual glands but his essence is in everything created.

Do you understand this?

Daath, the Doorway to Knowledge (1): The Dalai Lama talks explicitly about eliminating the ego.

Audience: He says it is illusion.

Instructor: It is illusion, but it is real, too. This is the problem, and this is the same problem that certain Tibetan schools propagate. Yes, the ego is illusion, it is maya, but that does not mean it is without matter or energy. This is the fundamental problem that happened in Buddhism centuries ago, and in Hinduism, that caused a great split in various schools. This is this intellectual debate about truth. The problem is that when you analyze the scriptures like Vedanta or Madhyamaka or certain tantric scriptures that talk about the nature of maya, or illusion, they state very clearly, especially in the higher schools like Dzogchen that the ego is illusion, so it does not exist. It is not real. Therefore, we should just awaken consciousness and disregard the ego. So a lot of these modern groups are taking that as their evidence.

What they fail to realize is that the teaching about the illusory ego belongs to the ninth yana, the highest tantra, and to reach that you have to have first comprehended all the previous yanas (vehicles), which state that the ego is real and must be eliminated. So, how do you resolve that apparent contradiction? True Dzogchen, Mahamudra, or Taoist practitioners do not ignore the ego. Someone who has genuinely consciously reached the level of working at that level has developed right view, which is the capacity to perceive prajna, wisdom. Prajna is the ability to see the two truths simultaneously. That person recognizes that conventional truth exists and so does ultimate truth. In other words, you have a physical body, but it does not exist. And there is no contradiction. You do have a physical body, but it is mostly empty air. The ego is the same. You have an ego, but it doesn’t exist.

Audience: It is impermanent.

Instructor: Well, it is impermanent, but avoiding it does not cause it to cease to exist. This is the misconception. There are certain tantric Buddhist groups who teach this, that you do not need to worry about the ego. They say you just awaken your consciousness, and do not worry about the ego. The result is they all awaken their consciousness but in the ego, and they do not realize it. They awaken their consciousness, but as demons, as devils.

Audience: The Dalai Lama said that the medicine is illusionary also, so it is like a magician that covers one illusion with another…

Instructor: It is true, but you have to see it at the level he is talking. He is talking about the highest tantra yoga, Dzogchen. From the perspective of Dzogchen, it is true. It is true, but until you can consciously with awakened consciousness perceive that, you are wasting your time. This is why, in all the ancient times, throughout centuries, those teachings were hidden, because we who are asleep cannot understand it. We who are asleep, who are blind, who have no spiritual vision, hear that the ego is illusion, we think, “Oh, good. I am ready to go to heaven.” No. We are asleep, and those teachings were hidden because we cannot understand until we awaken our consciosuness and can see consciously what those teachings mean. When we awaken, we can understand it a little bit, but it is not easy. Dzogchen and Mahamudra and the teachings that relay that profound knowledge are very difficult to grasp, even with the consciousness. With the intellect it is impossible, impossible. Unfortunately all these groups now are using those sacred teachings to mislead people.

reply to post by RRokkyy


Jesus' teachings ARE non-duality, and the sacrifice of the man of sorrows, also worthwhile, in light of the demontration he needed to make in Jerusalem, he couldn't get out of that fateful calling and knew full well in advance just what he was getting himself into. His mind is like a rose, surrounded by thorns, carrying the full load of human sin and sorrow and strife, for a higher purpose of love ie: there is no greater love than that of a man who is willing to lay down his life for his friends, and then we have the washing of the disciples feet. It's extraordinary.

I guess what I'm saying is that we too must have a non-dual perspective of Jesus himself, which is not unwilling to sympathize, with the sympathetic sufferer, who also contains the joy, and the laughter, the humorous creativity, on the other side of the sorrow. Jesus carried it. The whole thing. I will not belittle the meaning or the significance of that act, and just maybe, it presents a gateway, of eternal life and freedom, not the least of which is the freedom to freely love, and to become more fully self expressed, liberated.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion" C.S. Lewis

Adi Da would say the same thing.

And Samael Aun Weor.

Narcissis is only narcissistic when he's staring at a reflection of himself in the mirror. The wholly authentic self liberated human being however, is surely the objective, so that we can enter an infinitely more loving realm of everlasting life and freedom, even fun and playfullness. A sense of great mirth, and tender loving kindness, which as an eternal love between lover and beloved other in bhakti, wells up into eternal life, and the God realization, but just not without abandoning the path of love, of loving service and loving devotion.

We either have that, as Adi Da would say, made manifest in action, mirthful, humourous action, or we don't.

This is twice now that you've called me Narcissis. Maybe you should look in the mirror first.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Wow, thats a lot of good stuff. Thanks!

Yea, I read that Krishnamurti Case and it explained a lot to me which I did not know of him. I would agree in saying he was not complete in his teachings, and that Theosophical stuff prolly had something to do with that, but overall I think he was on the right track by saying all this studying and practice is more conditioning. Sometimes his frustration and/or Ego would get in the way of his teachings though, that is one thing I noticed, but I try and look passed that because he did offer so many great insights and ideas.

Thanks again!

You're welcome.

Yeah that chapter about the Krishnamurti Case has a lot of subtle aspects to it that are not easy to grasp at first. Nonetheless, Samael Aun Weor does say that Krishnamurti is overall a Highly Realized Being. In reference to your ATS avatar, Samael Aun Weor also wrote positive things about Gandhi, and Einstein too. I don't think he ever wrote about Martin Luther King Jr. though.

In your The Gold Mind thread, I had suggested Igneous Rose, which is an excellent book. Although I must say that after having read much of it, I've noticed that it is mainly intended for those who have already completed the Third Initiation of Major Mysteries. (The Seven Serpents that are seen Raised above the Buddha's head in many statues, indicate that said Buddha had gone beyond the first Seven Initiations of Major Mysteries). Even so, and whether one is at that level or not, there still is much to learn from it.

However, you may want to study first The Revolution of the Dialectic (and also the free Meditation Course I posted a link to a couple pages back) and the already-mentioned Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology and Criminology.

The Introduction to Gnostic Meditation and Dream Yoga courses are astonishingly profound.

reply to post by Tamahu


So are you suggesting then, that when Jesus said "therefore, be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven IS perfect" that he was referring to Tantric Sex?

Originally posted by filosophia
What is emptiness?

Form is emptiness. This means that whatever shape, color, or contour a thing takes, it is inherently empty, an illusion, a composite of different angles, measurements, and shades to make up what we perceive to be relative to an ideal archetype of a thing.

There for you become a walking talking zombie after you empty out, no feelings, no compasion for your human kind. A robot.

Emptiness is the natural state of existence. A nothingness. An emptiness devoid of any real being, any real self. Without the sun or any other energy, life would be a nothingness, it would be empty.

I would say it's the other way around, your are not born empty, and nothing is empty. Further more what you call empty is your neuro receptors in your brain that were vibing and got deleted, this can only happen by ingesting some kind of drug, it cuts thru the links of the neurons established along your life. It is only to point out that you are not born that way, so how can you call it natural ?

Nirvana is the realization of this truth of reality.

Nirvana equals to the cremation of care, same as bohimiam grove. You become a walking machine.
It's all it is, you burn out your internal links and your nerves. After that you are dry out.

Life is suppose to be an expiriance, wisdom comes thru you by that by your feelings, by a sense of getting a touch with your feelings. Of course this will only dumb you down, you won't be able to learn, not only that but you will not want to learn, you will want to kill your self.

If you can see past the BS then you must notice that this is what they plan, for better control of the population and why not population reduction.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This in itself could turn into more discussion about various subtle Kabbalistic teachings, Solar Bodies, Lunar Bodies, past and present Mahamanvantaras, Elemental Buddhas and Self-Realized Buddhas, etc.

But it suffices to say, that what Yeshua Ben Pandira said there in the Book of Matthew, shows that we are not saved from all of our karma by simply believing.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born [Hei: womb] of water [Mem: sex] and of the Spirit [Shin: fire], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:5

The Fuel for Spiritual Experience (3): Bodhichitta

This book is recommended in the lecture: Bodhicharyavatara.

"Ah, Lord God, my holy Lover, when You come into my heart, all that is within me will rejoice. You are my glory and the exultation of my heart. You are my hope and refuge in the day of my tribulation. But because my love is as yet weak and my virtue imperfect, I must be strengthened and comforted by You. Visit me often, therefore, and teach me Your holy discipline. Free me from evil passions and cleanse my heart of all disorderly affection so that, healed and purified within, I may be fit to love, strong to suffer, and firm to persevere. [...]Love is watchful. Sleeping, it does not slumber. Wearied, it is not tired. Pressed, it is not straitened. Alarmed, it is not confused, but like a living flame, a burning torch, it forces its way upward and passes unharmed through every obstacle." - Thomas a Kempis, The Imitation of Christ

reply to post by Tamahu


About Krishnamurti.. When I checked him out after I read (a part) of the Secret Doctrine, I felt that he kind of missed the point of Blavatsky's teaching. You said that he was traumatized by the Theos. Society. I've heard some less than flattering things about them. I'm personally NOT interested in societies like that AT ALL. Or cults, you could say. I'm only interested in the original teachings.

Almost everybody who has tried to interpret Blavatsky, (IMO again), usually fails. Also, there's a lot outright insane claims in the book: I don't believe in Root Races, Lemurians, Giants, Elves.. these are like traps in esoterica. Distractions, hoaxes. And they can drive people literally crazy. So the wisdom is actually between the words.

I think there's a lot of stuff that should be avoided.

reply to post by pepsi78


And so the line is drawn, between the human being as an "it", on the one hand, and the human being as an eternal spirit of God, on the other.

We must realize, that on the other side of who we are concerned we are not, is who and what we REALLY are, and then the tears are wiped away from the sufferers eyes with a smile.

the more that suffering carves into our being the more joy we can contain, and all happiness for man, or woman must arise exclusively only in relation to some unhappiness, already experienced.

But those who refuse, who for no reason of any kind reject themselves, let yourself be found again, but there's no need for anyone to off themselves, that's just absurd. There is no escape.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I would say "IT" is spot on as in no sex, IT comes as a human then the sex male or female. Want to be a light warior or an indigo child all wraped in water or you can be an "IT" You want to be a protos? or an elect. What will it be, in the end it's what you are a human being, and somewhere along the lines there someone that states chose none or better put chose bolth. Our very notion of duality the tree of life is represented has all the qualities
a human being has. Chosing one side of things will just make you chose sides, the very definition of satan, satan is pro all the way my friend, red all the way, enligtment all the way giving up your left side for what ? for enligtment ? Who is this satan dressed in santa, why it is the people on tv and the religios dogmas offering one sided view of things. Enligtment is just a perception to the extreme, while you do gain knowlege you give up on the other side. 666 is the red dragon, the lion king and I hear the queen is pissed off at this "cat" she is shouting, and she is comming, they broke every oath there is to break, they lied, not that I'm a religios nut, I'm not but that is what is to be a red cherubium. All we are is red and blue, light and dark, water and fire. It's one thing to be bolth and another thing is to be just the fire, you are no longer alive, you just see one side of view, that is enlightment 100%.

We were suppose to learn as human beings not as this:
Peace love and light

Do you like it's red robe ? look it is burned out. Something told it to do this.

Or maybe you like this one ?


It's what happens to you when you empty out.



Good quote.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born [Hei: womb] of water [Mem: sex] and of the Spirit [Shin: fire], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:5

Jesus was spot on.

reply to post by filosophia


very interesting, "form is emptiness, emptiness is form" - i'm thinking of the notion of Shunyata

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by LeoVirgo


'where desires come from'

Desire comes from our appetites, our body's necessity to consume food from outside ourselves in order to create energy. That desire stems from the principle of Nature, you can just say it's Nature. Nature's goal is survival, so shouldn't it be plausible to assume the evolution of Nature is headed towards immortality?

Desire comes from experiencing 'life as a self' that seems separate from what surrounds it. The body does have needs like eating...and this may be a start of where our desires come from....but when one says that after we die our 'desires' can be fulfilled...what does that mean? Are we still a 'self' after death? What desires would one have after death? If there is desire after death, isnt there then still ego, still a 'self'?

I think the next question after 'where do desires come from' is....'are we individuals eternally, infinitely'? Are we really 'selves' after we die? If we are not individuals after we die or if we need to transcend this concept of individuality....then is there really a fulfilling of desires of self after death?

reply to post by Tamahu


Yes I have been going through that Gnosis website for the past day listening and reading different subjects and there is so much interesting stuff! Just the teaching on the Daath taught me so much I did not know, especially about how to understand the Adam & Eve story. When you talk about the 'levels of mystery knowledge' is this in reference to the 9 yanas? I do agree one must work their way up to higher teachings such as anatta "no-self" and "no-ego", as I made this mistake myself and became very confused. Can you share more detailed info on these different levels?

Thanks you have helped me tremendously.