reply to post by sakokrap
Lol! In a slave state everyone is a criminal. If a collective wish to define moral values to the enfranchised and articulate punishments for
violations, that's called a "justice system".
What if a collective defines that "You cannot have liberty to do something which threatens others, and you also cannot have liberty to endanger
others by NOT doing something that prevents the threat they face, while being easily able to do it". Its no longer a justice system?
Both a & b require violent force enforcement. If the neighborhood says, "you know what, I'm not going to go to work so that you can steal from me
and give it to criminals
Well, if he chooses to being unemployed and live in extreme povetry (maybe get food stamps from the collective, thats all), as opposed to getting a
job and living more wealthy life (and giving some part of this wealth to help the needy and pay those food stamps) his call, I have no problem with
it.But if the difference between welfare and wages is set wide enough, overwhelming majority of people would not choose your option, as evidenced by
empirical observations around the world.
These are your prison guards, your secret police, your uniformed tax collectors and your intelligence network...
Lol. I need tax collectors and normal police which I would have to pay either way (unless you want Somalia). Thats all.
Lol! This coming from a fella who suggested killing every man, woman and child because of super firepower?! Lol! At least I'm willing to give them a
shot at making it.
I already said it was obviously only sarcasm to show what atrocities the opponents logic allows, why are you bringing this up again? Read
the following post
You're opening a huge can of worms with that statement. Are the products/services created by the prisoners for sale on the common market? If so, are
there price controls? Do slaves earn a wage/salary?
Yes, yes, yes (limited of course). Prisoners receiving benefits, or even getting their time shortened for public work (collecting garbage..) or
education are common all over the world, I dont know why are you equating it with Gulags. They can always choose not to work, but wont receive
benefits, thats not slavery, slavery is FORCING people to work, not MOTIVATING people to work.
Even in Pakistan and Egypt, the car thief doesn't have to suffer slavery. Personally, I'd rather lose a hand than spend time in your suggested
Wow. Your call, but I think it would be crazy, and if it was for real, I think you will quickly change your opinion and choose imprisonment for a year
or so in my "gulag" than loosing a limb permanently. Its very easy to be a hero on an internet forum.
Odd that you believe humans are not wild animals- especially after promoting wholesale genocide, resource wars, enslavement and parasitism.
I have never promoted genocide (that was debunked above) and resource wars (where??), and if you mean helping those who have no other option by
enslavement and parasitism, then yes, I support it, it actually sets us apart from wild animals.
You do understand that your use of the word "ensure" is violent in nature. Just like Egypt "ensuring" adulterers are brought to justice. Wouldn't
your "ensure" also be synonymous with "barbarism"?
If you get attacked, you can also ensure that the attacker stops the attack, to prevent you or other people dying or being harmed. Is the word
"ensure" no longer violent in nature? Isnt it synonymous with barbarism?
I answer it for you - it is still violent, but its not barbaric, because its defensive violent act. Just like ensuring that those who are easily able
to provide help for those who urgently need it do so is defensive violent act, since the alternative (doing nothing) is people dying or being
4. You support the slaughter of people considered "other" to you without regard to innocence/guilt
Again the abovementioned strawman.
Certainly, I can't read your sarcasm unless you're going to use the liberally
I didnt use
because I wanted to catch my opponent arguing against his own logic. Well, he had not swallowed it, but it worked on you perfectly,
even after I explained the intent in the following post.
Sounds a lot like what is happening in Egypt and Pakistan...
Wowlulz, I come up with basic welfare state for disabled and outlawing the liberty to not provide urgent help (hospital emergency, basic lifesaving
welfare) and you come up with Egypt and Pakistan? What about USA, Canada, the whole western Europe, scandinavian social democracies, even my country,
Hell, show me one state where it is NOT like that, and its not a third world country without running water.
Your world, like Egypt and Pakistan, would have seemingly drastic punishments and plenty of police to "ensure" the proper function and role of the
If you think western Europe and scandinavian states are such countries, grab some education.
Hey man, it's kind of still a free country, so I'm glad you're getting a chance to share your vision, but personally I would be forced to take up
arms against a regime that would either throw me and my family in a labor camp for just being alive...
either that, or I'd have to move far, far away and watch the smoke on the horizon.
Well, the only country I know which does not have the things I enumerated is maybe Somalia. I hope you are on your way there already, its gonna be