Afghanistan 'friendly fire ' may have killed soldier

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You do not consider it a massacre when the US drops a bomb on a house, killing 16 civilians and 2 insurgents?

Well, look at it this way: You have insurgents that are hiding with the civilian population. They are using women and children as human shields. Where's your outrage over that?

It is the people fighting the American army. If a regular civilian Afghan picked up a rifle, then they are an insurgent to us in the West. Considering NATO keeps killing civilians, it is no surprise that insurgency is on the rise, so obviously the excuse of "human shields" is just going to be a cover statement for bombing resistors against American domination.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I've seen so many cases of American atrocities in Iraq that it is beyond question now. I've also seen videos of American soldiers in Iraq winging puppies off of cliffs and strafing herds of sheep with 40mm grenades just for fun.

No, you have only seen one video of a US Marine throwing a wild puppy off a cliff, who was then punished rapidly. Most dogs in Iraq are rabid, wild, travel in packs, and are a legitimate threat to night operations. Strafing herds of sheep? Good lord, the nerve. If you consider these atrocities, you're quite naive.

And your assessment of "Soviet atrocities" is not entirely correct. Did the Soviets commit atrocities? You're damn right they did. However, the atrocities started to mount near the end of the conflict when the will to fight was all but lost. "The first casualties of war are justice and love", this leads to massacre. Near the end, Spetsnaz were copying mujahideen tactics and were able to assault remote villages; the heart of mujahideen country. They committed massacre as a show of force, because Russians understand that effective counter-terrorism is to commit terrorism against the terrorists.
And make no mistake, the mujahideen were equally as brutal. There are reports of captured Spetsnaz being skinned alive (because they would not talk). Mujahideen also like to make propaganda videos of their executions to strike fear into the hearts of Russian soldiers.

Once again, there is no comparison between Russian war-crimes and American mistakes/isolated cases. If you truly believe there is, your disdain and bitterness for the US has clouded your judgement.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
It is the people fighting the American army. If a regular civilian Afghan picked up a rifle, then they are an insurgent to us in the West. Considering NATO keeps killing civilians, it is no surprise that insurgency is on the rise, so obviously the excuse of "human shields" is just going to be a cover statement for bombing resistors against American domination.

I read reports from troops in the field of being engaged by Taliban that were surrounded by children. They know that if US troops kill a kid, the world will get up in arms over it, completely forgetting the fact that the Taliban was the one that put those kids in danger.

That's why civilians are getting killed. Don't try to kid yourself that it's something else.

reply to post by woogleuk

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by Mdv2

 

OK, in that case.........

# In the Tarnak Farm incident of April 18, 2002, four Canadian soldiers were killed and eight others injured when U.S. Air National Guard Major Harry Schmidt, dropped a laser-guided 500 lb (230 kg) bomb from his F-16 jet fighter on the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry regiment which was conducting a night firing exercise near Kandahar. Schmidt was charged with negligent manslaughter, aggravated assault, and dereliction of duty. He was found guilty of the latter charge, was fined nearly $5,700 in pay and was reprimanded. During testimony Schmidt blamed the incident on his use of "go pills" (authorized mild stimulants), combined with the 'fog of war'.[37] The Canadian dead received US medals for "bravery", but no apology.

# On 5 December 2006, an F/A-18C on a Close Air Support mission in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, mistakenly attacked a trench where British Royal Marines were dug-in during a 10-hour battle with Taliban fighters, killing one Royal Marine.[38]

# Pat Tillman, a former famous American football player, was shot by American fire in April 2004. The subsequent cover-up and untruths told regarding his death provoke a bigger outrage than the actual incident. An Army Special Operations Command investigation was conducted by Brigadier General Jones and the U.S. Department of Defense concluded that Pat Tillman's death was due to friendly fire aggravated by the intensity of the firefight. A more thorough investigation concluded that no hostile forces were involved in the firefight and that two allied groups fired on each other in confusion after a nearby explosive device was detonated.

# Operation Medusa (2006): 1 - Two U.S. A-10 Thunderbolts accidentally strafed NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham.

Of two helicopters called in to support operations by the British Grenadier Guards and Afghan National Army forces in Helmand, the British Westland WAH-64 Apache engaged enemy forces, while the accompanying American AH-64D Apache opened fire on the Grenadiers and Afghan troops.[44]

# In the Battle of Nasiriyah, an American force of AAV's and infantry were misidentified as an Iraqi armored column by two U.S. Air Force A-10s who carried out a few bombing and strafing runs on them. Six U.S. Marines were killed as a result.

# American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed.[48]

# An American Patriot missile downed a F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot Lieutenant Nathan Dennis White (U.S. Navy). This was the result of the missile design flaw in identifying hostile aircraft.[49]

# An American Patriot missile downed a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 "D" of No. 13 Squadron RAF killing the pilot and navigator.

# 190th Fighter Squadron/Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003. A pair of American A-10s from the 190th attacked four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing one and injuring five.

# An American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. Kurdish officials advised US helicopters hit the men who were guarding a branch of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) in Mosul. The US military said the attack was launched after soldiers identified armed men in a bunker near a building reportedly used for bomb-making, and that American troops called for the men to put down their weapons in Arabic and Kurdish before launching the strike.[50]

# American soldier Mario Lozano killed an Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and is suspected of wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire. This claim has been later denied by video proof that the car was respecting speed limits and proceeding with front lights turned on. The shooting commenced well before 50 meters, in contrast with what Lozano and other marines testified.[51]

# A Bulgarian patrol operating southeast of Diwaniya in southern Iraq received heavy fire from the direction of a U.S. Army communications facility 165 yd (151 m) away after firing warning shots to stop an Iraqi civilian car. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

and plenty more where they came from (The recent British hostage, the story from the opening post, etc etc) and don't tell me it's because the US forces are more engaged, thats a pretty weak excuse, no offense.

Yes, all sides make mistakes, the point is, the US make more, a lot more, and they may just be mistakes, but could they have been avoided with proper training and better communication?

edit on 6/12/10 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

You just copied this and paste it from Wikipedia. I noticed "6 marines killed" until i decided to edit some of them. In the Battle of Nasiriyah, only 1 US marine was killed and 17 was wounded as a result. I checked if "6 killed" then nothing came up. Even the A-10 Friendly Fire investigation concludes that 1 was killed and 17 were wounded as a result. And no i didn't get this from Wikipedia, i research all by myself. so the US has been respmsible for 3 US military deaths. Wikipedia doesn't always get things right. It's can be edited a lot.www.globalsecurity.org...

If you look at 2 different types of incidents. 5 British troops were killed by US military, 4 air-to-ground, 1 ground to air. 10 British troops were killed by British Troops, 1 air-to-ground(the British Forward Air controller fault), and 5 ground to ground. Since America putting a lot more than British forces, that is to why no US troops was killed by a British soldiers. How many British troops killed by US ground to ground? 0. So it's a big misconception that American ground forces are trigger happy cause we hardly shoot anyone a lot ground to ground when it comes to allies. The US has more since US provided 99% air-support for all coalitions troops. So chances are they are going to be more incidents with US-aircraft fighting forces.

If you watch Ross Kemp in Afghanistan on YouTube, many British soldiers actually admired our pilots. Without them then their lives would be a lot worser. I'm talking about different types of incidents here. If you think our pilots sucks, get your own air-support if you think you could do better. If you military invest more money it would not been needing us you had to rely on a lot. You can't take the fact that despite our air force saves your troops every day, they do make mistakes and tragedy ensues, such is war. I'll bet you my car that you're not, were not, and never will be in the military. British Soldiers understand what wars is, Civilians(i could say whiner like u) like u don't. Since you guys love to shoot each other in the field, let's stick to that. Except the Afghan soldiers they been shooting out guys a lot and we been shooting them back. Between 2009 and 2011 Afghan forces had killed 15 of our guys. It's no wonder why we stayed there to train them.

The US did not throw a grenade at the window. Our special forces did not throw grenades at her....one SEAL *may have thrown a grenade to the back of the building, where she had been dragged by a captor, and was then huddled on the ground...not *AT* her. Since she was a british citizen, maybe you should have sent the *SAS* instead. Take that up with Cameron who jointly approved the raid. The SBS/SAS has plenty of screws up too so don't act like SAS/SBS make mistakes. Look back into your backyard before you talk about ours. Remember the Stephen Farrell raid? www.sbs.com.au...

Look at the picture of Munadi body. Notice the blood stain directly in center of his forehead. An Afghan police chief told the Times: Munadi was shot in the chest as well as a single gunshot wound to the forehead. Farrell last reported Munadi walking TOWARDS the SBS. It does not stated who got killed but they rather not report it because it might make Britain look bad. But you cannot defeat the words of Stephen Farrell. He was actually there. An Afghan police actually stated in private that he was killed by an SBS officer. What is really sick is the British media rather not report it and still tried to portray as a success. Despite that Stephen Farrell was save,d that does not excuse the actions of the SBS killing munadi, and afghan women and child. The news always doesn't include and update everything my friend. Beside this isn't the 1st time the SBS screwed up. During the joint op between the Italian Special Forces and SBS/SAS t rescue of Lorenzo D' Auria and 2 Italian hostage, the SBS managed to shoot 3 of them, killing Lorenzo and severly wounding the other. Troops from the Special Boat Service, the navy's equivalent of the SAS, were called in by Nato after intelligence reports that the Italians were about to be moved from a building east of the town of Farah. The SBS troopers were taken to the area by helicopter, and as Italian commandos stormed the building, the SBS attacked the two trucks in which the captors were about to drive the Italians away. Sounds like to me that SBS was shooting the italians all along.

www.guardian.co.uk...

So just drop the "hey-hey-the-barbaric-trigge­r-happy-Yanks-always-shoot-up-­friendly-forces-but-we-civiliz­ed-Brits-never-ever-do" bullcrap? You've been proven wrong. Admit it, apologize for being a bigoted jerk and for pushing your ugly stereotype on Americans, then move on.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


1) Yes I copied and pasted from Wikipedia, that is my source, your point?

2) I have NO biggoted opinion of the American people, I have quite a number of American friends, I have a problem with its government and a few members of its armed forces, which I have stated time and time again.

3) I Will not apologise for my opinions.

4) name calling is not tolerated on ATS, I suggest before you continue you read the T&C thoroughly.

Regards.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by Paulioetc15

 

1) Yes I copied and pasted from Wikipedia, that is my source, your point?

2) I have NO biggoted opinion of the American people, I have quite a number of American friends, I have a problem with its government and a few members of its armed forces, which I have stated time and time again.

3) I Will not apologise for my opinions.

4) name calling is not tolerated on ATS, I suggest before you continue you read the T&C thoroughly.

Regards.

edit on 27/1/11 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

Ok Yes i have many British friends as well but i'm very new to this forum. Our pilots are doing what's up there for all coalitions allies. They just don't shoot up for fun you know. Most of the time they receiving orders from the British FAC(i know because my brother is a US in Afghanistan pilot taking orders from the British FAC). Sometimes i get defensive a lot against bigots so i usually respond to them back with an aggressive response. Right now that Kiwi soldier got killed is still being investigated. It's going to take a while. If you know what i mean. Sorry for the name-calling but sometimes it gets too far.

Regards from America