A Declaration to preserve our rights

reply to post by thewholepicture


I can understand that you are unhappy with the way that this government is run, you aren't alone. But you have to be specific at what you are unhappy with, and you have to understand what you can really do about it. You aren't powerless in this country.

The TEA Party movement showed what real political power the people have. The unfortunate part is, that the TEA Party movement was hijacked by the Republican party and FOX News. What this country really needs is an Independent movement of people in the middle who don't have extremist views.

This country doesn't need a revolution, it needs an enema.

The things you are complaining about like the Gulf of Tonkin is old news, while it may have been wrong, not much you are going to do about it now.

The Patriot Act, well, much of the teeth of that act has been removed. Say the government spies on your phone calls, well, not only is that information not legally admissible in court, but you can also sue the phone company that provides your service for a lot of money.

The Fed, well, that's not unconstitutional. Is the Fed shady? No doubt. Do they do things that compromise our countries interests? That's debatable, but it's not unconstitutional for the fed to be in existence.

I am not saying don't be angry, I am just saying be angry about the right things. You don't need to declare your independence from this nation in order to enact real change, it has taken a long time for us to get to this point in our countries existence, and it is going to take a long time to get back to where we should be. Don't expect overnight change, you will just be disappointed.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by thewholepicture

 

I can understand that you are unhappy with the way that this government is run, you aren't alone. But you have to be specific at what you are unhappy with, and you have to understand what you can really do about it. You aren't powerless in this country.

The TEA Party movement showed what real political power the people have. The unfortunate part is, that the TEA Party movement was hijacked by the Republican party and FOX News. What this country really needs is an Independent movement of people in the middle who don't have extremist views.

This country doesn't need a revolution, it needs an enema.

The things you are complaining about like the Gulf of Tonkin is old news, while it may have been wrong, not much you are going to do about it now.

The Patriot Act, well, much of the teeth of that act has been removed. Say the government spies on your phone calls, well, not only is that information not legally admissible in court, but you can also sue the phone company that provides your service for a lot of money.

The Fed, well, that's not unconstitutional. Is the Fed shady? No doubt. Do they do things that compromise our countries interests? That's debatable, but it's not unconstitutional for the fed to be in existence.

I am not saying don't be angry, I am just saying be angry about the right things. You don't need to declare your independence from this nation in order to enact real change, it has taken a long time for us to get to this point in our countries existence, and it is going to take a long time to get back to where we should be. Don't expect overnight change, you will just be disappointed.

Revolution: a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving

Declaration: a statement that is emphatic and explicit (spoken or written)

Where do either of these definitions say anything about violence?

reply to post by whatukno


But see the rights mentioned on paper in the First Amendment only serve as a protection. This being the People protected from a Government. Regardless if a person wishes for a change in the present direction they believe is taking place, they still retain that Right of redress because it existing before it was penned into the First Amendment.

The only thing they lose is the guarantee that Congress shall make no law against it.

But again....wukky....I am looking for the OPs call to take up arms and kill his brethren and countrymen in armed revolution. This is the basis of your initial attack upon his musings regarding an updated list of violations.

Still even, with your narrowed and refocused aim at people who do not trust their Government to be placed upon watch lists is scary.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

The problem I see is, people who write these "declaration of independence" or use the original Declaration of Independence, are basically saying they are revolting against the government and have the intention of taking up arms against the government.

Thats why I think these people should be watched.

Those who would willingly and purposely kill their fellow countrymen should be locked up, those who would threaten to kill their fellow countrymen should be watched.

We who would like to make the government be accountable to The Declaration of Independance would be taking arms against the government. This statement is beyond unbelieveable as in the DoI it clearly states we the people have the right to overturn a corrupted and or tyronous government. Exactly how would I be taking arms to my government asking them to uphold the DoI? In a peaceful manner? You are a person who would take a peaceful americans true intents and manipulate the. intensions into a treasonous manner, " I the american citizen call you a "trader of the american patriot common citizen"
peace to your soul you need it.

Having a dissenting opinion of the government is fine. If your only solution is the violent overthrow of that government, I cannot agree with that opinion, nor can I condone that opinion.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by thewholepicture

 

do you believe we are a completely free society?

No, we aren't in a completely free society, that is Anarchy and we live in a Republic.

do you believe putting me on a watch list because I practiced freedom of speech is constitutional under our bill of rights?

Typically the people that haul out these "Declarations of Independence" are people who want to violently overthrow the government in order to install a more fascist government based on what they think freedom is, usually after talking to these people for a while, you get the general idea that they don't want freedom at all but some sort of fascism where only a select few people have rights and the majority are subjected to a harsh reality where freedom is a long forgotten notion.

If you ask them questions like, what amendments would you repeal, they often will come back with the removal of the 13th and 14th Amendment, see to these people, they want slavery legal again, which obviously doesn't mean freedom for some folks now does it?

Some people also believe that the Declaration of Independence is their personal licence to kill their fellow Americans, they forget while many in Washington are indeed corrupt, they still are Americans and just because they are corrupt doesn't give anyone the right to kill them.

I t

I believe, no wait, I know you are ONE OF THEM...and you and know on my "watch list" I believe you are one of those people who would report me for my awareness of THE MAN and have me plucked out, TRADER

Originally posted by lbndhr
I t

I believe, no wait, I know you are ONE OF THEM...and you and know on my "watch list" I believe you are one of those people who would report me for my awareness of THE MAN and have me plucked out, TRADER

Let me guess... You are a product of the Public Education System, and English Class bored you... And it also looks like you decided you had enough of that "book lurnin" at about the 9th grade level... Grammar & Spelling FAIL...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by lbndhr
I t

I believe, no wait, I know you are ONE OF THEM...and you and know on my "watch list" I believe you are one of those people who would report me for my awareness of THE MAN and have me plucked out, TRADER

Let me guess... You are a product of the Public Education System, and English Class bored you... And it also looks like you decided you had enough of that "book lurnin" at about the 9th grade level... Grammar & Spelling FAIL...

WOW, how ignorant and stuck up you are!

what he lacks in spelling, he makes up in patriotism.

What education you may have, is all lost with your ideas of dictatorship.

reply to post by thewholepicture


Im laughing to the level my stomache hurts. I have a problem of being so angry at ignorance I fail to spell check for this yes I agree I APPEAR to be uneducated. My education level bears no level( 4 year community college then i became wife and mother) to my knowledge of understanding the is a trader and who is not. When a fellow american is merely attempting to bring together a feeling he is not alone in this out of control society starts a thread to express his deep felt distress to such ridicule back would be seen as unamerican. trader to your neighbor. I am the woman who speaks in small words. You all are so busy confusing each other trying to be the one whom is more right then the other, you belittle each other. Fact is, you who I am replying to you are more ignorant then my husband and my husband I refer to as "Forest Gump. Education IS only book smart..experince in life is where wisdom is gained. ....step away from your computer get out of your house, travel east to west, then north to south. then tell me something you know. I am infact a older`ish woman and I came to realize spelling a word exact is not exactly the matter becauz tha mening iz tha sam when yu red it rit? I the older woman also came to realize as time pass`s, your ideals and opinions that which you hold deep in your soul is yours not mine....

Peace to you my friend, realx and enjoy your day

reply to post by lbndhr


It's traitor, not trader... One is a person who sells out his country, the other is someone who trades goods... I won't even go into the multitude of other spelling and grammatical errors in that wordy and difficult to read post. Going to Community College for four years in nothing to brag about, since it's a two year institution. The fact remains that both the initial post I replied to and the one linked to here make you sound like an ignorant idiot, and thus tend to encourage the reader to sway his/her opinion in the direction of the opposition for fear of being thought of in the same light. To the poster to whom you replied to in the above linked post, recognizing horrendous spelling and grammar does not make one ignorant, it makes one educated and literate. That would be the exact opposite of ignorant. Also, if not being accepting of poor spelling and grammar makes one arrogant, or as you put it stuck up, then we need alot more arrogant people in this country before we slide into a third world status of ignorant and illiterate fools... Having high standards in the area of education should be a goal, not a subject of ridicule...

And by the way, I have not given my opinion on the subject matter of the thread yet, so please refrain from 'deciding in your head' which party I subscribe to...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Not siding with either I believe the angry poster was detailing the mispelling of the post in regards to, the manner of spelling correctly or incorrectly is irrelivant to the message as the message would be the message regardless of the education or the grammer

reply to post by lbndhr


Here's the problem I have here.

There is a major difference between being a Trader, and being a Traitor.

A Trader, basically deals in free market enterprise, so, that is no insult to an American.

Now, if you are accusing me of being a Traitor, that's a serious charge, by Constitutional definition, as listed in Article III Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

www.archives.gov...

I certainly am not.

The fact remains, that the United States is not a free country, it's a Republic, not an Anarchy, we do have laws, and those laws unless overturned by the Supreme Court, or repealed by Congress are considered Constitutional and should be followed.

The real Traitors, are those that would overthrow this Constitutionally elected government by violent means and install a fascist regime lacking in any liberty for select groups of people. These groups are quite active in the United States, claiming that this government needs to be overthrown, and only people whom THEY choose should be installed.

Maybe you have noticed these groups in action, they are the ones pushing for laws against immigrants, they are the ones that protest mosques being built, they are the ones that are fighting against gay rights, they are the ones that truly hate liberty and freedom.

The problem with these people is the ultra nationalism they represent, the "US first" attitude, where they believe that this is a white Christian nation, and that our lawmakers must pass laws that are decidedly pro white and pro Christian.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by lbndhr

 

Here's the problem I have here.

There is a major difference between being a Trader, and being a Traitor.

A Trader, basically deals in free market enterprise, so, that is no insult to an American.

Now, if you are accusing me of being a Traitor, that's a serious charge, by Constitutional definition, as listed in Article III Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

www.archives.gov...

I certainly am not.

The fact remains, that the United States is not a free country, it's a Republic, not an Anarchy, we do have laws, and those laws unless overturned by the Supreme Court, or repealed by Congress are considered Constitutional and should be followed.

The real Traitors, are those that would overthrow this Constitutionally elected government by violent means and install a fascist regime lacking in any liberty for select groups of people. These groups are quite active in the United States, claiming that this government needs to be overthrown, and only people whom THEY choose should be installed.

Maybe you have noticed these groups in action, they are the ones pushing for laws against immigrants, they are the ones that protest mosques being built, they are the ones that are fighting against gay rights, they are the ones that truly hate liberty and freedom.

The problem with these people is the ultra nationalism they represent, the "US first" attitude, where they believe that this is a white Christian nation, and that our lawmakers must pass laws that are decidedly pro white and pro Christian.

The post in this thread have brought a fantasy consideration of what a overturn of the government would take in my eyes. Without arms without wars, an empty house. I would in no consideration bring my man to the stage, this mirrors exactly the situation we face today. pre-made pre-picked for the seat(s) What then have I achieved that which has already been dealt our country. I would like to believe our people can find good men and woman, as I considered the effect of past decisions I came one one conclusion. America is damned. Leave it alone