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To ATS: An Essay on Revolution and Renaissance (Please Read)

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posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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In today’s society conspiratorial corruption in the affairs of world governments and business is an inevitable fact of life that we cannot begin to fathom the exponential extent to which it exists. In a large amount of democratic or republic societies the leaders that are in the spectrum of the public eye are not the actual people calling the shots. Rather they are mere puppets dancing at the end of their silvery strings controlled by their masters. It seems. From the eyes of civilians/non-political/economical elites, that government and politics has become nothing more than a mere masquerade while we all pour candy into the buckets of mega-corporations masked behind their costumes of advertising, public appeal, and PR campaigns. We claim that our society plants its foundation in moral, ethical, and theological concepts. While this is true, in theory, the actual reality of the situation is that we talk the talk but we don’t walk the walk. For instance, Capitalism is based upon the principals of freedom and prosperity for the individual and equality for all. But in practice, it is more like a game of musical chairs; everyone joins in the rat race and when the music stops they all rush, pushing everyone else aside to get their piece of the pie or to get to the top, and someone gets cast aide every time.

Granted not everyone engages in this behavior but a large amount of people still do. With this mind state it is no wonder that society has evolved into the current state that it is in today. The upheaval of this burden on our shoulders can not be relied on by that of our governments. It is up to the people to take it upon ourselves to initiate this necessary and revolutionary change. However, with an apathetic mindset it will never be achieved. In order for the new era of enlightenment and global harmony to manifest, humanity needs a cultural renaissance to occur at the same moment of a grass-roots political movement/revolution. This will entail the collaborated work of sociologists, politicians, business leaders, journalists, philosophers, religious figures, and all other walks of life. I don’t foresee this happening anytime soon with the generation that currently possesses, maintains, and exercises political and economical power, it will take place in the next generation of people to inherit power, the people in college at the moment and their younger counterparts.

That being said, this generation, at least in the United States, is mostly the epitome of Capitalistic mindsets and corporate culture. In classes, I notice that a large amount of my peers are in school simply to earn a degree that will allow them to achieve a career. Instead of being there just to learn and expand their horizons they are there to eventually fall in line with the rest of the status quo. This mindset is reflected in their everyday social life in the simplistic taste of music, theatre, and other forms of art. They don’t care about situations in the world and only tend to focus on materialism, selfishness, and individualism. This type of apathetic behavior is what led to the current situation that the world is currently in today. This is why this generation needs a cultural renaissance in order to achieve the necessary political change that will create a better form of society.

Humanity has come so far and accomplished the unfathomably thinkable. We can peer into the cosmos and photograph billions of year old light photons and decipher what elements their celestial bodies are composed of. We pave roads, build homes, and forge monetary systems that dictate our lies, but look at what we have become. As I sit here on the bus writing this, I notice that that over half of the people are on their cell phones with their eyes glued to their screens, instead of socially interacting with others around them. Technology is amazing; humanity’s chance to play God, if you will, but look what it has done to culture. Look what it did to music. In 1722, Johann Sebastian Bach composed a work entitled The Well Tempered Clavier, which entails of a solo-piano composition that explores and develops very beautiful, complicated, and intricate musical themes in all 24 major and minor keys. Today, computers write music for us, in usually typical 4/4 time signatures with the same rhythmatic patters and chord progression looped over and over while someone recites self-glorifying words while calling them lyrics and themselves artists. This is reflected in the mindset of the new generations; we culturally follow what corporate business leaks down to us. This is why the vast majority of cities in the United States typically compromise of the same business, town layouts, laws, news outlets, etc. American culture has become corporatized; we “buy” into the society that we are “marketed” into, there is no real culture.

When you have a culture like this, it is inevitable that the affairs of political/economical elites are corrupt. In a way, 1984 is upon us, just personified differently if you interpret it metaphorically. If we don’t do something about this, then I doubt that the future will be any better than the present. It is very simple logic; an apathetic un-politically awakened masses in a democratic society is easier to control and manipulate.

If we don’t take it upon ourselves to make the best effort of change in society then a similar style of governance will be the inevitable future. If you recant to history in the 1700s you will recall the American Revolution. The large majority of citizens in the crown colonies considered themselves British and loyal to the crown while only a small amount of people wanted a revolution and independence. The sovereignty of the land that would soon become the United States was eventually inevitable no matter which form it came in or when it would have occurred. However, at that time there was a small number of like-minded individuals who were intelligent enough to recognize the issues in their era and create solutions in which led the founding of the United States of America, the most powerful super power in history.

This new country was founded on sound ideals, intelligent philosophy, and a strong foundation. However, the Founding Fathers and Framers of the Constitution would be rolling over in their graves if they could see what their hard work had turned into. We’ve allowed money to control political decisions rather than the vote of the citizens. The U.S. Congress gave away its Constitutional Right to coin, and regulates monetary currency to a private central bank in 1913 with the FEDERAL RESERVE ACT (which is no more federal than FEDERAL EXPRESS). It placed a giant “VOID” stamp on the Bill of Rights with the USA PATRIOT ACT in 2001 in the name of “FREEDOM.” The Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional to place caps on corporate contributions to political campaigns, citing it a violation of Freedom of Speech.

So the federal government gave away our economy to bankers, voided natural born rights, and took away the voice of the people while giving freedom of speech to the big businesses that run the show in the first place; and all in the name of Freedom, Liberty, and Justice for All. In the words of Benjamin Franklin, “Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!”

Thus, in this day in age it is up to us to follow in the footsteps of our ancestors. Just as the American Revolution was started by a small group of people, their counterparts in the 21st Century must do the same. In order to change something we must first find the root of the problem, then we must inform our peers so that we may all come together on common ground with the malevolent cast aside and fix the “issue.” Just as the sovereignty of the former crown colonies was an inevitability, the grass-roots revolution and cultural renaissance are inevitable as well. We must do our best so that this new era will come about as fast as possible so that a more free and harmonious society can manifest naturally.

The details of this necessary “shift” is so vast that more time, research, and mediums are necessary in order to address every aspect. I have not lived in multiple countries so my perspective is generally from that of the United States so those are the issues I address. Since society is so vast in every aspect, the different details are ground for futures political debate after we can achieve an efficient, reliable, and trustworthy form of government. Until we can untangle ourselves of this web in which binds us, we must save the debate for later time and address the big picture. In order to achieve a government that is favorable towards its constituents we must have a form of elections in which every voter is informed without biased twists, filtered information and manipulated perspectives. Representatives should be of everyday people instead of career politicians, and everybody’s voice should be heard, with facts being presented without biased views and belief. People can be so intelligent but their ideological thinking tends to overweigh logical deductive thinking. Rather your perspective should be made from knowledge acquired through personal experiences.

As I mentioned earlier, the people in charge according to the public eye are just mere puppets. Yes, this does mean that I am referring to a “shadow government,” or the Puppet Master behind the “Curtain” pulling the strings, if you will. That being said, I do not think that there is some dual Illuminati-Masonic Conspiracy plot to implement a New World Order. I do know that deep conspiracies are there but they are not all tied into one vast conspiracy. If anything this “NWO” is already among us, just personified differently than what “Mainstream Conspiracy Theories” suggest. We don’t know, nor will we likely ever know who exactly is behind the scenes orchestrating the global chess board, but we do know who their puppets are and the mediums in which they operate. In order to take out TPTB we must take away the power consolidated in their puppets, and yes there are tactics and tools that are disposable to the people so that we can accomplish this task.

Voting is the fundamental principal behind the political philosophy of Democracy. This is the driving force of a functioning republic. The requirements for voting are in place so that intelligent people with the perspective of a citizen can elect a functioning system of government. In order for the masses to make informed decisions they must have a reliable medium of information. Unfortunately the organizations that provide this necessary information are in business for profit and allow companies to fund them on grounds that they only report information that will lead the masses into thinking in ways that re beneficial towards their agenda.

Business indirectly elects representatives through the mediums in which information is bestowed to the public. Nearly anyone can run for public office but if you don’t have a big bank account you’re going to need the support of someone who does. These people are willing to support political candidates that voice an opinion and will implement policies that will allow their business ventures to be more profitable. This is where big business begins to manipulate governmental policies and functions. They donate to political candidates that they will believe will be friendly towards their industries. This money is used for political advertising and PR campaigns that “catapult the propaganda” through various mediums in order to sway public opinions. However, these same companies that fund political campaigns also fund the mediums that information is presented to the public by paying for advertising. It is also important to note that these companies won’t contribute to outlets that will report criticism towards them thus factual information that exposes corruption is omitted/censored. The buck doesn’t stop there. When candidates are sworn in to public office they then obtain information that shifts public policy from lobbyists who represent the same firms that put them into office. Federal agencies are filled with revolving doors between corporations that are tangent to their counterparts in the “Free Market”.

When you can control the information flow that affects the decisions of voters then you control what type of government will be in place. It seems that this “Corporatocracy” has hijacked Democracy by turning votes into mere consent to be governed forms. In this near economic depression normal people don’t have the funds or time to devote to helping political movements that are beneficial to everyone because they’re too busy worry how they are going to pay their bills and put food on the table. So in a time of need for drastic social and systematic reforms and recession it is easier for big business to control public opinion since there aren’t a lot of individuals who can go out to make an impact. This is the opposite of what needs to be happening to impact the world for the better good.

With the Supreme Court uplifting caps on corporate campaigns contributions and economic situations in which people don’t have the means to voice their own opinion on large scale, the propaganda that convinces us that our institutions are operating for the better good of society will constantly be more widely accepted. Given these factors, how can the citizens of the United States expect to have a reliable system of electing representatives? It is obliviously apparent that this apparatus will inevitably be changed, but it is up to us to take it upon ourselves to full devote ourselves to doing so. We can’t rely on the current forms of governments to do this for us, this is common sense.

When I say Revolution, I’m not talking about violent blood shed. I’m talking about revolutionary change accompanied by a cultural renaissance that will initiate a better form of society in which the world will be the way it was meant to be; free, harmonious and equal. Let’s ignore any mainstream propaganda and boycott the two powerful political parties and the mega-corporations that operate the machine. A country where economies are localized and towns are independently self sustaining so that if one economy crashed the rest of the dominoes won’t fall along with them. When people realize what the “conspirators” are doing they tend to think that it is simply for profit when the reality is that it has been about control, and it always has.



For thousands of years society took the form of Feudal or Caste Systems in which there were rulers and their serfs and no social integration of the two. The rulers did their best to insure that their “serfs” couldn’t read or write because if they could then they would realize that the way society is set up is immoral. The rulers wanted to control what information the masses knew so that the masses couldn’t formulate the notions that they were being repressed and enslaved. But around the era of the Renaissance these systems were dropped. This was due to widespread educational reform thus politically awakened masses.

The next form of society to take place is the class society in which we operate today. Instead of having the nobility over the serfs we have the upper class/business owners, and the middle class/workers. The prime example of a transitional phase between the two systems is the United States in the pre-Civil War Era in which there was a class society and slaves. Now the structure has transformed into composing of an Elite, a Middle Class (that has a slight upper middle class) and a highly impoverished lower class (which is downplayed). You start at the bottom despising the people at the top out of envy with motivations to be in their place. You work hard throughout your life to get to the top and when you’re there you disregarded the people you left behind at the bottom and you knocked someone else off of the top. Then you gain anxiety of losing what you have and you become greedy and the exact thing that you despised in the beginning.

With slavery caste aside the Elite needed another way of maintaining this status quo. In this era, since the idle and lower classes are literate and can teach themselves the Elite class must control the source of knowledge and information through mediums that filter facts into suggestive thinking. This explains the situation of today’s society from a broader perspective of how power is distributed and exerted throughout the populous. Instead of having an illiterate society that you manipulate you have a society that is convinced they are free while they are indirectly controlled. In the words of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, “none are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”

This selfish behavior and way of life is flawed and will become nothing more than a mere blimp in history. We don’t know exactly what the next form of society will be but we are living in the beginning climbing points towards the climax of the shift. People in charge know this and do now want to lose their power so they use disinformation to mislead movements, look at the TEA Party. We must change over our mind states and perspectives to create a new equal, unobjective world for all where elitism and corruption are obsolete.

Just as our ancestors realized the problems that faced them in the 1700s and did something about it we must do the same. Just as the era of Bach was very artistic we must change our Culture to a richer and vibrant one that will reflect into a government that is only there to serve its constituents and not themselves. From the Caste System in which none of the masses are literate to a Class System in which people are literate but information is still distorted we need a society where no information is distorted so that a true FREE society will exist in which humans are harmonious with the Earth and each other. It is up to us to spread this knowledge so that this New Era will manifest even faster.

Some Closing Points:
1. The Only Things That Stop the Progression of Humanity Are Abstract Concepts.

2. There Are Three Things That Are Required in Order to Help Others: 1. Skills 2. Resources and 3. Motivation; Sometimes It Just Takes Someone With All Three to Connect the Dots and Make A Difference.

3. Just as in a Storm, Thunder and Darkening Clouds Precedes Release, so In The Affairs of Men a Chaotic Time Precedes a Period of Order. (I Ching)

4. Without Humaneness, Nothing Lasting Can Be Accomplished in the Sphere of Authority. Power that Influences Through Fear Works Only For the Moment and Necessarily Arouses Resistance as a Counter-Effect. (I Ching)
edit on 5-12-2010 by elfulanozutan0 because: to change the title




posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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Comments, inputs, opinions, and insights are greatly appreciated!



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Well-written and very inspired! I think you covered the scope very realistically, and helped pave a road to a benevolent society with this post. S & F from me.

Money is a facilitator of trade. You don''t control me, I don't control you. God-given rights and good constitutional policies. Beyond that it gets all messed up!



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Very good,well written and thoughtful post. Keep your nose clean and run for office soon please. It is from young people like you that I can begin to see a glimmer of hope for America.

I personally feel the biggest weopon of all time that tptb have is the debt as money scheme. Take that away and we may one day be free again. Untill the fed is dead mankind will not be free.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by nickoli
 


Thank you for your insight. I'm studying Political Science and Philosophy now. I plan on writing some series of essays throughout my college career and run a local office when I have the resources to do so then work my way up through gov't. I'll always write articles with my commentary. I hope with anything I write that others will connect to my message and help me develop concepts so that a more fluid argument is presented so that the truth can spread like wildfire.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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I found your post insightful, easy to read, informative, well constructed, and a good 'manual' to what we should be doing, rather than what we actually are.

Excellent post!
... good luck with your studies



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Bump...

To see if more people will read it.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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Very nice, S+F for you! As one of the above posters has stated, please run for office .
It`s heartening to see some intelligence in our youth these days



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Great raed, Star and flag!



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Your post intrigues me. I've been thinking along the same lines, but I believe we need to come to some clear goals. A grass roots movement is a very powerful vehicle for change but as of now all we have is disconnected outrage. To really challenge the ruling class and it's control of our futures, we need to have solutions or plans on how to fix the problems of our society. This requires us to be innovative, discovering the needs of the people and what needs to change is no easy thing. But you have helped us all take a step in the right direction.

I believe in order for us to continue in the same mindset as the OP we should all take a few minutes and think about at least one broken system and how to fix it. Post your idea, perhaps we may be able to get the ball rolling on a real political platform. S&f from me for the well written and thought out material, you should do well in life but university kills as many minds as it opens.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by the cynic jester
 


Thank You. The point of this thread was to create a starting point in which like-minded individuals can start to develop solutions on a common ground. I implore everyone who reads this thread to take the cynic jester's suggestion and to think of a broken system that we can come up with solutions to fix. I would love it if we could use this thread to post ideas and concepts.

And as you said University Kills as many Minds as it Opens, that is very true. Corporations own the publishing companies that produce the Textbooks of College. (read between the lines to see they are omitting a lot of stuff). For example, IBM owns a history publishing company (I can't think of the name, a college professor told me this) that doesn't mention the fact that IBM sold technology to Hitler. In fact a lot of American Businesses did business with Hitler, even Prescott Bush, George W. Bush's Grandfather, was in on it as well. I'm from Texas and I now live in California so I've seen the ways that a Neocon state interprets information compared to a Liberal State interprets it, that's why I say do away with objectiveness. Only Fools Deal In Absolutes.

One system I think that needs to be fixed is the Food System and how the economy is structured. The economy is intertwined with the rest of the world that if some abstract computer algorithmic stock market crashes then everyone goes into shambles. I would rather see a world where cities sustain themselves with energy, water, and food so that if one area falls then another won't go down with it. The Elite tend to take it out on the masses when their "errors" become transparent. Monsanto tends to think that the world needs a corporately genetically modified food chain, but you can grow food almost anywhere despite what people say otherwise. I grow my own food as much as I can and I'm currently saving for Solar Panels for my house. These are just a few examples of some things people can do to creating a Grass-Roots Economy.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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I think what you suggest has already started it started about 20 years ago with a small number of patriots scattered around the country and with the advent of the Internet the idea fomented and distilled over the years slowly spreading and then broke out into the population with the Ron Paul campaign of 2008 when millions of people discovered they were not alone in their ideas.

Now we have various movements attracting people at their level of understanding and teaching new ideas and opening people up to new horizons. The tea party is one of these. I know it has been infiltrated but still many of these people who are attracted to it will go on to look deeper into the rabbit hole. People are waking to how the left right paradigm has been exploited to keep people divided etc etc. Websites like this are much more common now when ten years ago they were almost unheard of. The seeds of the renaissance have been planted and are now sprouting but we do have a long ways to go.

I don't know how long it will take but the police state we see around us is also a sign of the new renaissance growing as the old system of power and control seeks to consolidate its power and save itself from destruction. We have some rough times coming as we go through this transition but I think we will make it and a new freer society will emerge in the next 10 to 30 years, it can't happen fast enough IMO but at least it is happening. It is always darkest before the dawn and we are heading into the night. But what always comes after every night? Another new day!

Ok now we need to get something out of the way here; while I like and agree with your sentiment you still wrongly define free market capitalism. We must define things accurately and this is one of my pet peeves.


For instance, Capitalism is based upon the principals of freedom and prosperity for the individual and equality for all. But in practice, it is more like a game of musical chairs; everyone joins in the rat race and when the music stops they all rush, pushing everyone else aside to get their piece of the pie or to get to the top, and someone gets cast aide every time.


What you describe as "in practice" is not free market capitalism. It is corporatism/fascism and government intervention sold as capitalism through media and it gets repeated ad nausea here and elsewhere. So it is wrong to say this is capitalism in practice in any form.

Politically connected corporations that get government protection to protect markets and are allowed free reign to do what they please with little or no competition while would be competition is stifled or eliminated and or bogged down in regulation is not a free market. Then everyone claims we need more government regulation to protect us from these politically connected corporations and so called evil capitalism... Sigh!

Folks it is the government regulation that allowed the politically connected Corporations to do what they want in the first place while honest companies get stifled or cut out of the market completely. Still We will hear a cacophony of voices claiming we need government oversight when government oversight is the very problem and means of protecting these big over bearing corporations. Hello Bail outs anyone? Bueller, Bueller?


"Voting is the fundamental principal behind the political philosophy of Democracy. This is the driving force of a functioning republic. The requirements for voting are in place so that intelligent people with the perspective of a citizen can elect a functioning system of government. In order for the masses to make informed decisions they must have a reliable medium of information. Unfortunately the organizations that provide this necessary information are in business for profit and allow companies to fund them on grounds that they only report information that will lead the masses into thinking in ways that re beneficial towards their agenda. "


Here is another area where you and I have a problem. Democracy is not mentioned on the Constitution for a reason. The founders abhorred it! Democracy is not the fundamental driving force behind a free republic it is the anti thesis to it. Democracy and the pernicious idea that we are one is what has led to the idea that all things are open to a vote. That every aspect of our lives can be regulated by the 51% over the other 49%, that is mob rule not a free republic. The whole point of the free republic is to limit government to upholding and protecting rights period. For instance Congress has not constitutional authority to pass a bill telling us we have to buy health care. In fact it has no constitutional authority to tell us anything, it only has authority to operate the federal government in protection of rights and free trade period so it operates completely outside of its scope of delegated authority and that is because of the lie that we are a democracy in any way shape or form.

Here is a couple threads on it with more information:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The bill of rights was a further warning that congress has no authority over natural rights, not a granting of them. We have morphed into a socialist democracy in place of a free republic where everyone believes congress has the right to vote on every aspect of our lives when they have no right to vote on any aspect of it. The Constitution does not apply to the people of the United State it only applies to the federal government, it is the law they are to live by and obey and they bill of rights is telling them they are to leave us and our natural rights alone!


"Business indirectly elects representatives through the mediums in which information is bestowed to the public. Nearly anyone can run for public office but if you don’t have a big bank account you’re going to need the support of someone who does."


Welcome to the socialist democracy which has supplanted the free republic. Just trying to get back control over the mediums of information to the people will not fix this problem the problem is the democracy itself and the fact it is not what we started out with! It wrongly leads people to believe the 51% have the right to rule over the other 49%.


"With the Supreme Court uplifting caps on corporate campaigns contributions and economic situations in which people don’t have the means to voice their own opinion on large scale, the propaganda that convinces us that our institutions are operating for the better good of society will constantly be more widely accepted. Given these factors, how can the citizens of the United States expect to have a reliable system of electing representatives?


See the flaw in this now? You're trying to get votes heard and counted again when the answer is to cease allowing all these things to be voted on. I don't need your opinion on what health care I choose because it is none of your business nor congresses. If I want to see a witch doctor that is my business! We are always hearing we just need the right people in to vote the right way when the answer is for people to realize their representatives have no say in their lives and no right to vote on it. These reps are only supposed to be representing us in operating the federal government for our protection not operating every aspect of our lives. The Constitution is a restriction on the federal government not on the people!


Let’s ignore any mainstream propaganda and boycott the two powerful political parties and the mega-corporations that operate the machine. A country where economies are localized and towns are independently self sustaining so that if one economy crashed the rest of the dominoes won’t fall along with them.


Now you are really talking! Over all I like your post (but had to hit my pet peeves) and it is headed in the right direction. We have an example in History of a free sophisticated society that survived 1000 years without government as we see it, everything was done in the private sector and it warrants studying because I think we have a lot to learn from it. Here is some links:

www.libertarian.ie...

The most remarkable historical example of a society of libertarian law and courts, however, has been neglected by historians until very recently. And this was also a society where not only the courts and the law were largely libertarian, but where they operated within a purely state-less and libertarian society. This was ancient Ireland. Ireland which persisted in this libertarian path for roughly a thousand years until its brutal conquest by England in the seventeenth century. And, in contrast to many similarly functioning primitive tribes (such as the Ibos in West Africa, and many European tribes), pre-conquest Ireland was not in any sense a "primitive" society: it was a highly complex society that was, for centuries, the most advanced, most scholarly, and most civilized in all of Western Europe.

For a thousand years, then, ancient Celtic Ireland had no State or anything like it. As the leading authority on ancient Irish law has written:

'There was no legislature, no bailiffs, no police, no public enforcement of justice. There was no trace of State-administered justice.'

How then was justice secured? The basic political unit of ancient Ireland was the tuath. All 'freemen' who owned land, all professionals, and all craftsmen, were entitled to become members of a tuath. Each tuath's members formed an annual assembly which decided all common policies, declared war or peace on other tuatha, and elected or deposed their 'kings.' An important point is that, in contrast to primitive tribes, no one was stuck or bound to a given tuath, either because of kinship or of geographical location. Individual members were free to, and often did, secede from atuath and join a competing tuath. Often, two or more tuatha decided to merge into a single, more efficient unit. As Professor Peden states, 'the tuath is thus a body of persons voluntarily united for socially beneficial purposes and the sum total of the landed properties of its members constituted its territorial dimension.' In short, they did not have the modern State with its claim to sovereignty over a given (usually expanding) territorial area, divorced from the landed property rights of its subjects; on the contrary, tuatha were voluntary associations which only comprised the landed properties of its voluntary members. Historically, about 80 to 100 tuatha coexisted at any time throughout Ireland.

But what of the elected 'king'? Did he constitute a form of State ruler? Chiefly, the king functioned as a religious high priest, presiding over the worship rites of the tuath, which functioned as a voluntary religious, as well as a social and political, organization. As in pagan, pre-Christian, priesthoods, the kingly function was hereditary, this practice carrying over to Christian times. The king was elected by the tuath from within a royal kin-group (the derbfine), which carried the hereditary priestly function. Politically, however, the king had strictly limited functions: he was the military leader of the tuath, and he presided over the tuath assemblies. But he could only conduct war or peace negotiations as agent of the assemblies; and he was in no sense sovereign and had no rights of administering justice over tuath members. He could not legislate, and when he himself was party to a lawsuit, he had to submit his case to an independent judicial arbiter.

Again, how, then, was law developed and justice maintained? In the first place, the law itself was based on a body of ancient and immemorial custom, passed down as oral and then written tradition through a class of professional jurists called the brehons. The brehons were in no sense public, or governmental, officials; they were simply selected by parties to disputes on the basis of their reputations for wisdom, knowledge of the customary law, and the integrity of their decisions. As Professor Peden states:

The professional jurists were consulted by parties to disputes for advice as to what the law was in particular cases, and these same men often acted as arbitrators between suitors. They remained at all times private persons, not public officials; their functioning depended upon their knowledge of the law and the integrity of their judicial reputations.

Furthermore, the brehons had no connection whatsoever with the individual tuatha or with their kings. They were completely private, national in scope, and were used by disputants throughout Ireland. Moreover, and this is a vital point, in contrast to the system of private Roman lawyers, the brehon was all there was; there were no other judges, no 'public' judges of any kind, in ancient Ireland.

It was the brehons who were schooled in the law, and who added glosses and applications to the law to fit changing conditions. Furthermore, there was no monopoly, in any sense, of the brehon jurists; instead, several competing schools of jurisprudence existed and competed for the custom of the Irish people. How were the decisions of the brehons enforced? Through an elaborate, voluntarily developed system of 'insurance,' or sureties. Men were linked together by a variety of surety relationships by which they guaran?teed one another for the righting of wrongs, and for the enforcement of justice and the decisions of the brehons. In short, the brehons themselves were not involved in the enforcement of decisions, which rested again with private individuals linked through sureties. There were various types of surety. For example, the surety would guarantee with his own property the payment of a debt, and then join the plaintiff in enforcing a debt judgement if the debtor refused to pay. In that case, the debtor would have to pay double damages: one to the original creditor, and another as compensation to his surety. And this system applied to all offences, aggressions and assaults as well as commercial contracts; in short, it applied to all cases of what we would call 'civil' and 'criminal' law. All criminals were considered to be 'debtors' who owed restitution and compensation to their victims, who thus became their 'creditors.' The victim would gather his sureties around him and pro?ceed to apprehend the criminal or to proclaim his suit publicly and demand that the defendant submit to adjudication of their dispute with the brehons. The criminal might then send his own sureties to negotiate a settlement or agree to submit the dispute to the brehons. If he did not do so, he was considered an 'outlaw' by the entire community; he could no longer enforce any claim of his own in the courts, and he was treated to the opprobrium of the entire community.
There were occasional 'wars,' to be sure, in the thousand years of Celtic Ireland, but they were minor brawls, negligible compared to the devastating wars that racked the rest of Europe. As Professor Peden points out,
'without the coercive apparatus of the State which can through taxation and conscription mobilize large amounts of arms and manpower, the Irish were unable to sustain any large scale military force in the field for any length of time. Irish wars were pitiful brawls and cattle raids by European standards.'


www.mises.org...

And an excellent Treatise written by one of our Founders Thomas Paine:
Society is a Blessing but Government is Evil


edit on 6-12-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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Thank you for your input on my thread and I appreciate your clarifications.



What you describe as "in practice" is not free market capitalism. It is corporatism/fascism and government intervention sold as capitalism through media and it gets repeated ad nausea here and elsewhere. So it is wrong to say this is capitalism in practice in any form.


Yes you are correct. As I said, we say that we are a Free Market Capitalist Society, but in practice it IS Corporatism. I described how it is, I should have clarified WHAT IT IS.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. -Benito Mussolini.



Here is another area where you and I have a problem. Democracy is not mentioned on the Constitution for a reason. The founders abhorred it! Democracy is not the fundamental driving force behind a free republic it is the anti thesis to it. Democracy and the pernicious idea that we are one is what has led to the idea that all things are open to a vote. That every aspect of our lives can be regulated by the 51% over the other 49%, that is mob rule not a free republic. The whole point of the free republic is to limit government to upholding and protecting rights period. For instance Congress has not constitutional authority to pass a bill telling us we have to buy health care. In fact it has no constitutional authority to tell us anything, it only has authority to operate the federal government in protection of rights and free trade period so it operates completely outside of its scope of delegated authority and that is because of the lie that we are a democracy in any way shape or form.


I'm fully aware that the U.S. is not a Democracy, it is a Republic. The Founding Fathers created a Republic because they felt that government should MEDIATE instead of MIRROR Public Opinion due to the fact that the public tends to follow trends and ideology. However, voting is a Democratic concept whether or not the masses are voting on Legislation on Elections. That being said, Direct Democracy is functional in 21/50 States in the Unions with the Initiate, Referendum, and Recall Systems in which citizens can Vote on Laws, Recall Elected Officers, and Referendums for Constitutional Amendments. This system is debatable but I feel that it is necessary in some cases. For example, you might have heard of the California State Government issues I.O.U.s to its constituents because the State Assembly hadn't passed a budget. The Legislature broke a state record for the longest period of not having a budget, which started to affect the economy tremendously. As an incentive for the legislature, voters passed an initiative requiring that the State Legislature not be paid salary until they pass a budget, seems pretty effective.

I also don't think we should be Socialist but I do believe there should be a Socialized Healthcare so that the poor are able to get healthcare. (FTW, I don't agree with Barack Obama's Insurance Reform) This though wouldn't have to entail not allowing a Free Market Healthcare System, just a system that the poor can use. People say we will be like Canada, blah blah blah, propoganda. However they don't tell you that the best health care in the world is in France Source and they have Universal Healthcare. However they are a Unilateral Government where power is centralized instead of dispersed throughout the Union, which I disagree with.



Welcome to the socialist democracy which has supplanted the free republic. Just trying to get back control over the mediums of information to the people will not fix this problem the problem is the democracy itself and the fact it is not what we started out with! It wrongly leads people to believe the 51% have the right to rule over the other 49%.


I don't agree with Mob Rules, I do agree with a Republic. However, Corporatism is not Socialist Democracy, if it was a SD it be intended to be beneficial to the public instead it is fascist as it only benefits the Power/Economical Elite. That being said, I don't agree being a total Socialist Democracy, maybe some things should be socialized but we NEED a Free Market. If we initiate social programs we would need another Bill of Rights to clarify what is allowed to be Socialized instead of everything. Remember Public Education, the Postal Service, and Social Security are all forms of Socialism.

I enjoyed the information you brought up as well. I need some more time to read it though, I will comment on it when I do.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by elfulanozutan0
 




That being said, Direct Democracy is functional in 21/50 States in the Unions with the Initiate, Referendum, and Recall Systems in which citizens can Vote on Laws, Recall Elected Officers, and Referendums for Constitutional Amendments. This system is debatable but I feel that it is necessary in some cases.

Well something most people do not understand or know is we were never meant to be one big republic we are supposed to be a union of the several states for mutual protection and free trade period. The Federal government has no juridiction in the states period it has nothing to do with the states except for mutual defense if attacked and to protect free trade among the states and internationally not to regulate it as is understood today. To regulate it as written in the constitution meant to "make it regular" by allowing and ensuring the free flow thereof, not to control and manage it as is done today. The commerce clause in the constituion was a mistake.
One of the things the states agreed to by joining the union was to gauruntee a republican form of government to their people so I have no problem with a referandum as long as it is limited to controlling thier government such as the California example. But a referandum on stealing my money to pay for someone elses health care is theft by the mob and should not be tolerated

I also don't think we should be Socialist but I do believe there should be a Socialized Healthcare so that the poor are able to get healthcare. (FTW, I don't agree with Barack Obama's Insurance Reform) This though wouldn't have to entail not allowing a Free Market Healthcare System, just a system that the poor can use.

And how would you pay for this socialised health care? By stealing from others against their will and giving to the needy? If so you do not understand freedom.
The reason the poor have any trouble accessing health care is precisely because of the managed care model and government intervention has sent costs though the roof. Still the poor already have access to health care, every state in the union has some form of Medicare and no one can be turned away from a hospital despite their ability to pay. As Ron Paul a medical doctor said if you think health care is expensive now wait till it is free!
I am not against social programs as long as they are funded voluntarily. The minute you bring government force to bear in financing your program by stealing from me under threat of force you become my enemy and an enemy to freedom! And I don't see wealthy Americans heading for France for their medical care. Free markets bring costs down. Government intervention raises costs and always ends up being a disaster.

That being said, I don't agree being a total Socialist Democracy, maybe some things should be socialized but we NEED a Free Market. If we initiate social programs we would need another Bill of Rights to clarify what is allowed to be Socialized instead of everything. Remember Public Education, the Postal Service, and Social Security are all forms of Socialism.


This is where we part ways my friend. You cant have some forms of stealing legal and others not. If socialism is so great how come no government in history has never made it voluntary but instead forced it on people? Government is instituted by the consent of the people. If I can give consent I can withdraw consent. I do not consent to the theft of the fruits of my labors period! I will decide how and when I give to the poor! Our whole society is based on the principle it is ok to steal from folks against their will to finance government and the needy and we wonder why our society is crumbling. It is built on a foundation of sand called theft!

No government deserves to exist if it cannot be financed voluntarily without threat of force or violence. We once took care of our poor in this country voluntarily there is no reason we cannot do it again. Get government out of it and people cannot milk the system and it becomes much more efficient and more can be helped and you don't have a whole welfare class that sponge off the government. Forcing people to do good by stealing their money does not teach charity it only breeds resentment and facilitates further police state control to steal more money. The very idea the people think a little theft in the name of doing good turns my stomach.

There is nothing wrong with helping the poor etc. but the minute it becomes forced it becomes evil! If we are to grow, progress, and become the decentralized free self sufficient society we all hope for we have to stop forcing people to do good. Their desire to do good has to be a free will choice. Until enough can do that of their own free will we will never have the open free society we desire. And forcing people in the name of doing good is a major road block to our progress.


I enjoyed the information you brought up as well. I need some more time to read it though, I will comment on it when I do.


Thanks I hope you spend some time reading it is well worth it



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


You are entirely correct on your interpretations of the Constitution and what our Republic was meant to be. Unfortunately, Regulation has turned into Deregualtion which led to the corrupt practices of business. I believe in a Free Market economy but not when the Ruling Class are Free to control the Market. I would rather see a society in which economies are controlled from the ground up, not vice-versa. You're correct about society being built on the concept of stealing to give to others... But that is not the Philosophy in which this country was founded on.

Have you heard the phrase: Don't Steal, The Government Hates Competition? It's 100% true.

I think every state should have an Initiative System but the Federal Republic is too big for it to happen on a national level. I don't propose though having socialized health care manifesting from an Initiative Proposal and Independent States don't have the resources to do so either..

I completely understand the stance against socialized healthcare and the reasoning behind it. I would prefer it to happen on a National Level but not in the way that our government operates, the Medical Industry would right the legislation in which they would profit directly from the government. What about Obama's Insurance Reform, they claim all these people that were not previously insured are now insured but they don't tell you, for example with the case with my cousin who works for JP-Morgan/Chase that the people who have already been insured through business are paying higher rates, kind of like what you mention on stealing money from people who don't volunteer it. I'm not a liberal person in the eye of politics, maybe socially, but not politics. When you ask how would you finance it, good question. I would say cut unnecessary spending like earmarks, blank checks to the Pentagon, and undisclosed spending to fund a Universal Health Care System. (Even though the government spends money they don't have, but they can make it in then air stealing value from the already existing currency.)

"When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food they call me a Communist." -Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Brazil (February 7th, 1909 - August 27, 1999)

But the issue of Socialized Health Care can be answered with a different solution. Instead of trying to give healthcare to people who can't afford it, why don't we try to create a healthier society, specifically in what we eat. In my government book, I can't recall where at the moment, there is a chart of gov't spending from the 1960s and one from the 2000s. In the 1960s less money was spent on social programs and more on building roads, education, etc. But now since we have a lower quality of health more government spending is spent on healthcare on anything else besides the Military Industrial Complex.

But government will always tax and the power to tax is the power to destroy that's why states can't tax the federal government like in the Marshall Court decisions. So if we are being taxed why can't we cut unnecessary spending to reallocate funding for a universal health care in a way that it wouldn't raise taxes? And what about corporations that avoid paying corporate income tax due to loopholes in the IRS? Or business that started in the U.S. then moved out of the country to avoid paying taxes but they still hold major influence over our government and economy? Halliburton moved to the U.A.E. and Exxon/Mobile left the country a few years back. If we demand that ANY business doing business on U.S. Soil they must pay a corporate income tax.

The reasoning behind this is if you want to influence the voters who pay taxes into a way that will make your mega-corporation more profitable then why are you any exception on paying income tax when EVERY small business in the U.S. does?

You're correct about not forcing people to do good. You can't force someone to change against there will, that's why I focus on a Cultural Renaissance to change the mind set of the people from thinking individually to thinking of everything as Interbeing.

I like your ideology and would enjoy to build on common-ground with someone such as yourself. Like the cynic jesture said we are in disconnected outrage. So I believe like-minded individuals, given they don't agree on everything must put there differences aside and build on common ground. People who are politically awake tend to surround themselves with people who have some common ground, given they don't agree on everything. But the more they associate with each other the more they will find more common grounds to build on and their views could potentially unite into a strong movement.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by elfulanozutan0
 


I am no expert in American politics, nor an expert in the division of power between state and federal governmental bodies. I cannot contribute to the discussion regarding specifics within your constitution or legislature. I will offer up my views on how to fix a representative parliamentary system, that I am familiar with. Some of my suggestions, may work well in your system as well.

First and foremost, my view of the average citizen is one of an apathetic disinterested person, mostly ignorant of the way government works. My belief is that the average citizen feels this way because they have no influence on politics once the vote as been cast. There is a disconnection between the people who are elected to represent us, and well us... How can they represent us if the people have no say in the voting within the government? If they really represent us, they must take into account our views on issues. This requires freedom to follow the actual will of the people over party politics.

An entire shakedown of the political system must occur. The first issue being the easiest to solve, we must pass a law requiring officials, to seek out public opinion on laws wishing to be passed. Policy shifts, military spending, budget issues, and taxation must be presented to us. As well as the pros and cons on each issue. How to accomplish this? We get our representatives, to hold weekly forums on the issue. Set up facebook pages, have polls done, actively seek out opinions, these are only a few examples. Once the people figure out, that they actually have a say again, we might get our country on the right track.

Secondly, we must make it easier to remove politicians from office. It must not become necessary to have a revolution to change our government. By forcing them to consult us on the issues, we will hopefully keep them honest, but should they chose to ignore the people they represent or become corrupt from corporate funding we need a legitimate way of confronting this issue. An impartial civillian oversight committee should, every three months, hold a forum in which civilians with grievances can air their issues over the representatives actions. If serious allegations are brought to light, and they find there to be truth to the allegations, the representative can be removed from power.

Finally, we must dissolve the current party system and put in place a representative system. Parties can still exist for like minded politicians, but one doctrine would no longer be the only way. More ideas would come forward, and better ways of doing things. Fractitious though the public may be, I believe that given all the information we would band together. Our goals as a nation would become clearer and without all the kneejerk delaying tactics, caused by posturing for control of the government we might be able to get things done. Without party discipline the representatives would be allowed to vote on what is best for the nation, not what is best for the party.

This may be a pipe dream and I would love input. Please refrain from calling me an idiot when you point out errors in my statements, but criticism is appreciated.

edit on 7-12-2010 by the cynic jester because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by elfulanozutan0
 



Regulation has turned into Deregualtion which led to the corrupt practices of business.


Geeze I can't believe I am hearing this from you... You have it completely backward we went from unregulated to super regulation which led to corrupt business practices by POLITICALLY CONNECTED CORPS protected by said regulation. All regulation favors the politically connected over their competition which allows the big corps to gain the power to run everything. It does nothing to protect consumers as you have been led to believe. All the companies that received bailouts would be out of business now if it wasn't for this ability to intervene by government.


I would rather see a society in which economies are controlled from the ground up, not vice-versa.


Oh wow... YOUR LVING IN ONE NOW! Again I can't believe my ears. If this is what you believe then we have absolutely nothing in common and you don't understand the first thing about freedom. Control i.e. government intervention into the economy is what has led us to the brink of disaster. Your trying to fix socialist democracy by controlling it better. It can't be done the control itself is the fundamental flaw and problem!

True free markets are proven in history to be the fairest and most prosperous because if a company does not provide a good product or service they will go out of business with no government to protect them because people will vote with their wallets and go elsewhere, they are self regulating this is a proven fact. This is where everyones programming kicks in and says bbbbut what's to stop these big corporations for controlling everything without some kind of control. Read the paragraph above again on how they got that big ^^^ then read the one below.

Corporations should be outlawed period All they are is to limit liability for their actions. And who grants corporate Charters? Government so the Corporations who line the pockets of government most get the most perks and benefits in the way of legislation and looking the other way etc. Man I thought you had an understanding of this but to say you want an economy controlled from the ground up and not even know you live in one it astonishing.
edit on 8-12-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I think you took my words out of context.



You have it completely backward we went from unregulated to super regulation which led to corrupt business practices by POLITICALLY CONNECTED CORPS protected by said regulation.


We are a Corportocracy in an illusion of a free market. Corporate Self-Regulation is the exact same as deregulation. Government sets in laws that govern the ways that businesses operate. If it wasn't for some form of regulation CORPORATIONS would be allowed to do as they please with no type of barriers or consequences. I disagree with the way that regulation in government affairs is handled, because the CORPORATIONS ELECT GOVERNMENT, LOBBY THEM, thus regulating themselves. But it turns out that their regulation is just regulating the industry in a way that we have to buy into the machine, like we are today. They buy patents and create legislation and build economies that make their raping of our bank accounts inevitable. Regulation WAS meant to keep corporations in check but when the government is in cahoots with big business regulation is used to regulate how the masses trade instead of regulating the EXTREMELY POWERFUL BUSINESSES. I don't really think small business should be regulated, maybe on health and safety codes but that's nearly it. I do agree that Corporations should be banished, but if they are to stay around they should be regulated for them to be keeped in check.

BTW... I didn't agree with a single bailout nor will I ever agree with bailing out people who wrecked the economy through selfish greed and when their mistakes were brought to the public eye the held the economy hostage until they got their way.



Oh wow... YOUR LVING IN ONE NOW! Again I can't believe my ears. If this is what you believe then we have absolutely nothing in common and you don't understand the first thing about freedom.


Our economy and government is controlled by Political / Economical Elite that rule from the Top of the Pyramid. Regulation and control should be in the hands of the people without government or business interfering. Again my words were interpreted differently then what message they were meant to convey. From the ground up I mean the exact thing you mean by getting rid of corporations and having an economy based around small businesses instead of being controlled by gamblers in pin-stripe suits.

Controlling a Socialist Democracy? The United States is not a Socialist Democracy. It is a Federal Republic, in Theory and a Corportocracy in Practice.



Government so the Corporations who line the pockets of government most get the most perks and benefits in the way of legislation and looking the other way etc. Man I thought you had an understanding of this but to say you want an economy controlled from the ground up and not even know you live in one it astonishing.


That's the way a Corporatism functions, which is what I highlighted multiple times. The economy is controlled from the Top down to the bottom. Have you heard of the Trickle-Down Theory? When I say Controlled from the ground up I mean have economies that are LOCALIZED (not corporatist) and self efficient and unreliable on other areas for sustainability like I highlighted in my OP... so that if one economy falls then the rest of the dominoes won't go down with them.

The way I see it is that we view the distribution and ways of corporatism the same and I say we are controlled from the top but you personified it is from the bottom. And like I said Deregulation is the same as Corporations Self-Regulation. "We're the Regulators that Deregulate" is a metaphor.

I appreciate your input and as I mentioned multiple times before I always implore others to reach out and build on common ground. I would rather us have differences then follow the same ideology. Even if we only agree on %5 of things that is better for both us because it means we think for ourselves and are less susceptible to suggestive thinking and subscribing to viewpoints and ideologies of others.

I exponentially implore on expanding on common ground. As people learn in Political Science: People who are politically awake tend to research more than others who are not. They tend to surround themselves with people that share some similar common ground as them. When they communicate with each other the more their view points tend to merge together.

It seems we share very common ground, at least on the fact that we don't like the dual party system and corporatism. Build on those concepts, set aside any differences in terminology and you will see views collaborating instead of disagreeing.




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