9/11 Truth Ads Appearing On TV in New York City

WTC 7 is actually indicative that any controlled demolition at the WTC is nonsense.

Truthers who believe in cd at the WTC seem usually to believe that it applied to WTC 1, 2 & 7. WTC 3,4,5 & 6, just get ignored for some reason.

Those same truthers also usually seem to believe that the cd of the Towers was covered, disguised, by the perps arranging for planes to be flown into them. So far as WTC 7 is concerned it is obvious that no such cover or disguise was organized. The fact that WTC 7 was hit by debris from WTC 1 and fires were started was a chance event that could not have been planned for. Therefore, the truthers I have described above must believe that the perps just planned to blow up WTC 7, as it stood, and with the world watching. I suggest that is barmy.

WTC 7 was unstable and burning for hours before it collapsed. The only reason I have seen put forward to suggest a cd is that the final few seconds " looked like it ", as if that proves anything. Instead of trying to convince themselves with repeated video of those last few seconds I think truthers would do well to go back to when the penthouse falls in. What is happening internally then ?

I know this won't make much sense to some of you; but the US does not play nice with the rest of the world; not even its allies.
I wonder if some of you good folks are aware of how deeply involved our government has been with terrorists and brutal dictators. I wonder if some of you know anything about History, Economics, Law, Foreign policy, or Warfare. I wonder if some are even aware of how this government works, what think tanks and foundations are important and who runs them.

The US over the last 60 years has become the most ardent supporter of terrorism and terrorist regimes that has ever existed on the face of the Earth. That is just a fact. You can rationalize it however you like, but the truth is the truth, and If you aren't a Truther, then what are you?

Your saying it's impossible to fight fires this high up with hoses? Not trying to argue just having discussion

My understanding is that the water supply had been knocked out by the collapse of the towers. You don’t send men 47 stories up without a stabile supply of water. Now whether it was water internal to the building or ground pipes, I don't know. I suspect it was building water due to the hieght.

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by hooper

 

zelikow is a dual citizen he was appointed not elected. Chertoff dual citizen appointed not elected. Zakheim not elected. I don't know what the answer is but not having people with allegence to another country involved in gov or the investigation is a start. Yeah?

Oh here we go with the "dual citizen" crap. There are a lot of people in the government, and "dual citizen" or not you have made the blanket accusation that they are all liars.

Citizenship and allegence are two different things. Citizenship is technical, allegence is ethical. One does not prove or disprove the other.

Unless, of course, you consider "citizenship" in the State of Isreal as an automatic deal breaker.

reply to post by mayabong


In the towers the FF were told early on that primary focus was rescue - experienced commanders knew that
trying fight a fully involved floor let alone 5 or 6 such floors was futile. Even if standpipes were not damaged
and those above impact zone were cut by the aircraft impacts would not have enough water to extinguish
the fires.

Engine company crews were told drop half their loads and double up. With no elevators running crews would face an exhausting climb up.

Crews were carrying enough hose to protect themselves while doing search and rescue of the affected floors

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by hooper

 

zelikow is a dual citizen he was appointed not elected. Chertoff dual citizen appointed not elected. Zakheim not elected. I don't know what the answer is but not having people with allegence to another country involved in gov or the investigation is a start. Yeah?

Oh here we go with the "dual citizen" crap. There are a lot of people in the government, and "dual citizen" or not you have made the blanket accusation that they are all liars.

Citizenship and allegence are two different things. Citizenship is technical, allegence is ethical. One does not prove or disprove the other.

Unless, of course, you consider "citizenship" in the State of Isreal as an automatic deal breaker.

Sorry I think its a huge issue. Of course Israel gets a free pass. But if it was a bunch of Dual citizens from Turkey, or Mexico, or Saudi Arabia, or Zimbabwe in there, People would raise a huge fuss. In regards to 911 you have the same guy who helped with the Preemptive war strategy in Iraq, being the head of the 911 commission. I mean what the hell?
You got Eric Cantor, telling Bibi that he's gonna protect them from the United States president? This dual citizen thing is a huge issue. I don't care how you try to slice it and package it to me.

reply to post by Smack

I know this won't make much sense to some of you; but the US does not play nice with the rest of the world; not even its allies.

Really? Care to back that up? I think it is often pretty "nice" how we spend billions helping disaster victims in other nations. I don't think you have any clue what not playing "nice" really looks like.

I wonder if some of you good folks are aware of how deeply involved our government has been with terrorists and brutal dictators.

Yes, we all know. There is nothing new here, you're not the first to point out that the US of A, over the years, has had to get in bed with some pretty skanky customers.

I wonder if some of you know anything about History, Economics, Law, Foreign policy, or Warfare. I wonder if some are even aware of how this government works, what think tanks and foundations are important and who runs them.

Again, you're not throwing out any breaking news. Governments, like all other human institutions, are complex mechanisms that may, at the same time, reflect the will of the governed and the bias of those operating the day to day workings of the government.

The US over the last 60 years has become the most ardent supporter of terrorism and terrorist regimes that has ever existed on the face of the Earth. That is just a fact.

Nope, sorry, that is what we all refer to as an "opinion". Facts are things like "Christmas in the USA is generally celebrated on December 25th". See how that works? My "fact" can be checked and tested, your "fact" cannot.

You can rationalize it however you like, but the truth is the truth, and If you aren't a Truther, then what are you?

Yeah, you're right. The truth is the truth. But you're not there yet.

reply to post by thedman


I just came across this video of the FF radios. Not much fire going on according to them.

reply to post by mayabong

Sorry I think its a huge issue.

I have no doubt that you do. For sure.

Of course Israel gets a free pass.

Yes, because God knows there is never a word of criticism of Isreal ever heard anywhere.

But if it was a bunch of Dual citizens from Turkey, or Mexico, or Saudi Arabia, or Zimbabwe in there, People would raise a huge fuss.

Really? Why? If I am an American citizen who owns property overseas I may hold citizenship in that nation by virtue of land ownership - how does that make me a bad American not worthy of trust? I may have emigrated here from another country and gained US citizenship, but of course still hold citizenship in the nation where I was born - how does that make me a bad American or an American of inferior integrity? Do you have any clue what it takes, or even if it is possible to resign your citizenship in another country? Just out of curiosity - if I am a natural born US citizen - how do I go about forfieting my citizenship? Another question - how do I stop another country from granting me citizenship even if I did not apply for it?

In regards to 911 you have the same guy who helped with the Preemptive war strategy in Iraq, being the head of the 911 commission. I mean what the hell?

Yeah, what the hell? Unless you first assume that 9/11 is a big US government conspiracy to begin with then that question is meaningless.

You got Eric Cantor, telling Bibi that he's gonna protect them from the United States president? This dual citizen thing is a huge issue. I don't care how you try to slice it and package it to me.

Again, its real only a big issue with you and few others with this particularly ugly world view.

Originally posted by Smack
I know this won't make much sense to some of you; but the US does not play nice with the rest of the world; not even its allies.
I wonder if some of you good folks are aware of how deeply involved our government has been with terrorists and brutal dictators. I wonder if some of you know anything about History, Economics, Law, Foreign policy, or Warfare. I wonder if some are even aware of how this government works, what think tanks and foundations are important and who runs them.

The US over the last 60 years has become the most ardent supporter of terrorism and terrorist regimes that has ever existed on the face of the Earth. That is just a fact. You can rationalize it however you like, but the truth is the truth, and If you aren't a Truther, then what are you?

I don't know what nationality you are as you don't say ; but I never cease to be amazed by the virulent anti-US administration views expressed on here, often by US citizens. There is obviously a strong correlation between such negative views and a belief in an inside job.

I am not a US citizen citizen and I would not claim that the US has never put a foot wrong or backed the wrong despot but to paint everything as black as you do is simply absurd and perverse.

For example, I am not aware of a matter of vital national security to the US that required sending forces to europe in WW 1 that resulted in suffering over 300,000 casualties. It is not obvious why the US should have agreed to help my country by subscribing to the idea that Nazi Germany should be defeated first even though it was Japan that had attacked her.

Have you heard of the Marshall Plan ? $13 billion dollars from US taxpayers for the reconstruction of war-torn europe.

Throughout the cold war thousands of US troops were based in europe as a deterrent to soviet tanks rolling west.

The fact is that the US has done some incredibly unselfish things at the cost of much blood and treasure. It has, in my view, tried to extend democracy and freedom and has not been imperialist. Ok, it has made some mistakes but the intentions have been right. What exactly has the Arab world or Asia done to improve the lot of the world's citizens ?

If you are going to knock the US inject some balance.

"POINT is....WTC 7 was going to be torn down anyway!!!! Just as the rest of the buildings that were damaged too heavily to be salvaged were also taken down!!!"

And since it was going to be torn down, the owner of WTC 7 allegedly committing insurance fraud by demolishing his own building, and allegedly being a co-conspirator in initiating this phony War on Terror, is no big deal right?


"This whole, "educate people about WTC 7" drivel is nothing but desperate conspiracy mongoring, as it's already established by eyewitness accounts that the collapse of WTC 1 severely damaged WTC 7 and that the fires were doing at least something detrimental to the structure, which gives the NIST report at least some credibility"

Are you talking about the same NIST report which was proven wrong by a high school teacher?


"I can't help that any more than I can help most college students being unable to locate Afghanistan on a map"

Are these the same college students who believe the Official 9/11 Fairy Tale, if they have ever heard of 9/11 that is?


"My understanding is that the water supply had been knocked out by the collapse of the towers. You don’t send men 47 stories up without a stabile supply of water."

Oh really? There were fires in WTC 7 on the 47th Floor? I thought there were only four or five floors which had fires, the highest being the 12th or 13th. Wow! You learn something new everyday from the knowledgeable debunkers on this site.


"Sorry I think its a huge issue. Of course Israel gets a free pass."

Which is why, if they wanted to, they would be able to pull off something like 9/11 without any of the braindead morons in the General Public suspecting a thing or pointing a finger at them.

9/11 was suspicious to say the least. Anyone who discounts issues like the magic passport, the insider trading and the total lack of evidence to suggest these would-be-terrorists were capable of performing such aerial maneuvers isn't paying attention. The financial records alone, would call for a further investigation. No one understands the whole implications as to what happened on 9/11, but too attribute such acts to would be amateur terrostrists would prove the real crime. No way those 19 hijackers with box cutters could have done this. Idiots will always side with Government, because their mind has been governed.

"I don't know what nationality you are as you don't say ; but I never cease to be amazed by the virulent anti-US administration views expressed on here, often by US citizens. There is obviously a strong correlation between such negative views and a belief in an inside job."

So why don't you go and hang out on a site where you would feel more comfortable, like one which is full of blind idiotic patriots?


"I am not a US citizen"

Obviously not, considering your promotion of treasonous views on 9/11.


"For example, I am not aware of a matter of vital national security to the US that required sending forces to europe in WW 1 that resulted in suffering over 300,000 casualties. It is not obvious why the US should have agreed to help my country by subscribing to the idea that Nazi Germany should be defeated first even though it was Japan that had attacked her.Have you heard of the Marshall Plan ? $13 billion dollars from US taxpayers for the reconstruction of war-torn europe. Throughout the cold war thousands of US troops were based in europe as a deterrent to soviet tanks rolling west."

Is this thread about WWII, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War or WTC 7? Talk about steering the discussion into a ditch? But that's okay; I am sure that the excelllent on the ball mods on this site will recognize your absurd diversion and cite you for it. I guess no Happy Meal for you tonight.


"The fact is that the US has done some incredibly unselfish things at the cost of much blood and treasure. It has, in my view, tried to extend democracy and freedom and has not been imperialist. Ok, it has made some mistakes but the intentions have been right."

How exactly do you know what the USA's intentions have been over the past century. Are you a Government Agent who is 150 years old or something?


"What exactly has the Arab world or Asia done to improve the lot of the world's citizens ?"

Gotta love a person who wears his agenda on his sleeve.


"If you are going to knock the US inject some balance."

USA has great fast food. How is that for balance?

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Thank you for so quickly confirming my observation about the correlation between anti-American views and trutherism.

Btw, you should have noticed that I did not divert the thread, Smack did.

Originally posted by jprophet420

Good grief, the hyperbole the trusters are shoveling out knows no bounds. This whole, "educate people about WTC 7" drivel is nothing but desperate conspiracy mongoring, as it's already established by eyewitness accounts that the collapse of WTC 1 severely damaged WTC 7 and that the fires were doing at least something detrimental to the structure, which gives the NIST report at least some credibility...

Already established by eyewitness accounts indeed. And the NIST report says it was not a factor. So that means we need a new investigation, and it also means that you are using pieces of contradictory evidence to attempt to...

There is no contradiction in any of the evidence. The only problem areas in all of this is due the deliberate misrepresentations of the conspiracy theorists...or to be precise, the damned fool conspiracy web sites the theorists are getting all their information from...to manufacture an artificial veneer of impropriety. The fact of the matter is, after WTC 1 collapsed all over the place Barry Jennings specifically said the lobby looked like King Kong came in and trashed it, which makes a lie out of the "WTC 7 suffered no damage" claims, and NYFD deputy chief Peter Hayden testified that the fires were out of control and were causing a three story tall bulge in the side of the structure, which makes a lie out of the "fires were almost out" claims. These are the facts and they cannot be debated.

Between the two, it gives the NIST report of fire induced structural collapse at least some credibility, and it thoroughly discredits any conspiracy mongor attempting to spin these "controlled demolitions" stories to instigate false public unrest. Have as many investigations on how the fires actually instigated the collapse as you'd like, but the fact is, this whole, "it fell so mysteriously" bit is nothing but reprehensible conspiracy mongoring and I see no legitimate need to continue poisoning the well with it. This was Weedwhackers ultimate point and I do agree with it.

Well I haven't figured out your motive, but that's irrelevant to this thread or any other for that matter. The methodology is noted. And quite frankly it is laughable.

Laugh away as you see fit, as I don't care whether you laugh at me or not. All I care about is if you can show why even an iota of anything I'm posting here is false. Can you?

reply to post by hooper

Really? Care to back that up? I think it is often pretty "nice" how we spend billions helping disaster victims in other nations. I don't think you have any clue what not playing "nice" really looks like.

Are you saying there is no truth to my assertion? Because that would sound pretty foolish to most people keeping up with current affairs.

Yes, we all know. There is nothing new here, you're not the first to point out that the US of A, over the years, has had to get in bed with some pretty skanky customers.

Yes, you would have to concede that part or you really would sound foolish.

Again, you're not throwing out any breaking news. Governments, like all other human institutions, are complex mechanisms that may, at the same time, reflect the will of the governed and the bias of those operating the day to day workings of the government.

I will view that as an honest self-appraisal of your ignorance on the subject.

Nope, sorry, that is what we all refer to as an "opinion". Facts are things like "Christmas in the USA is generally celebrated on December 25th". See how that works? My "fact" can be checked and tested, your "fact" cannot.

I have shocking news for you - Jesus (if he ever existed) wasn't born on Dec.25 . Now go fact check that and while you're at it, read some history at least.
I recommend Carrol Quigley's "Tragedy and Hope", it's a long read, but well worth it. I can supply you with a scholarly book list if you wish.

Originally posted by TheWatcher11
9/11 was suspicious to say the least. Anyone who discounts issues like the magic passport, the insider trading and the total lack of evidence to suggest these would-be-terrorists were capable of performing such aerial maneuvers isn't paying attention. The financial records alone, would call for a further investigation. No one understands the whole implications as to what happened on 9/11, but too attribute such acts to would be amateur terrostrists would prove the real crime. No way those 19 hijackers with box cutters could have done this. Idiots will always side with Government, because their mind has been governed.

Your logic makes no sense. If you have questions about the magic passport, the flight capabilities of the pilots, or whatever, that's one thing...but what does that have anythign to do with WTC 7? There is enough suitable evidence that the towers really were brought down by fire induced structural failure, so trying to manufacture baseless conspiracies of the WTC 7 being destroyed by super duper controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, UFOs, or whatever, solely becuase of problems you're seeing with some OTHER building is making a mountain of of a proverbial molehill.

I'd have thought your conspiracy theories suffered from too much application of Rube Goldberg obfuscation as it is, without your wanting to introduce more. Not wanting to be an idiot who mindlessly believes everything the gov't says doesn't grant anyone any license to become an idiot who mindlessly believes everything Dylan Avery and David Ray Griffin says.

reply to post by Alfie1

I am not a US citizen citizen and I would not claim that the US has never put a foot wrong or backed the wrong despot but to paint everything as black as you do is simply absurd and perverse.

Then you are arguing from a position of complete ignorance.

What is the greater absurdity; that the US has 700 military bases in over 130 nations, or that I object to my government occupying foreign nations and slaughtering people in my name?

Which is the greater perversity; that my government openly admits to torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination of anyone the President deems a threat, and the pretense of supporting democracy while supporting murderous undemocratic regimes, or that I want accountability, justice, and peace?

As to the rest - a point by point refutation of the stale, 4th grade historical fallacies you cite, would take up too much of my time.

reply to post by mayabong


Thats because they did not reach the impact zones (93-98 in North Tower, 78-83 in South Tower)

This is where the aircraft struck the building and spilled jet fuel started the fires

You are not going to play "Only 2 pockets of fire " crap are you.....?

FDNY was only beginning to reach the lowest area of impact zone on 78th floor of South Tower Chief Orio
Palmer had gone ahead and radioed what he found. 78 floor was sky lobby where people changed elevators
not a lot to burn as floor was mostly tile/marble and machinery. Only few offices with combustibles

Chief Palmer (who knew the towers well) had found freight elevator which ran to 41st floor cutting distance to climb in half. Palmer was a marathon runner and being a chief officer was not carrying hose or heavy tools to impede him.

Fire Marshal Ron Bucca also made it up the stairs to the 78th floor.

If listen close to radio will hear that most of crew was still in stairway when building collapsed

reply to post by Smack


I think its more countries than that. When I watch football on sundays (yes I watch football lol) they say the games are broadcast to soldiers in 177 countries! I can't even name 177 countries lol.