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Should "Creationism" be considered a sign of insanity?

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by TheWill
 



If the US considers atheism to be a religion, does this mean that I can go over there, preach atheism and live tax-free?


How about joining a church first. Every religion needs it´s church.



First Church of Atheism


With the First Church of Atheism you can become ordained quickly, easily, and at no cost.
As a legally ordained minister, you will be able to perform weddings, funerals, commitment ceremonies, and other functions that are reserved for members of clergy.

Since its inception, the First Church of Atheism has amassed quite a following around the world. FCA ministers come from all walks of life. They are every race, ethnicity, age, and creed. The one thing binding every FCA minister is his or her belief in science, reason, and reality.

The First Church of Atheism wants you to pursue and cherish your realistic beliefs without interference from any outside agency, including government or church authority. We provide our service for free, as we believe it is every atheists right to perform these clergy functions.

You may become a legally ordained minister for life, without cost, and without question.


Peace




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The biggest problem with the traditional evolutionary theory, which does not lead automatically to a traditional creationist POV by any means btw, is - the differentiation of species, or in creationist terms the idea that each was made unto it's own kind. We do not see much in the fossil record showing how all the species differentiated themselves from a common ansestor. There doesn't seem to be any common origin between an elephant and a gopher.


The heck we don't. There is a clear chain of evidence that birds today are descended from the first feathered dinosaurs. Look around the world today: why did Africans and Asians and Indians differentiate themselves ?

Because we all EVOLVED to meet different conditions.

Evolution is not our past: we are living it.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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It is my long-held belief that yes, creationism is a form of insanity. It starts when creationists begin brainwashing their children at an early age and progresses from there on. S+F



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by TheWill
reply to post by oozyism
 


If the US considers atheism to be a religion, does this mean that I can go over there, preach atheism and live tax-free?



Yup. make an Atheist Church, tell your followers to send Charity money for Atheistic cause (to prove that GOD doesn't exist), then that money will be TAX free


Theism is a belief DUUUH.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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Creationism is crazy because you say so?

And you believe in evolution?
Darwin based his theory on the oberservable fact of animals adapting to their environment. Then he took this idea and said "hmm if this lizard can change color based on his environment, why can't he sprout wings and fly".
These are the kinds of statements children make. This isn't poke' mon.

I bet you also think the bible says the planet is 6000 years old to.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by 1FutureMarine1
 



Originally posted by 1FutureMarine1
Creationism is crazy because you say so?


No, it's crazy because it's contrary to observation, evidence, and logic.



And you believe in evolution?


No, it's accepted because it's scientific fact. It's not a belief, it's an acceptance.



Darwin based his theory on the oberservable fact of animals adapting to their environment.


Yes, and it's advanced so much since then.
And it was actually more based on observations of variance that weren't primarily environmental, like the beaks of finches in the Galapagos.



Then he took this idea and said "hmm if this lizard can change color based on his environment, why can't he sprout wings and fly".


...nope.
Logical fallacy: Straw man argument.

You clearly have never read "On The Origin Of Species" or anything related to the history of evolutionary biology. You're argument is from ignorance.

If you knew anything about evolution, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous claims about it.



These are the kinds of statements children make. This isn't poke' mon.


Pokemon don't evolve, they undergo bizarrely accelerated metamorphosis.



I bet you also think the bible says the planet is 6000 years old to.


Nope, though some creationists think that.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Griffo
 


If anyone is going to read any post in this thread it should be this one. I couldn't agree more, and this is why I am an atheist, not because of evolution, not because of science and progress, but because of the sheer hypocrisy and disregard of human life that we were condemned to by the 'all-knowing one' - why would he create something with the foreknowledge that were all going to sin? Why does he create a baby and make him die of hunger 2 weeks later? if there is a god, he's obviously a self-centered douchebag. I will never bow to him.

Star for you.

-Jimmy-



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Hey look, another post that insults both the intelligence of those posting on ATS and that of anyone with any level of reason.

Oozy, start contributing to conversations instead of trolling.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
1) absolutely false. there is not a single instance of any understanding coming to existance through intelligence
2) science is used to determine the unknown...many unknowns are being known via this process
3) every single understanding we have today, from the computer your using, to the food you eat, to the very shape of your body, is all examples of things "coming into existance" without intelligence as some sort of creation force. We use our personal intelligence to control and form these understandings to exploit for our own needs, but electricity is not intelligent. sand is not intelligent, gravity is not intelligent, etc.


Wow it looks as though you nailed yourself against the wall and don't even realise it....

"WE USE OUR PERSONAL INTELLIGENCE to control and form these understandings"(SIC).....blah...blah!

Where does *intellligence* come from?

What are ghosts?

What is a soul? Please don't tell me your one of those people that thinks people are SOULless.

What is psychic power and how does it manifest itself? Better yet what are its origins? What role does the pre-fix *PYSCH* play in the term *psychology*?


Originally posted by SaturnFX
insanity, as pointed out, does not mean that...you can claim insanity means peeling potato's...but you stating it means that does not make it suddenly mean that.


Actually the esoteric meaning of insanity is TO BE SANE WITHIN as IN + SANE = INSANE

just like disclosure means DISC + LO + SURE= I am sure a disc is flying low!


Originally posted by SaturnFX
Athiesm is a subculture or counterculture at the moment due to a superstitious world,


Just like scientology, masonry, the "illuminated ones" and luciferianism? I think they are also subcultures and they too think they can disobey the lord because they are special. It must be "cool" to go against "the norm" heh?


Originally posted by SaturnFX
You can stick to clearly and irrifutably incorrect use of the word "insanity". you can even contact websters and beg them to change it to what you want it to mean...but your desire for a word to mean something means absolutely nothing overall...the definition of the word cares not for your desires of it meaning something its not...definitions...cold and unmoving things they are.


Maybe you mean well but at the very least you come across as ignorant/naive. Why do you think there is such a thing as secret societies and why have they infiltrated science, government, religion, economics, etc????

I don't expect answers from you anytime soon. Your homework is to THINK!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 



Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Wow it looks as though you nailed yourself against the wall and don't even realise it....


Nope, Saturn definitely didn't.



"WE USE OUR PERSONAL INTELLIGENCE to control and form these understandings"(SIC).....blah...blah!

Where does *intellligence* come from?


Meat. Brain meat to be more specific.



What are ghosts?


Well, the evidence would point to them being nothing more than hallucinations based upon cultural constructs.



What is a soul?


A fictionalized account of consciousness.



Please don't tell me your one of those people that thinks people are SOULless.


I am. I don't know about Saturn though. Of course, what's wrong with thinking that people are soulless? Is it inherently worse to think such?



What is psychic power and how does it manifest itself?


It is fiction. It manifests itself in duping people out of hard-earned money.



Better yet what are its origins?


None.



What role does the pre-fix *PYSCH* play in the term *psychology*?


It's used as a latin derivation of the idea of 'mind', making 'psychology' the 'study of the mind'



Actually the esoteric meaning of insanity is TO BE SANE WITHIN as IN + SANE = INSANE


And thus esoteric meanings are stupid. They're based upon linguistic trickery that takes no stock in actual etymology and instead relies on childish limping together of words within a language.

Anyone that has studied the English language beyond primary school should realize that taking "insane" as "in+sane" is really, really stupid.



just like disclosure means DISC + LO + SURE= I am sure a disc is flying low!


...are you being serious? Please tell me you're not.



Just like scientology, masonry, the "illuminated ones" and luciferianism?


..no, those three are all positive beliefs. Atheism is a rejection of theistic beliefs. It is simply a lack of belief in any deity.



I think they are also subcultures and they too think they can disobey the lord because they are special.


...atheists don't think they can disobey 'the lord' because they don't believe in 'the lord' anymore than they believe in Marduk or Anubis.



It must be "cool" to go against "the norm" heh?


Not particularly. Atheism is actually met in many places with prejudice



Maybe you mean well but at the very least you come across as ignorant/naive. Why do you think there is such a thing as secret societies and why have they infiltrated science, government, religion, economics, etc????


...um...that conspiracy belongs in another forum.




I don't expect answers from you anytime soon. Your homework is to THINK!


I think you, as the assumed teacher, would stand to learn from the homework you assign.


 


Got, I seem to be doing quite well inebriated on this forum yet again!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
.so far, there is no evidence of a deity that has been uncovered by scientists...however, should something be uncovered one day, it no doubt will be an exciting and fascinating discovery day.


Your basically making a mockery out of the new testament and christ, despite the fact people had both a written and spoken language and could record what they saw with there own two eyes. Christ must have died in vain according to the athiest point of view...how sad!

I could argue about the validity of the old testament but that is beside the point.


Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by fallow the light
it seems like every 50 or so years what we know about physics changes because we find something new. so who knows what the next 50 years will bring us.

Yes...that is the nature of science...continously challenge itself to gain a deeper understanding..continously update the model, remove the things falsified and add in new theories backed by evidence. Once science stops changing, it stops being science.


He was being sarcastic, just like I am being sarcastic with you! DUH!!!!

The point is science is a necessary endeavor in our back-ass-words society BUT some people DO NOT WANT PROGRESS for the general public. Can you guess WHO THEY ARE?! It has ZILT to do with religion. Let religion off the hook for a change AND BE OBJECTIVE!

edit on 7-12-2010 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Wow it looks as though you nailed yourself against the wall and don't even realise it....


Nope, Saturn definitely didn't.


Yes he did and your crucifying YOURSELF as well



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

"WE USE OUR PERSONAL INTELLIGENCE to control and form these understandings"(SIC).....blah...blah!

Where does *intellligence* come from?


Meat. Brain meat to be more specific.


1)And where does "brain meat" come from? 2)In case you name x,y,z chemical compounds...where do those chemical compounds come from? Everything must have an origin,correct?...a point of singularity if you will!



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What are ghosts?


Well, the evidence would point to them being nothing more than hallucinations based upon cultural constructs.


Wrong! True scientific evidence would point to residual energy/matter that is not easy to examine with conventional equipment, much less with biased scientists that think EVERYTHING IS A FIGMENT OF THEIR IMAGINATION..."hallucinations"

Of course that "residual energy" is not just any old energy. Its special "energy"!


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What is a soul?


A fictionalized account of consciousness.


Consciousness is not fiction any more than ufos are fiction. It is time to discount such misconceptions once and for all!



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What role does the pre-fix *PYSCH* play in the term *psychology*?


It's used as a latin derivation of the idea of 'mind', making 'psychology' the 'study of the mind'


Wrong again! PSYCH is derived from the greek word psihi(spelled differently in greek) meaning SOUL

.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Anyone that has studied the English language beyond primary school should realize that taking "insane" as "in+sane" is really, really stupid.[.quote]

Just like someone who cannot understand what A SINGULARITY means must be really, really stupid!



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
just like disclosure means DISC + LO + SURE= I am sure a disc is flying low!


...are you being serious? Please tell me you're not.


Yes I am being serious. Perhaps its too deep of a concept for a shallow thinker such as yourself to possibly comprehend. No worries. It would be CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT for me to continue?



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Just like scientology, masonry, the "illuminated ones" and luciferianism?


..no, those three are all positive beliefs. Atheism is a rejection of theistic beliefs. It is simply a lack of belief in any deity.


Wow believing in the devil is "positive"...who would have thought something like that, other than "an atheist" only in name.




Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
It must be "cool" to go against "the norm" heh?


Not particularly. Atheism is actually met in many places with prejudice


And for good reason I might add.....Someone who either a)can't put 2 and 2 together to get 4 OR b)is really a satanist disguised as "an atheist" deserves NO RESPECT what-so-ever. NONE...NADA!





Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Maybe you mean well but at the very least you come across as ignorant/naive. Why do you think there is such a thing as secret societies and why have they infiltrated science, government, religion, economics, etc????


...um...that conspiracy belongs in another forum.


No, it belongs in THIS FORUMN because it has to do with conspiracies in religion.....



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

I don't expect answers from you anytime soon. Your homework is to THINK!


I think you, as the assumed teacher, would stand to learn from the homework you assign.


You for one failed!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by SaturnFX
1) absolutely false. there is not a single instance of any understanding coming to existance through intelligence
2) science is used to determine the unknown...many unknowns are being known via this process
3) every single understanding we have today, from the computer your using, to the food you eat, to the very shape of your body, is all examples of things "coming into existance" without intelligence as some sort of creation force. We use our personal intelligence to control and form these understandings to exploit for our own needs, but electricity is not intelligent. sand is not intelligent, gravity is not intelligent, etc.


Wow it looks as though you nailed yourself against the wall and don't even realise it....

Wouldn't be suprised...lets see what you got...



"WE USE OUR PERSONAL INTELLIGENCE to control and form these understandings"(SIC).....blah...blah!

Where does *intellligence* come from?

The chemical process or the creative?
Of course as answered already, the meat bit houses information..bit like a harddrive.
What is intelligence beyond the physical connections...hmm..well, one can argue that there isn't alot of intelligence to begin with..just fancy new ways of doing basic things..we tend to mix and match influences and data...cross referencing things for new results. Sometimes a person has better recollection skills and that is attributed to higher intelligence. Some people like NASCAR, which is a clear signal for inferior intelligence


You need to clarify more.


What are ghosts?

Culturally, it has been labelled some sort of energy left over by the dead.
What is a actual ghost? don't know...no proof, and by its very concept, it is currently unmeasurable. I would venture to say that until some hard evidence comes in and tools arise that can measure it..we can safely say it is a good antagonist for horror movies...other than that..I don't know, and any guess would be simply me reciting my fantasys


What is a soul? Please don't tell me your one of those people that thinks people are SOULless.

Soul is both a catagory of food, and a type of music.
Anything beyond that is simple philosophical speculation


What is psychic power and how does it manifest itself?
There is no evidence of psychic powers. would be cool to shoot fireballs by thoughts though...but to date, not a single shred of evidence has been made public


Better yet what are its origins? What role does the pre-fix *PYSCH* play in the term *psychology*?
I will answer you that once you tell me what role the prefix "CAR" plays in the word "carrot?



Originally posted by SaturnFX
insanity, as pointed out, does not mean that...you can claim insanity means peeling potato's...but you stating it means that does not make it suddenly mean that.


Actually the esoteric meaning of insanity is TO BE SANE WITHIN as IN + SANE = INSANE

just like disclosure means DISC + LO + SURE= I am sure a disc is flying low!
Estoric meanings are fun to play with, but ultimately meaningless. I can give you hundreds of words that estorically is nonsense (see the carrot example).



Originally posted by SaturnFX
Athiesm is a subculture or counterculture at the moment due to a superstitious world,


Just like scientology, masonry, the "illuminated ones" and luciferianism? I think they are also subcultures and they too think they can disobey the lord because they are special. It must be "cool" to go against "the norm" heh?
I bet you eat shellfish...you know god HATES shellfish...its in the bible...by eating it, you are a sinner and are going to hell according to your religion.
jesus, according to your religion, only removed the blood sacrifices..the rest are still in play, to include the dietary demands. I am glad the lord you choose is not my master..I sort of like eating crabs, pork, and shrimp.

And I am cool...not because I am athiest, but because I got a sweet leather jacket.

You know what a subculture is also...technically, peeing standing up. there are more females on earth than males, therefore your standing is against statistical norms...welcome to the cool sub culture of man.



Originally posted by SaturnFX
You can stick to clearly and irrifutably incorrect use of the word "insanity". you can even contact websters and beg them to change it to what you want it to mean...but your desire for a word to mean something means absolutely nothing overall...the definition of the word cares not for your desires of it meaning something its not...definitions...cold and unmoving things they are.


Maybe you mean well but at the very least you come across as ignorant/naive. Why do you think there is such a thing as secret societies and why have they infiltrated science, government, religion, economics, etc????

I don't expect answers from you anytime soon. Your homework is to THINK!

homework done:
there are secret societys because people love power and funny hats. that has little to do with this topic though. this is about creationism being insane or willfully ignorant. It also has clearly divided off into a general athiest V theist rumble.

hmm..still not feeling nailed...I must have missed something.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


1. The brain develops based on instructions encoded in DNA. It receives the necessary materials to construct the brain through the food the mother intakes, thus why the mother must eat more when they are pregnant.

2. Ghosts and psi in general have never been proven to exist using the scientific method. Every study that claims such things has had major methodological problems or the author of the study has outright forged their data. Even a close examination of the recent study from Cornell claiming to prove the existence of psi shows serious methodological problems.

3. Madness is not saying that consciousness is fictional, he is saying that consciousness arising from the soul is fictional. Since at least the early 20th century no psychological study has been produced that suggests anything other than consciousness arising from the brain. In fact this caused William James to suffer from great psychological distress because he was a very devout Christian, but all of his studies showed consciousness being an emergent property of the brain.

4. While psychology is derived from the terms psyche (breath, spirit, soul) + logia (study of, research) one must remember the times that it was first used. It's first use (although not in the same context) was around 1500. This was a time when the Church ruled the world and it was common to believe consciousness was the voice of the soul. The first time it was used in a similar context as it is today was in 1693. This was 43 years after the death of Descartes who managed to make dualism even more popular. Thus, at the time it was a common to believe that consciousness came from the soul and not the body.

5. I'm not sure what you're doing here with the words. It seems like a perverted form of gematria or a sophomoric attempt at Fulcanelli's version of Kabbalah.

6. Here you are either twisting his words or are actually that ignorant. Here his use of the word positive means believing in a higher power. On the other hand atheism is a negative belief, meaning that it is the lack of belief in a higher power.

7. For all your talk of the teachings of Christ you certainly don't follow them. You condemn atheists while seemingly forgetting such adages as "Love they neighbor," and "Let him without sin cast the first stone."

8. As for these so-called secret societies having infiltrated the government etc. There are an estimated 2 million Freemasons in the United States. This is almost 1% of the entire country. There are bound to be more than a few in positions of power, especially since the people who have the time to take part in Masonry tend to be at least Middle Class, thus have had the opportunity to go to college and receive the higher education required for these positions.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
What are ghosts?


Well, the evidence would point to them being nothing more than hallucinations based upon cultural constructs.

Wrong! True scientific evidence would point to residual energy/matter that is not easy to examine with conventional equipment, much less with biased scientists that think EVERYTHING IS A FIGMENT OF THEIR IMAGINATION..."hallucinations"

Of course that "residual energy" is not just any old energy. Its special "energy"!
Peer reviewed source please. thanks



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What is a soul?


A fictionalized account of consciousness.


Consciousness is not fiction any more than ufos are fiction. It is time to discount such misconceptions once and for all!

the concept of a soul is basically a invisible clone or some such that is unmeasurable. it serves no actual purpose..do ants have a soul? do they have ant jesus saving them? do viruses have a soul?

Now...a UFO is simply a unidentified thing in the air...this is not some sort of spiritual vision..its a material object doing something we know how to do and can demonstrate at any airport on earth (making matter fly).
The speculation for some of this is that there are extraterrestrials flying some ET crafts. There is no proof of this, however, even that concept is not illogical. I won't get into the argument here about that...I assume you know why it makes general sense...if not, then pick one of the many threads over in aliens and ufo's on this board and get to reading..or send me a U2U and I can discuss it with you.


Just like scientology, masonry, the "illuminated ones" and luciferianism?


..no, those three are all positive beliefs. Atheism is a rejection of theistic beliefs. It is simply a lack of belief in any deity.

Wow believing in the devil is "positive"...who would have thought something like that, other than "an atheist" only in name.

I suspect your being sarcastic here. positive meaning true, negative meaning false.
yes/no
binary.
he is saying they are trying to "sell" something..and religions are...they have something they are trying to add to your belief system..a deity or some such thing.
a negative position means there is nothing being added..there is no deity, etc..not selling anything..




Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
It must be "cool" to go against "the norm" heh?


Not particularly. Atheism is actually met in many places with prejudice


And for good reason I might add.....Someone who either a)can't put 2 and 2 together to get 4 OR b)is really a satanist disguised as "an atheist" deserves NO RESPECT what-so-ever. NONE...NADA!

Ahh, there is that love that only a person with a religion can muster up. nothing like self rightous judgement on fellow human beings. lol

ya...you better hope there is no biblical religion..else your going to be rather upset where your ending up.

(cool, two can play the fear game).

incidently, I do not forgive you for judging me...you have clearly made yourself a God...therefore your deity will judge you accordingly for posing as it.

see you in the south
muahahahahaa
quick, make up an excuse as to either how you didn't judge, or how you got a pass to.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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Saturn it is my educated opinion that Yes, proponents of creationismIntelligent design are, in fact, Insane. More over they are usually willfully so. I am currently reading a book titled The Greatest Show on Earth which I suggest everyone who would like to understand or ease into the subject of Evolution.

Now I prefer to give sound reasoning to my opinions, Therefore:

Many Proponents of creationism like to say that evolution is just a "theory". While this is a true use of the word "theory". There is a difference in the GENERAL definition and the SCIENTIFIC definition.

The Oxford English Dictionary for Free online.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary this it the Definition of Theory:


theory(the·o·ry) Pronunciation:/ˈTHēərē, ˈTHi(ə)rē, ˈθɪri/ noun (plural theories)
1) a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained
arwin's theory of evolution

2) a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based:a theory of education music theory

3) an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action:
my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged

4) Mathematics a collection of propositions to illustrate the principles of a subject.



Creationist usually are using the definition 3 when they make the statement that Evolution is just a "Theory".

The Scientific Community uses definition 1. Arguments could be made that definition 4 is also applicable.
This discrepancy alone makes any rational, educated, and logical discussion almost impossible.

Moving past that however, the next usual argument is that we can not see any "proof" that evolution occurs.
This is simply untrue.
Examples of Micro Evolution occur in abundance. If you have ever heard of any form of drug resistant bacterias or viruses this is a perfect example. More examples exist, one just has to search for them.

Now its time for another Definition. YAY!
Natural Selection:

noun
Biology
* the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring. The theory of its action was first fully expounded by Charles Darwin and is now believed to be the main process that brings about evolution. Compare with survival of the fittest (see survival)
Source

To understand this better lets look at UNNATURAL Selection, more specifically, Artificial Selection. This means that Selection of traits has been MANIPULATED to get the desired outcome. To find an example of this one simply has to look at a common household pet. That's right! Mans best friend!


Through the process of domestication and selective breeding, Man, has been able to create breads of dogs to look and act how they would like. And all of these breeds of dogs have One major thing in common. They are all decendents of Canis Lupus more commonly known as the Grey Wolf.


Man selected characteristics that they wanted and bred (through out several centuries) species of dogs that contained those chosen characteristics.
This is an easy example of Artificial Selection.
Another is Flowers. Botany has a long history of growing and breeding flowers for certain characteristics.

Now you may ask what does Charles Darwin's Natural Selection have to do with Artificial Selection?
Simply put Nature is doing the manipulating. (though one has to note it's not through a conscious effort).
It manipulates through things like Environment, Food, Predators, and hundreds of other systems.
Expanded info on Natural Selection

With this in mind how can one claim that Natural Selection does not exist?
Darwin did not make a theory of Evolution per se. He simply stated that Nature, through some series of selective processes, plays a role in how Genetic Traits are passed along.
Others after him took his work, expounded upon it through SCIENTIFIC processes, and the amalgamation of those works is referred to as the Theory of Evolution.

What Sciences went into this amalgamation?
Chemistry, Biology, Geology, Physiology, Paleontology, Archaeology, Medicine, and Physics. I'm sure there are more ologies, I just don't know all of them.
To state that the Theory of Evolution is wrong, is to fundamentally state that these Sciences are wrong too.

These are all things that SUPPORT evolution. My examples are very simple, and do not begin to scratch the surface of all the materials written on the subject. Admittedly my arguments for Evolution are also crude compared to the research and time that have gone into the full subject. I challenge you to learn more.

So far there is only one book written, when taken literally, offers no proof, but suggests other wise.
That is the Old Testament.

Now here is when the Insanity really comes into play. I have no problem with people believing whatever belief system they want, or teaching it to there kids. Whether that belief system be Christianity, Satanism, Muslim, Judaism, Buddhism, Leprechaunism, or Eggplant.

What I do have a problem with is Teachers teaching it in a Classroom.Why? Well the Idea is simple.
You don't teach Math in Physical Education (PE), or during English Class.
Why then would you teach THEOLOGY during a SCIENCE CLASS!!?! The idea of creationism being taught INSTEAD of SCIENCES theories being taught in a SCIENCE class is ridiculous, and, to me, INSANE!

If you want your children to have another view point YOU teach it to them. DO NOT make a public or private education system teach something that is not part of that subject matter that they are licensed to teach. In English they teach ENGLISH. Math class you learn MATH. The same goes for Sciences. If you would like to see Theology taught in schools petition your schools council to add a theology class, offer to pay for it out of your pocket, if they say they can't afford it, but DO NOT mix subjects.

Now for you hardcore believers. There is no reason why God and evolution cannot exist in the same belief structure, except for your unwillingness to STOP, and not take the Book you love at such literal value. There is no reason why God, who is all powerful and all knowing couldn't have set EVOLUTION into motion. To say otherwise is to say that your god isn't omnipresent, omniscient and all powerful. Which contradicts your argument.

Do not go on blind faith alone, think out your beliefs using all information given. DENY IGNORANCE.






edit on 7-12-2010 by TruthAboveIgnorance because: Added nifty pictures!

edit on 7-12-2010 by TruthAboveIgnorance because: added wiki link to Natural Selection

edit on 7-12-2010 by TruthAboveIgnorance because: Fixed inccorect word usage, and capitalized book



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by TruthAboveIgnorance
 


Nice post.

Ultimately, it seems this thread shows the difference between right and left brained individual.

A athiest tries to give examples of discoverys, rational thinking, and fact.
The counter is emotional examples, attempts at fear, and general name calling.

I think its sort of sad really that humanity so far favors illogical rantings and emotion over facts and proof..but, I guess slowly we are crawling towards reason.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


True, I have yet to see someone substantiate Creationism claims with anything other than misdirection, straw man arguments,Ad Hominem , or name calling.
They provide no reference, quote, or data for the information they have or show the thought process used to arrive at said conclusion. It shows a general lack of cohesive argument on their part.
Which is why I believe they are either insane, willfully ignorant, or delusional.
Proponents SEEM simply lack the will to internalize anything other then their preconceived ideals.
Which to me is strikingly shallow on their part.
I'm fidgety with anticipation at their poorly constructed arguments. (add sarcasm now for those not good with context clues)
edit on 7-12-2010 by TruthAboveIgnorance because: word content

edit on 7-12-2010 by TruthAboveIgnorance because: Wording



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


We'll keep this light and uncomplicated. Our brain, like the rest of our anatomy, is made up of two halves, a left brain a right brain. There's a big fold that goes from front to back in our brain, essentially dividing it into two distinct and separate parts. Well, almost separate. They are connected to each other by a thick cable of nerves at the base of each brain. This sole link between the two giant processors is called the corpus collosum. Think of it as an Ethernet cable or network connection between two incredibly fast and immensely powerful computer processors, each running different programs from the same input.


The left side of our body is "wired" to the right side of our brain, and vice versa. For whatever reason nature did this cross-over, it applies even to our eyes, which process a majority of their sensory data on opposite sides of the brain.

We can thank Nobel Prize Winner (1981) Roger Sperry for this next contribution. Sperry conducted what are sometimes called the "split-brain" experiments. Here's how it went: A patient suffering from uncontrolled seizures had an area of his brain removed by surgery in an attempt to control his illness. This area just happened to be the corpus collosum, which was suspected of having developed lesions (short circuits).

Following his surgery, Sperry's patient seemed completely normal -- almost. A series of tests were conducted where each "half" of the patient was isolated from the other. Different visual and tactile information could then be presented to the patient's left or right side, without the other side knowing. The results were astounding.

With their communications link severed, each side of the patient's brain was functioning independently. Although this did not prevent his ability to walk, talk and eat, some unexpected findings were encountered in some of the higher brain functions when each side was examined independently of the other.

The right hand and eye could name an object, such as a pencil, but the patient could not explain what it was used for. When shown to the left hand and eye, the patient could explain and demonstrate its use, but could not name it. Further studies showed that various functions of thought are physically separated and localized to a specific area on either the left or right side of the human brain. This functional map is consistent for an estimated 70 to 95 percent of us.


The main theme to emerge... is that there appear to be two modes of thinking, verbal and nonverbal, represented rather separately in left and right hemispheres respectively and that our education system, as well as science in general, tends to neglect the nonverbal form of intellect. What it comes down to is that modern society discriminates against the right hemisphere.

-Roger Sperry (1973)


they have to work together... so no discrimination please


viewzone2.com...



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by 1FutureMarine1
 





Then he took this idea and said "hmm if this lizard can change color based on his environment, why can't he sprout wings and fly".


I've seen lots of Creationists quote mine but it truly is rare to see them just make stuff up. Darwin never said that and the theory of evolution doesn't support the idea of a lizard sprouting wings. Not only is this a straw man but its an argument from incredulity.

So God creating life magically is plausible but natural processes can't? Magic is somehow now a better answer than an idea supported by evidence AND possible without magic (abiogenesis). I'm not sure what kind of Creationist you are but you do mention the Bible... you might want to read the first chapter because it has a talking snake in it, I wonder if the snake just repeated its name over and over again... NAH, this ain't pokemon





I bet you also think the bible says the planet is 6000 years old to.


Actually no.

I used to be a Fundamentalist Christian and a Creationist until I actually sat down and the read the Bible. You're absolutely right, the Bible never puts a definitive age on the Earth, but that doesn't stop Creationists from lying to people. By the way reading the Bible was step number one to becoming an atheist, that book makes no sense whatsoever.


reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


I know that several other people have already replied to this but it was too good to pass up.



What are ghosts?


Fictional beings that we attribute anything we consider weird or generally unexplained. Hearing a weird voice, seeing a shadow, must be ghosts. We then believe that they are the spirits of the dead, some life force left over that has failed to pass into the afterlife (or perhaps being a ghost is the afterlife). There are several other definitions many of which have specific cultural contexts.



What is a soul?


No such thing, at least not the in the supernatural sense. Again its another meaningless word as you could get a dozen different definitions effected by personal belief and cultural context.



What is psychic power and how does it manifest itself?


Psychic powers, like ghosts and souls, have never been demonstrated to exist. They are indistinguishable from the imaginary. However if you do think you can prove they exist you can get yourself a 1 Million dollar prize from the James Randi Foundation. All you need to is contact James Randi and demonstrate a psychic or supernatural ability under test conditions and you get 1 Million Dollars. Needless to say no one has collected the money even though he's been offering it since the Mid-90s.



they can disobey the lord because they are special




Way to go all Old Testament all of a sudden. How exactly is applying skepticism logic and reason to the question of the existence of god(s) disobeying? Atheism is not about rebelling against god(s), if it were all atheists would be theists. Its impossible to disobey something that appears imaginary and hasn't set down any rules.



Why do you think there is such a thing as secret societies and why have they infiltrated science, government, religion, economics, etc????


I'm curious as to what secret societies have to do with Evolution and Creationism or even god(s) in general. I'm also curious how you can pretend to know things about secret societies and what they do. They're SECRET remember, so you don't actually know what they do, you can speculate all you want though.




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