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Should "Creationism" be considered a sign of insanity?

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism
 





Kids believe in Santa, that doesn't make them insane, that makes them innocent.


We are not talking about kids. Adults with mental capacity of a child are indeed classified as having a mental condition.




If Christians want to believe Evolution is false, and that the Earth is so on and so forth years old, then let them. Choice comes first.


I agree.


Except of course when they argue to have their belief taught to you in a school, preached to you by government officals, stamped on your currency, forced in your pledge, sit untaxed with great buildings in town centers while everyone else pays taxes, used as excuses to murder and war with nations, harass you in your home, place of work, and out in public, use their belief to determine laws of the land, use their belief to hold back certain sciences, etc.

religion is a dangerous delusion for civilization that must be shrugged off...if someone wants to sit in their home and think the world revolves around their naval, thats fine and fully up to them...the second they come out and want special treatment for that or power...thats when it must be stopped.




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by fallow the light
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


i am so tired of these threads.

and yet here you are anyhow..guess you can't be that tired of it


why do people waist life on trying to prove people wrong and or ignorant?

its called progressing society...challenge beliefs, learn and understand, and enlighten others
deny ignorance.


it seems that threads like these are more about the the people than the beliefs. iv said it before and ill say it again.... why do you care what others believe?

see my previous post for a short list of why we should care what people believe. Why should I care if a bullet goes wizzing by my head because of an irrational belief...hmm..

if science says that quantum theory (and i mean the real bizarre stuff like parallel universes and many others) is possible then any thing is possible. it seems impossible for the universe to be here in the first place but it is.

irrelevant to the topic, but incidently, I find the QP subject to be fascinating



so if the simple fact that "we are here" is so called real, then why cant a God/gods/creator be real? oh that is right, because human scientists say that they are not.......

Scientists say no such thing...science does not weigh in on Gods. they are simply attempting to understand the universe..and doing a pretty good job so far. Athiests..hard athiests that treat athiesm as some sort of religion will state there are no gods or creators.

so far, there is no evidence of a deity that has been uncovered by scientists...however, should something be uncovered one day, it no doubt will be an exciting and fascinating discovery day.



it seems like every 50 or so years what we know about physics changes because we find something new. so who knows what the next 50 years will bring us.

Yes...that is the nature of science...continously challenge itself to gain a deeper understanding..continously update the model, remove the things falsified and add in new theories backed by evidence. Once science stops changing, it stops being science.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Maslo
 


We have adults who believe in Aliens.

I don't know why you are trying to argue here.

At least we agree that Christians should be allowed to believe what they want to without having to be called insane.



Belief in aliens is not in conflict with our current understanding of science. And there is a difference between a belief in aliens (I believe they exist), and being certain that aliens exist without supporting evidence (I dont know if aliens exist, it is just my belief that can be wrong).

As for christians and other religious people, they should be allowed to believe what they want, and non-believers should also be allowed to call them insane.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

your arguing against something without even knowing what it is? -facepalm-
google is your friend..but let me help you:

1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


I smell a brain which hasn't been used for a while.
Science is knowledge. Knowledge of what? Knowledge of this Universe. Since this Universe was created, then Science explains creation "DUUUH".



You posted absolutely nothing supporting a creator. I look forward for such a post...indeed the world looks forward to such supporting evidence...your going to make bloody history mate...well done...lets see it.
to think...all these years, all these eons...and some guy on the internet has supporting evidence. absolutely breathtaking. quick, someone call CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC, and everyone else...there is finally evidence of a creator...some guy on the internet has it and will reveal it soon I imagine..meanwhile, lets move on

I did. By the way, there is evidence of GOD all around you, that is why you are the very, very small minority




bad example. techtonic plates create some mountains. the plates move based on a number of factors, including but not limited to, gravitational forces of the moon, sun, etc. magma pooling and pressure zones, etc. there is a massive series of understanding about this...its what is called science. Science is not some focused instance, it is a broad field of observation to see how things are connecting. None of which involve a creator.

Yup, everything is connected to the laws, Mountains wouldn't have formed without Universal laws, just like Galaxies, just like planets, just like evolutions blablablablabla.. All connected to Universal LAWS and Universal LAWS are connected to a created as evidence suggests.



actually...there is no example you can possibly give that would show that science is somehow narrow considering science is simply attempting to map and understand things...by its very definition, it is not allowed to be narrow.
you seem to not understand what the use of science is for.

Science is understanding of the Universe, the Universe was created as evidence suggests.



universal laws...also known as physics...moving on

I never thought I would ever meet an Atheist who would end up playing word games due to his incapability to debate




1) absolutely false. there is not a single instance of any understanding coming to existance through intelligence
2) science is used to determine the unknown...many unknowns are being known via this process
3) every single understanding we have today, from the computer your using, to the food you eat, to the very shape of your body, is all examples of things "coming into existance" without intelligence as some sort of creation force. We use our personal intelligence to control and form these understandings to exploit for our own needs, but electricity is not intelligent. sand is not intelligent, gravity is not intelligent, etc.


I will repeat until it sinks in.
1. We have thousands of instances of laws which came to existence through intelligence. (By the way, Humans equate to intelligence lol)
2. We have many instances of laws which came to existence through unknown origin. (Gravity.. etc.)
3. We have ZERO instances of laws which came to existence without intelligence.

I'm starting to think that you are intentionally trying to confuse yourself, to avoid reality, showing signs of delusion there.



funny...math is actually a science



Yes, and an apple is a Fruit, but it is also Food. WOW, that is just amazing.





You can stick to clearly and irrifutably incorrect use of the word "insanity". you can even contact websters and beg them to change it to what you want it to mean...but your desire for a word to mean something means absolutely nothing overall...the definition of the word cares not for your desires of it meaning something its not...definitions...cold and unmoving things they are.

FAIL!!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Well I proved my point lol..

Now you are calling yourself insane.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 




Since this Universe was created, then Science explains creation


Was this Universe created? Care to provide any evidence of that? I mean it could be argued that the Universe came into existence, but existing and being created aren't the same thing, at least not in the sense you are using them.



By the way, there is evidence of GOD all around you


Where exactly? The cosmos, the Universe, this planet, life itself? You know what the existence of all that stuff proves - it proves that that stuff exists, it doesn't prove that that stuff was summoned into existence via supernatural means.



Yup, everything is connected to the laws


The Natural Law argument has been dead in the water for more than a century AND I've been over it with you about three dozen times in other threads. Yet here I find a repeat offender of the same fallacious argument yet again. You are aware that they are called laws because WE NAMED THEM LAWS and for no other reason. These laws do not tell nature how to behave they are merely our observations of how nature does behave. Natural Laws are laws in name only, to suggest they were set in place by some God is a claim that requires evidence.



I never thought I would ever meet an Atheist who would end up playing word games


You said the same thing to me a few weeks ago. Let's face it, you're NOT surprised, you know this would happen because you know your arguments are fallacious.

This will be the only time I address you within this thread. If you want to discuss this further send me a U2U.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:24 AM
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I think that wanting to believe in something that is beyond reason and science, is like a dog chasing its own ass. Watch the new Sean Bean movie Black Death and you know what I'm talking about.
For me religion is just a "tradition" and ethical lessons in story format. You should show every Creationist a picture of the universe and ask if he/she still thinks the way she does, or just shake his/her head and pretend not to hear.
edit on 7-12-2010 by Jonas86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:25 AM
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This will be the only time I address you within this thread.

I wish I would have thought of that sentence once I realized what type of person I was dealing with long ago.

Oh well. let this ending bit of the thread live in its glory to show what a clear demonstration of ignorance and flat out lying looks like on the internet.

I am taking your advice also...I think this kid had enough special time.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:41 AM
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How to control the world:

1. Mind-control the children by mass repeating religious text, and mixing it up with sexual abuse.
2. Harass them with preachings about sin and hell.
3. Expel anyone who disagrees.
3b. Kill them if you can get away with it.

They cannot run from you.
If they leave one group, they are simply picked up and further abused by another group.

The videoclips on TV are tainted with fear-reinforcing imagery of 666, the devil, hell or sacrifice.
Other imagery of jesus/rebirth/whatever is used to remind people of their "faith".

Then, when all the people are successfully mind-controlled, you can launch a hate campaign against another religion.
If you are successful, they will all kill each other, and you will earn millions of dollars.

The best thing is that often the mind-controlled sheeple wil host their own hate campaigns. The only thing you have to do is say that the messiah approves of the slaughter and you are good to go.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:42 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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This thread is ridiculous! Presumably, if you think the idea that life was created, is insane, you believe life has always existed. They are the only two alternatives. So which is more insane?

Life was created

OR

Life has always existed



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by whatevername
How to control the world:

1. Mind-control the children by mass repeating religious text, and mixing it up with sexual abuse.
2. Harass them with preachings about sin and hell.
3. Expel anyone who disagrees.
3b. Kill them if you can get away with it.

They cannot run from you.
If they leave one group, they are simply picked up and further abused by another group.

The videoclips on TV are tainted with fear-reinforcing imagery of 666, the devil, hell or sacrifice.
Other imagery of jesus/rebirth/whatever is used to remind people of their "faith".

Then, when all the people are successfully mind-controlled, you can launch a hate campaign against another religion.
If you are successful, they will all kill each other, and you will earn millions of dollars.

The best thing is that often the mind-controlled sheeple wil host their own hate campaigns. The only thing you have to do is say that the messiah approves of the slaughter and you are good to go.


Pretty cynical outlook...not saying its wrong mind you, just...would like to think that reason can shine through somewhere in there.
Religion has traditionally been the tool of the ruling class to enforce the will onto the people, with suggestions that dying for cause X is divinely ordered...god is on our side, etc...
It would make sense for such a powerful time honored tool to upgrade into modern era.
we gain gadgets, but ultimately, we are still the same knuckle dragging people we have always been.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by -mytym-
This thread is ridiculous! Presumably, if you think the idea that life was created, is insane, you believe life has always existed. They are the only two alternatives. So which is more insane?

Life was created

OR

Life has always existed



Here ya go mate


and now you know.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:03 AM
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In the United States, atheism is considered equivalent to religion under the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause. In August 2005 the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit affirmed previous Supreme Court precedent[10] by ruling atheism was equivalent to a religion for 1st amendment purposes.[11][12] The plaintiff in the case was a prison inmate who was blocked by prison officials from creating an inmate group to study and discuss atheism. The court ruled this violated the inmate's rights under the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:34 AM
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Oozy's trollish antics are back!

reply to post by oozyism
 


This has nothing to do with the thread. Atheism is treated as a religion legally to ensure rights. It is a position on religion, the position being "no"

It is as much a religion as bald is a hair color and not collecting stamps is a hobby.

reply to post by oozyism
 


Troll!

reply to post by -mytym-
 



Originally posted by -mytym-
This thread is ridiculous! Presumably, if you think the idea that life was created, is insane, you believe life has always existed. They are the only two alternatives. So which is more insane?


Logical fallacies: False dilemma and straw man.

There's the possibility that life was created by a supernatural being, but there is another alternative which isn't that life always existed. The other alternative is that life arose naturally.



Life was created


No evidence for this one



OR

Life has always existed


OR

Life arose naturally.

reply to post by oozyism
 



Originally posted by oozyism
I smell a brain which hasn't been used for a while.
Science is knowledge.


No, science is a method for achieving knowledge.



Knowledge of what? Knowledge of this Universe. Since this Universe was created, then Science explains creation "DUUUH".


Hey, you keep parroting that thing that MrXYZ and I showed that you didn't prove.

There is zero evidence that the universe was created.



I did. By the way, there is evidence of GOD all around you,


No, there isn't. You've yet to provide evidence of a deity or creationism. Ever. You've tried repeatedly and failed.



that is why you are the very, very small minority



...yes, we're a minority as 240+ million declared atheists and 1.1 billion 'nonreligious' individuals.
1/6th of the world. Very, very small.



Yup, everything is connected to the laws, Mountains wouldn't have formed without Universal laws, just like Galaxies, just like planets, just like evolutions blablablablabla.. All connected to Universal LAWS and Universal LAWS are connected to a created as evidence suggests.


...no, evidence suggests that there are natural laws. There's no evidence that these laws were created.
Natural laws are a description of how the universe works.

Again, why are you repeating this point that we've knocked down repeatedly?

We don't even know if natural laws could exist in any other way than they do in our universe.



Science is understanding of the Universe,


No, science is a method for understanding the universe. One that works.



the Universe was created as evidence suggests.


Nope, no evidence suggests that. If you have any, I'd suggest you try presenting it here, where that is the topic.




I never thought I would ever meet an Atheist who would end up playing word games due to his incapability to debate



And I never thought that you would keep repeating absolutely false points.



I will repeat until it sinks in.
1. We have thousands of instances of laws which came to existence through intelligence. (By the way, Humans equate to intelligence lol)


You keep making this same foundational mistake: Human laws are not equivalent to natural laws, you're playing a childish and idiotic semantics game.

I've pointed this out to you repeatedly, you keep ignoring it.



2. We have many instances of laws which came to existence through unknown origin. (Gravity.. etc.)


But the laws above and the laws in point 1 are entirely different things.



3. We have ZERO instances of laws which came to existence without intelligence.


Again, you keep confusing "natural law" and "legal code aka law".
The universe isn't run on a legal code, you are wrong.

And we do have instances of natural laws that came into existence without intelligence, all of them. There's ZERO evidence of natural law being put into effect by intelligence.
I'm starting to think that you are intentionally trying to confuse yourself, to avoid reality, showing signs of delusion there.



FAIL!!


What can be found in all of your posts on this subject.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Heya

Don't feed the trolls. heh

incidently, I wonder how many people get caught in the word "Laws" as thinking it is a legal thing written by some cosmis lawmakers.

they should change the word to "understandings" to not confuse the lesser minds...like...erm..someone on this thread that I won't mention (eyes up)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


What I gathered from this Thread -

The Earth is much older than 7000 years - proven, take this into account while reading the next section.

The OP is not trying to make you change your mind, all he is trying to do is state that teaching PROVEN FALLACIES should be illegal and those who still believe should be considered insane because they believe something that is knowingly false. For example, the videos of people saying that carbon dating is wrong - what they are saying is completely untrue. Insanity doesn't mean going agaisnt norms, to understand our point of view, you must first open a dictionary. Going agaisnt norms is AT BEST abnormal, like wearing shoes on your hands. But in 100 years, (FOR INSTANCE) if science continues going strong, and atheism (agnostic maybe) becomes the majority belief (non-belief) will it THEN make creationists insane? (from your stance) ..

I embrace science and all it has given us, without it, we wouldn't be on these computers debating, we wouldn't have cell phones, everyone would die from every disease. I've never seen god cure anyone - I've never seen god do anything as a matter of fact. Some guy told me that you see him in dreams, but I also see fairies and dragons, it doesn't make them real.

I think for some people it's good to believe in this god of yours, but I'd rather think that there is no salvation - brains won the race to the top this time - just like brute strength (dinosaurs) did before us, like just vertebrates did before them, and so forth ... we will come and go just like every other major extinction and a new set of beliefs will gather and this whole thing will happen again..

If the world blew up tomorrow, no survivers except a few children who have never learnt or done anything. All they find (cause everything else is destroyed) is a copy of the Amazing Spiderman (comic book) ... They grow up believing this dude will come rescue them one day, that he is there god - but one day another kid goes agaisnt the norms and says 'I think there is a god, but he isn't spiderman' ... by your logic, this kid in insane. I'm sorry but you make absolutely no sense.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by paxnatus
 


I know this might be slightly off topic, but it still. You believe that god cursed our entire species with death and suffering, and also forces us to adhere to scriptures that contradict our biological urges so that we can reach a heaven that he could have just created in the first place because one of his creations tempted one of our ancestors to eat from a tree? Who, by the way, had no knowledge of the consequences of their actions
edit on 7/12/2010 by Griffo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


If the US considers atheism to be a religion, does this mean that I can go over there, preach atheism and live tax-free?



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Jimmy910130
 
Jimmy910130,

Not all Christians believe the earth to be just 6,000 years old. It was here from all eternity, from the biginning ot it, eternity. He just made it to be a place for man to inhabit in our beginning. Who knows what He, God had done on the earth before our species. It is declared to be void and without form and dark when He started to make it for man. Verse 2 of Gen. 1:.

The day is not far away when all will see who has got this thing correctly deciphered and until then let's not be labeling anyone insane. Some are doing that and that is the insane.

Looks to me like man is coming closer and closer to annilhilating himself every year goes by. That alone spells doom. What should we call the ones leading to all the destruction? The Bible calls them destroyers.

Truthiron.



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