Tips on buying Gold or Silver?

I have bought from bulliondirect(dot)com before. Stick to one oz bars if you are worried about having to use it as currency eventually

So if one were to purchase gold or silver bars, could one then turn them into things? like jewely?

Can you even wear real gold or silver in say, a body piercing?

What would the most recommended form be, in everyone's opinion...I'm leaning towards silver coins..but how would the person youre trading with be able to tell it was real?

reply to post by mayabong


If you're "getting money soon" and you want to invest in something that will preserve the wealth you've acquired, then you should certainly invest in PHYSICAL gold and silver don't buy paper telling you that you have gold and silver, it's not the same thing. It's up to you how much, but I'd keep it at a third to two-thirds gold out of total investments. If you want returns start investing in agriculture and commodities. Stay away from the Monsanto's of the world, as their product will not be able to keep up in the future market.

Don't keep all of your eggs in one basket. All evidence points to an explosion in gold, silver, and food commodities for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep track of what is going on with your investment. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, and don't take any advice as gospel, not even mine.

Make sure you have your survival triangle set up first. (Water, food and protection) then get silver in 1 and 1/2 oz do this only as a wealth preservation tool. Get ready, I recommend 6 months of food and water. It will help soon.

Just for your excitement check out the vid


And for your need to know!

Thanks so much guys and girls, all your input has helped me so much.

Read about Argentina's collapse.

Gold and Silver traded at jewerly prices because most buyers had no way of verifying purity.

If you're buying for SHTF, buy jewerly gold because that is what you will get paid for it when you decide to sell.

Runaway inflation will not happen. Period. If it did mortgage owners would be quickly able to pay off their mortgages with inflated dollars. Big Finance will not let this happen nor will our government.

More than likely, deflation will continue for 7-10 years. Baby Boomers will Reverse Mortgage their homes at depressed prices, once this phase is complete and the Baby Boomers have no wealth or inheritance to pass on to their kids, housing will inflate again so the Reverse Mortgage companies can sell all of those houses they picked up on discount for a tidy profit.

Precious Metals is a fools game for the average investor. Doing so now proves you are 3 steps behind in the game.

This is the best analysis I have read. I have a friend who bought 200k of silver and keeps it in his house due to this fear.... I believe the poster

Originally posted by ArcAngel
This is the best analysis I have read. I have a friend who bought 200k of silver and keeps it in his house due to this fear.... I believe the poster

Thank you, ArcAngel.

I posted this article on a website I have: The Gold Fallacy

Having made and lost my fair share of money over the years, I compare what's going on with Gold now to the Tech Bubble and Real Estate. In both those cases, once everyone and their brother's little puppy where into it, it crashed. I do not doubt for a second that Gold will be the same way. None of us know when exactly the market will crash so, why try to scrape 20% on something nearing the top?

Personally, I believe in paying down debt first. Secured debt that is. If the Debtor can take what you bought (or something pledged as collateral) with that debt, that is Secured Debt. That is what needs to be paid no matter what.

Unsecured Debt (Credit Card Debt) you can walk away from and take a beating on your credit score, but normally you don't lose what you purchased because they rarely take anyone to court anymore.

The biggest Scam out there is "Get out of Debt!" commercials.

What they are looking for is Homeowners with $10,000+ credit card debt. These companies role Unsecured credit debt (credit card debt) into secured debt (your mortgage) to reduce your monthly debt payments. Now they have you by the b*lls. If you can't keep up with payments now, you lose your home. If you do keep up with payments, the credit card debt that maybe you could have paid off in 5-7 years, you will now be paying on for 20-30 years. Checkmate.

So how do we survive?

If you approach your finances like a survivlaist, the choices are easy. Default on all unsecured debt and pay extra on all secured debt. Sounds scary to most, but in ten years you will be in a strong financial position and the defaults will have fallen off your credit.

One can also set some money aside in a trading account and wait for a big dip. I recommend Ameritrade and spit on Etrade! (ETrade has large exposure to mortgage backed securities)

I pick quality, diversified companies and their subsidiaries that (unless the world ends) will be around. I am currently just sitting in a liquid position waiting for that notorious crash. Patience and detachment is key. That money could just sit there for a year, two years - whatever. Sure I could pull in 10-20% possibly in the meantime, but then I will hold positions which may lose an errode my capital. The Dip will come, history has proven it always does.

Last dip, I was in a liquid position for 2 years. I picked up Genworth Financial (GNW) for $1.50 a share, and sold about 1 1/2 years later for $16 a share. (Basically 1000% return in 3 1/2 years total) I picked GNW because it was a spinnoff of General Electric and into Reverse Mortagages. GE has strong ties with the current administration and owns MSNBC and CNBC so it can control alot of the financial news for it's own stock. I think Reverse Mortgages are an evil plot to rob the remaining wealth form the middle class and I think GE is scum. But, if this is true, then I need to make money to protect myself from this. What better way than to buy their stock when it drops?

I don't say this to brag. I say it because it is possible to do well when markets crash. I did not do it by having inside info or strong technical trading knowledge, but on pessimism. I believe the system is corrupt, the fact that my investments do well, confirms it to me. A survivor doesn't fight the current all the time, they pick and choose carefully.

I hope this helps people in some way develop a mentality for their own survival. Finances are at the core of most peoples survival, yet most do not put this much thought into it.

reply to post by AP-Chris


Great run down. Thanks alot for taking the time to type all of that out.

Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by AP-Chris

 

Great run down. Thanks alot for taking the time to type all of that out.

Thank you very much.

I am by no means an expert or an insider, but I have picked up some important things along my journey and I love to share.

For the middle class, I still think the stock market offers the best chance for financial freedom, but it must be done smart. It's not automatic anymore. I don't believe in spending countless hours pouring over annual reports and trading on technicals. Let's not forget the Securities and Exchange Commission no longer has to comply with the Freedom of Information Act.

I think sitting and waiting for a dip and picking up diversified companies at a bargain is the only way left to trade. Preferably in markets that will trend up in a few years. Also, listening for news from a strong company who has suspended a dividend during a downturn is a good way to pick up preferred stock at a discount that will pay dividends later.

I still think Real Estate is the best option for taking returns from the stock market and turning them into a physical asset. I don't believe in getting a loan for an investment property because then people are basically doing all the work/upkeep/renting out/paying taxes on a property - where the bank is the one that will make the most money in the end.

I prefer to sell a stock, pay my taxes and use the gain to buy real estate outright. Then, if I rent it, most of the profit goes to me (minus property taxes and maintenance). Better yet, turn around and sell the property "Owner Financed." You can charge a higher rate than the banks (1 1/2 - 2 % above what the banks are), you don't have to pay maintenace costs or property taxes since the debtee is now responsible for that. And, best of all, if the debtee defualts on you - you foreclose on them, get the property back and resell to someone else.

A note on this:
Condos under $50,000 are excellent for this. You can often get a 10% annual return on your money this way. Often the cheaper places outperform the more expensive properties, but it depends on the area. A $40,000 condo might rent out for $600-$650 a month while a $100,000 home may rent out for $1,100 a month.

Properties under $50,000 are also taking a beating right now because banks (for some reason) aren't really interested in loaning under $50,000 for a home. I think it is because a condo under $50,000 is too easy to pay off early. A cash buyer can pick many of these properties up at substantial discounts. Which is what it is all about for the investor.

Disclaimer:
I'm just some nutjob posting on a conspiracy sight!

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Yes, I got my metals through APMEX, too, and they are very reliable.

Silver is still the better buy right now, but if you have a lot to invest, get both!

Gold and silver have a long way to go before the bubble bursts. As Jim Rogers put it: $2000 gold is a given.

Silver is the better buy because it has so much further to run up before it falls into a more realistic ratio against gold. It should be closer to 15:1 than 50:1. The historical average is somewhere between 12:1 and 16:1 (I've read both). So, silver has a lot of ground to still make up.

Plus, it is an industrial metal and for the first time we are at a deficit (started about 1-2 years ago). We are selling more silver than we are taking out of the ground and will hit a wall within a few years.

I made my last large purchase in July and have done more than my share to take down JPM ... although I still like to pick up some jewelry items if I can get them below spot

Investing 101:

Your money is made on the Buy.

So, why would you buy gold from all these dealers and pay 20% premium?

I will quote myself here:

I think gold is a lousy investment for the vast majority of people. Especially those with debt. I think the people that are marketing it to the middle class are either ignorant or scum or both. I think gold served a purpose for the Jews to turn their assets into something they could physically carry when they were escaping persecution in WWII Germany. They couldn’t transfer assets through banks so most left with only what they could carry. I think that unless someone is expecting to be a refugee and go through the same thing, they don’t need physical gold. I think everyone is better off paying off debt and buying the things they need and want. I also think that this approach is healthier for the country as a whole.

If you want to convert your assets to something physical you can leave the country with, gold or diamonds are the ticket. If you are not going to do that, buy stock in a Swiss utility company or something.

The Jews that liquidated their estates and bought gold/diamonds and left to other places took losses on their estates and were paid LESS than what THEY paid for the gold in the end. The upside was that they did manage to transfer most of their wealth out of country. Make no mistake, they did not make money doing this.

Take the money, buy a condo, insure it then rent it out or sell it owner financed. You are far more likely to prosper in bad times like this than by buying gold at premium prices.

Gold's bubble will burst just like every other investment sold to the masses.

reply to post by AP-Chris


Good advice!

When and if the SHTF, who are you going to sell your gold or silver to when you need liquid assets? No one will be buying because the spot price will be out of sight.

Industrial metal futures would be a better investment.

Precious metal is beautiful but it's worthless if no one is buying it back.

reply to post by AP-Chris


I say that's great advice. But if your government is obviously debasing the currency you have to hedge against it. Silver and gold are excellent for that. With concerns over actual gold and silver holdings, lawsuits to the same, paper isn't a good thing to hold. Everything from the dollar to the ETF.

Personally, if you have money, worry about securing a nice place to live, a decent and reliable vehicle, individual energy independence, and personal protection and preservation(food and firearms). Then worry about gold.

reply to post by projectvxn


reply to post by projectvxn


Yes, I think everyone is on the same page in realizing that our currency is getting debased and faces the real possibility of no longer being the world's reserve currency in the future. And, hopefully most people are already doing as both you and I recommend: Paying off Secured Debt (Mortgage, vehicles). It is the way to go for most people and a excellent idea whether TSHTF or not.

Beyond that, most people are struggling with what to do with their investments to protect their wealth going forward and there are no real easy answers for that. That's why physical gold/silver markets are booming.
Here on ATS, most of us have read about Tungsten in the Gold Bars, ETF's selling beyond what they have holdings in, Precious Metals manipulation, etc... so it is a harder question for us.

People really should read up on what Argentina went through during their crash. Those selling physical gold after the crash usually got paid at jewelery gold prices and took losses.


The million dollar question for me is: If the Dollar crashes, will our stock market crash as well?

In the short term, I say yes, but in the long term I say no.

Take XYZ utility company for example:

So, the dollar doom has arrived and our currency value is 20% of what it was pre-crash.

The utility company still has all of the same assets, equipment, systems and customers. Sure, their operating costs just went through the roof because fuel for power generation has skyrocketed. They simply pass these costs onto the consumer. What, is the consumer going to live in the dark? No, they will pay because they have to and just try to cut down on their usage.

OK, so the utility company is still a functioning and valuable business. In fact, it has roughly the same value as it did before, regardless of what happened to the US dollar. That means it's stock price has to raise 80% in US dollars to match what the company is actually worth.

Of course, this is a little over simplified and does not take the company's debts and cost of debt or future debt costs into consideration, but again that's why I say search for the rock solid (low debt) companies.

That's my bet, invest in a rock solid utility company and let inflation push the stock price up.

That's why I mentioned a Swiss Utility company earlier. The Swiss Franc is no longer backed by law in Gold, but the Swiss still do maintain roughly 20% reserve backed by gold which, combined with investing in a utility company in their stock market, you gain both a hedge against a dropping US dollar and the income potential from actually owning an active company. Gold just sits there and fluctuates based on people fears and emotions.

I say pick companies which sell core products and services that people cannot do without. (Electricity, Water, Food) A dollar crash means inflation and stock prices of certain companies will inflate with everything else.

If things get horrible, brass and copper (in the form of ammunition) is a better play than gold and silver!

Originally posted by realeyes
I have bought from bulliondirect(dot)com before. Stick to one oz bars if you are worried about having to use it as currency eventually

No. If you're going to use silver and gold as currency you need to buy not just one ounce bars, but fractional bullion as well. Remember that gold is priced by the ounce and so is silver. When I buy I buy fractional. I buy ounces of both at a time, but it's all in fractional increments like 1/10th ounce bars and coins, 1/3 and 1/2 ounce rounds and bars are great too..

I also like buying 1/10th ounce BBs(Gold and silver shot-the form you get from the refiners when you've sent them some jewelry to melt down for you).

You don't want to have to figure out how much silver you're going to cut off of a 1 ounce bar for a pack of gum...

reply to post by projectvxn


I see silver broke a record today. Do you see it going back down again if so where? Thats when I'm thinking about getting in. Thanks.

I hope you won't be dissuaded by all the unsubstantiated "bubble" talk mayabong. For the past 8 years, every time, and I mean every time Gold breaks-out to nominal new highs, I hear the same tired old mantra. Long term investors with a firm grasp on underlying fundamentals, eventually become accustomed to the incessant regurgitation. Ultimately, as an educated investor, I'm sure you will too.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/09703ca34167.gif[/atsimg]

Today, only 0.8% of all global financial assets are invested in Gold, and related mining stocks. In 1980, global allocation was 28%...and that was without today's unprecedented levels of currency destruction/quantitative easing. In other words, we're nowhere close to a top in this market.

Old adage: One tends to see the bubbles wherever one is NOT invested

In your effort to acquire additional information, you may find this link beneficial.

GLTY

reply to post by mayabong

90% silver coins (1964 and before aka "junk silver") is the cheapest form of silver to buy. It runs about .715 x the price of silver bullion x face. $30 silver = 21.5~ x face value or $2150 for $100 face but you can buy it in odd lots (even as small as one silver dime for $21.50 altho small lots would be a little higher on the ratio). Silver Eagles are the most popular but carry the greatest premium (exc for Canadian Wolf coins which are a ltd ed). One of the problems with silver (also true for gold but to a slightly lesser effect) is the premium above spot which coins carry and which is usually lost upon resale. Silver eagles can be sold for spot of better but generic silver coins and 90% silver will require discounting under the actual bullion value to sell. In 1980 when the Hunts ran up the market during the sweet spot of double digit inflation and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and silver reached $50....a lot of dealers were only paying $35/oz for it because supply to the refiners were backed up and they had to assume market risk + wait to get paid on their end. It was so crazy that actual silver dollars were melted along with expensive tea sets, etc. That overhanging supply is gone now but we have a new generation of silver buyers who may rush to take profits all at once some day (and some will never sell because the rationale for buying for a hedge against uncertainty wont change that much).

Silver is volatile; I remember a day in April 1987 when it dropped $4+ in 20" (11.20~ to 7.00). And, of course, in late Jan 1980 when it turned (Comex changed the rules on the Hunt Bros) it went from limit up to limit down and crashed all the back to $5 in short order. We are closing in on a major target area for silver in the 32-34 area that could generate a shake out (btw, we peaked out temporarily this week a yr ago). It is hard to say where the market could correct to....21 would be the extreme and 25 -26 the expected area....buy a little on dips and be prepared to take heat. Max Keiser and some others in France were calling for taking cash out of the banks on Dec 7 (tomorrow) and buying silver. It looks like they will be buying high and might be buying into a bull trap on this break out to new highs. Caveat emptor.