Come on guys.. A Violent Revolution .. REALLY?

reply to post by TechUnique


I agree to an extent. That is, everyone taking their guns, getting together and storming Washington...that is just fantasy.

What I DO think could work is challenging the government by standing you're ground in different matters. I think one of the boldest moves would be to make a reality t.v show where a large number of people buy land, start growing marijuana for cancer patients and defend it with their life. Sounds silly, but it would be a scenario where the government would be the villain in action and policy would be brought back out to the table....hopefully no one would actually be killed.

Originally posted by wrathofall
Chucky, you just don't want to see it. Your playing right into their hands. It's not about being willing to die for what you believe in, it's about NOT playing THEIR game. Your are the exact hot headed jackass that is going to allow them to enact their plans. But you are to much of a bad ass, you know it all and you won't listen to logical thinking. Nothing that I say or anyone else here says will convince you otherwise. You are a representative of a minority in this world that will flip a switch that they are waiting to be switched. Go for it. See how it works out for us. You are no better than they are.

Nonsense. There isn't a single government on this planet that promotes the violent uprising of the people. You're living in a dream world. It is you, the Pacifists, who keep them in power.

"Oh no Barry! The people are peacefully protesting, we're doomed!" Pull the other one! You're the victim of brainwashing.

What you forget to mention is that you owe every liberty you have to violent protest, or government fear of violent uprising. Coward pacifist. You're the reason we're in this state of affairs in the first place. You should hang your head in shame, you're a disgrace to the human race; Slave.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by TechUnique

 

You are of course correct that a violent revolution is impossible. It would only work if it were spontaneous - happening everywhere at once - and had the numbers behind it to make it work. The more zealous amongst us, at least in America, like to point out that we have guns. Well... I have three guns and I don't care to match their firepower to this:

Against that, my biggest weapon, a 12 gauge shotgun, just doesn't hold up.

But, and this is the painful truth that people avoid over and over again... Real "revolution" is much less violent and much more difficult. We have the means to conduct this revolution right now... all of us. But, when the rubber hits the road, few if any will agree to it.

Ghandi showed us the beginnings of the path. Modern life fills in the blanks...

If we all (those in the middle class and lower) simply opt out - we would win. If we all just refused to go to work, to purchase anything, to use our utilities, to drive our cars... If we all just turned off the system... even for a few days... Change would occur.

The beast that holds us down feeds upon our money and the sweat of our brow. We are the enablers and WE are addicted to what the beast offers us.

Violence is unnecessary when we can slay our demons simply by starving them of our own participation in their system. The real question we need to ask ourselves is not "would I take up arms"... It's "Am I committed enough to just refuse to be a part of it"?

~Heff

This thing needs three things to be effective-
Fuel
ammunition
Pilot
removing one or more will render it usless. just saying. violence is always a last resort, but it is a resort.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Violent revolution may have worked in the past but it would not work now. Not for a full overthrow of the current PTB anyway.

Can you actually comprehend the power being the British army or Army army against its own people? Let alone the other countries that could be called in for help.

Violent revolution would be a pointless and un-winnable war where many would die for nothing in the long run.

Technology is way too advanced to be fighting a war against your own government nowadays.

If you can't see this then that is your problem, god speed and god bless.

I'd just like to note the very obvious fact that poorly armed revolutionaries in Afghanistan have combated a larger and better equipped force for nearly a decade now. All this "you can't win against tanks and planes" crap is just crap. When our troops finally leave that country, they will leave as unsuccessful as the Soviet Union did. Anyone who thinks the American people couldn't do something similar in their own country just lacks tactical imagination.

Rarely have I seen such a display of cowardice and defeatism in one thread as in this one. It's shameful. While I'm not advocating revolution at the moment, it is a valid option, granted to us by our founders. If your technology is insufficient to battle an "occupying force," and you cannot upgrade the technology, then adapt your tactics accordingly. Everything and everyone on this planet has a weakness. All you have to do is find it and exploit it to your advantage.

That being said, all other options should be exhausted before making this difficult decision.

Originally posted by TechUnique
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Violent revolution may have worked in the past but it would not work now. Not for a full overthrow of the current PTB anyway.

Can you actually comprehend the power being the British army or Army army against its own people? Let alone the other countries that could be called in for help.

Violent revolution would be a pointless and un-winnable war where many would die for nothing in the long run.

Technology is way too advanced to be fighting a war against your own government nowadays.

If you can't see this then that is your problem, god speed and god bless.

Your entire argument is redundant and history shows you to be wrong. The great British army that can't defeat the Taliban? I'm shaking like a dog sh*tting razor blades, mate. When things turn violent, the government calls for peace and negotiates with the 'enemy'. This was historically true 500 years ago, and it's true for 2010.

Peaceful protest, revolution or uprising can and is ignored. The problem with people of your ilk is you're pushing an idea and 'solution' that's been practiced for decades, without result. All you can do is theorise the failure of violent protest, despite history conflicting with your world view. I on the otherhand, can say as a matter of fact that Peaceful protest hasn't worked. We wouldn't be having this very discussion if Peaceful protest worked.

While you're comfortable sat in your middle class suburban home, driving to Marks and Spencers in your Dads hybrid car, worrying about a tax increase on wine, the working class majority are going through real struggle. Struggle that won't be ignored for much longer. That's what I need you to understand.

It's okay to take the moral high ground when you're in a position to do that. Most people aren't. If you poke someone with a stick for long enough, they'll snap, violently. Until you're poked with a stick you'll never understand the flaws of being a Pacifist.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

While you're comfortable sat in your middle class suburban home, driving to Marks and Spencers in your Dads hybrid car, worrying about a tax increase on wine, the working class majority are going through real struggle. Struggle that won't be ignored for much longer. That's what I need you to understand.

It's okay to take the moral high ground when you're in a position to do that. Most people aren't. If you poke someone with a stick for long enough, they'll snap, violently. Until you're poked with a stick you'll never understand the flaws of being a Pacifist.

I'm sorry but you know nothing about me.

I live in a ghetto scummy town in England. I live in a modest council house with my mother ever since I was evicted.

I have decent qualifications and have been looking for a job for years but with no luck. I am still only 18.

Got kicked out of my mothers before I was even 16..

I don't mean to rant about my life, other people have it a lot worse but you seem to think I have lived in some sort of fantasy bubble world where all my needs are catered for. This is FAR from the case.

If you don't believe I am who I say I am, check out my music in my signature.

I would love nothing more than to take part in a violent revolution and take these scumbags down. It just isn't feasible.

reply to post by TechUnique


You are living in a dream land. What if and what if, the social security fund runs out? Or, what if the monthly payment made by the government can not buy the food needed to survive due to the dollar implosion? People don't revolt just because they suddenly decide to do it one day out of blue for fun or anything like that.

People revolt because there is no other choice !!!

reply to post by TechUnique


It isn't feasible, *in your opinion.* Further, you seem only to have considered this in terms of raw numbers of revolutionaries versus raw numbers of troops and the technology of the troops versus the technology of the resistance. I believe that is short-sighted and not very thorough criteria. Again, if numbers and technology are all that matters, how are Afghani resistance fighters so successful? Why hasn't the US been able to declare victory and leave?

It's feasible. You just aren't being imaginative enough in your analysis, or more accurately, the lack thereof.

Originally posted by bikeshedding
reply to post by TechUnique

 

It isn't feasible, *in your opinion.* Further, you seem only to have considered this in terms of raw numbers of revolutionaries versus raw numbers of troops and the technology of the troops versus the technology of the resistance. I believe that is short-sighted and not very thorough criteria. Again, if numbers and technology are all that matters, how are Afghani resistance fighters so successful? Why hasn't the US been able to declare victory and leave?

It's feasible. You just aren't being imaginative enough in your analysis, or more accurately, the lack thereof.

In England there are barely any guns floating about.

Sure I could get hold of one if I really needed it but Its not like there is a gun to every household like other countries.

Maybe in America you could do some damage, get martial law declared, get innocent people caught in the crossfire. Wreck some havoc for the system. Be cool, be James bond. Live your fantasy.

Truth is you will die in the end, same as all the others who think they could take on TPTB.

You might even get your whole town bombed.

reply to post by TechUnique


It's liberals against conservatives....and liberals make for terrible fighters. A revolution would last less than a week before the liberals have all surrendered. We're really not all that worried. Honest.

Originally posted by TechUnique

Originally posted by NadaCambia
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

While you're comfortable sat in your middle class suburban home, driving to Marks and Spencers in your Dads hybrid car, worrying about a tax increase on wine, the working class majority are going through real struggle. Struggle that won't be ignored for much longer. That's what I need you to understand.

It's okay to take the moral high ground when you're in a position to do that. Most people aren't. If you poke someone with a stick for long enough, they'll snap, violently. Until you're poked with a stick you'll never understand the flaws of being a Pacifist.

I'm sorry but you know nothing about me.

I live in a ghetto scummy town in England. I live in a modest council house with my mother ever since I was evicted.

I have decent qualifications and have been looking for a job for years but with no luck. I am still only 18.

Got kicked out of my mothers before I was even 16..

I don't mean to rant about my life, other people have it a lot worse but you seem to think I have lived in some sort of fantasy bubble world where all my needs are catered for. This is FAR from the case.

If you don't believe I am who I say I am, check out my music in my signature.

I would love nothing more than to take part in a violent revolution and take these scumbags down. It just isn't feasible.

edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)

edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)

What does your music have to do with anything? All I'm getting from that is that you have no flow and can't find the beat Granted you aren't middle class, you'd still be an exception. It's obvious you've been indoctrinated by middle class propoganda. The peaceful protest option has been exhausted. You're gonna have to come to terms with that. It's failed. The verdicts been out.

I think YOU'RE living in a fantasy world. Where violent protest will be met with military resistence and we'll all be killed or thrown in FEMA camps. If it was that black and white, that easy, why haven't they done that? If they're all mighty and all powerful, what are they waiting for?

You're really scared of these guys? You're scared of an army that can't even defeat the Taliban in a ground war? Struggled with the IRA and entered peace negotiations! Where do you get this idea they'd crush millions of people with such ease? Your fear is humorous. Most in the British army are chavs who'd otherwise be on the dole if it wasn't for the army.

reply to post by TechUnique


Truth is, you keep saying your opinion and calling it "truth." You also keep ignoring the Afghan angle. Why demean my argument? I'm certainly not trying to be James Bond and I highly, highly resent your attitude here. Revolution is not the best choice by any means -- it is the last choice.

We all die in the end. That's sort of how life is set up. If you would rather die in submission than resistance, that's your choice. But don't be so globally dismissive of the notion based solely on the availability of guns and ammo.

If you're going to respond to this one, make it a thoughtful response, and don't go ad hominem on me again or try to side-step a point with demeaning language or you and I are done with this discussion. That means not characterizing me as some sort of bloodthirsty action hero wannabe and actually responding to the content itself as opposed to senseless reductions of it.

Originally posted by fredcall
reply to post by TechUnique

 

It's liberals against conservatives....and liberals make for terrible fighters. A revolution would last less than a week before the liberals have all surrendered. We're really not all that worried. Honest.

You're seriously trying to argue that the middle and upper class can fight better than the working class?

This isn't America. The poor, working class of Britain are Liberals.

Originally posted by TechUnique

Originally posted by bikeshedding
reply to post by TechUnique

 

It isn't feasible, *in your opinion.* Further, you seem only to have considered this in terms of raw numbers of revolutionaries versus raw numbers of troops and the technology of the troops versus the technology of the resistance. I believe that is short-sighted and not very thorough criteria. Again, if numbers and technology are all that matters, how are Afghani resistance fighters so successful? Why hasn't the US been able to declare victory and leave?

It's feasible. You just aren't being imaginative enough in your analysis, or more accurately, the lack thereof.

In England there are barely any guns floating about.

Sure I could get hold of one if I really needed it but Its not like there is a gun to every household like other countries.

Maybe in America you could do some damage, get martial law declared, get innocent people caught in the crossfire. Wreck some havoc for the system. Be cool, be James bond. Live your fantasy.

Truth is you will die in the end, same as all the others who think they could take on TPTB.

You might even get your whole town bombed.

Your naivity is laughable. Do you sleep with teddy bears at night? The British government isn't going to bomb any towns. You've been listening to too much Alex Jones mate

Originally posted by bikeshedding
Revolution is not the best choice by any means -- it is the last choice.

Well said. He seems to be living in some sort of dreamland where peaceful protest is effective

The Afghanistan point is a good one although isn't entirely relevant.

In a home country the government has a lot more power over what they can do compared to on foreign soil, for a start.

Secondly, the Taliban I'm sure have more experience fighting than the average American or Brit.

I understand your Afghanistan point but really do not see it being completely relevant to this discussion. Granted it is a good point.

Seems like we need to calm down the levels in this thread.

Oh and the music comment, Its all a matter of opinion my friend. People think I am SICK at grime. Anyone who likes the genre likes it and plenty who do not like the genre still appreciate the lyrical content and flow.

Thanks for your not very-constructive criticism but it is not needed.

If enough people actually decided not to go to work, not to use banks, not to police the streets for TPTB. Stop joining the army. The list goes on. There ARE peaceful alternatives to violent revolution.

Violence will just cause more violence and more tyranny at a faster rate.

If you want to ruin it for everyone else then go ahead. Even if intentions are good it doesn't change the fact that it could cause a lot more hell in the long run.

Originally posted by bikeshedding
I'd just like to note the very obvious fact that poorly armed revolutionaries in Afghanistan have combated a larger and better equipped force for nearly a decade now. All this "you can't win against tanks and planes" crap is just crap. When our troops finally leave that country, they will leave as unsuccessful as the Soviet Union did. Anyone who thinks the American people couldn't do something similar in their own country just lacks tactical imagination.

Rarely have I seen such a display of cowardice and defeatism in one thread as in this one. It's shameful. While I'm not advocating revolution at the moment, it is a valid option, granted to us by our founders. If your technology is insufficient to battle an "occupying force," and you cannot upgrade the technology, then adapt your tactics accordingly. Everything and everyone on this planet has a weakness. All you have to do is find it and exploit it to your advantage.

That being said, all other options should be exhausted before making this difficult decision.

edit on 5-12-2010 by bikeshedding because: Rephrase

I completely agree with you here. Anyone notice how scared the American government is that it will lose the war? Cmon! A bunch of Iraqis and Afghans with AK-47, RPG-7s, and some homemade bombs! And they can challenge and hold up to the thousands of American soldiers, and Trillions of US dollars being emptied out on THEIR little battlefield. Pacifism never resolved ANY situation me or anyone around me has come across. I use for example my mother. She is ignorant to all of this yes, but she knows the economy is in shambles at least. When she recieved her outrageous 500 dollar cell phone bill she was flipped. She lashed out on T-Mobile on the phone, even calling up the manager (or whoever. She asked for the manager though) And she cursed him out, leading him to actually go in and 'force change' her bill to the real price -- $98.12 (still have the bill too.) Simple, If standing around has brought us nothing for 10 years, what will it do tomorrow?

reply to post by mr10k


I am not talking about doing nothing.

Well actually I am, doing nothing for the TPTB which is actually doing something for the cause.

If you cannot see how this would be more effective than fighting a war against an invisible enemy then I wish you luck.

well first of all hundreds of thousands if not millions of patriotic americans were trained by the military, and know of most every military base and the locations of their weapon cashes, and know how to use the equipment. it wont be a bunch of back yard hillbillies from the 1700s with muskets, and this is why the government has put all formal military personnel on terrorist watch lists. 80% of the current enlisted military will take their equipment and join the patriot cause, if they clearly see that their families and friends have joined the ranks of the patriots and not let harm come their way.

if a revolt was to come to pass? it could only be successful if it was a full engagement of large populations of the american patriots, and not little terroristic cells of subversives harming the general public. that would only benefit the NWO and play straight into their agenda

there is no peaceful solution, because the government will not except anything but MANDATORY COMPLIANCE to their AUTHORITY, and they wont let up the pressure.

they're just egging for a fight, its everything they desire. and if we dont give them what they want, they will just bulldozer us under without out as much as a squeak, and they will have won.

when i see our government start prosecuting and imprisoning the global bankers and the corporate thieves, and their own crooked insiders. then i could possibly agree that change for the benefit of this country was being attempted, and that there might be hope for a peaceful future.

BUT THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN

so it only MUST lead to one other conclusion