U.S. using chemical weapons in Afghanistan: report

Originally posted by sonjah1

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by sonjah1
reply to post by oozyism

 

The relationship is you believe that the Tehran news source is true--that the US is using chemical weapons in Afghanistan--but you do not say who is the Ayatollah of Iran....

Could it be China, or is it Russia?

Iran already has an Ayatollah DUUUH (Ayatollah)

They have no foreign Ayatollahs, remember the revolution? They topple an American puppet?

ZZZZ

Again

What does the above have to do with US using chemical weapons in Afghanistan? The evidence is there in the article, go research it, and actually post with substance.

Oh, Iran has its own Ayatollah, eh? Is that the same Ayatollah that distorts the Islamic religion, and kills in its name?

Didn't you see the images on TV when a bunch of state police shot innocent bystanders on the streets for holding signs in Iran?

Or, stoning people to death because they *believed* without proof that they did something wrong?

And holds innocent diplomats hostages for days on end?

We are supposed to ignore all of these human rights violations, but believe the Iranian media when they report on the US supposedly using chemical weapons in Afghanistan.

Wow, what a credible media source. Surely, you cannot be that naive...

But thats just it. He IS that naive.

Ive been through this all time and time again with Oozy, and he really, honestly does not see the evil that is Iran. How it suppresses the rights of their own citizens, especially women, far beyond anything that has ever happened in the US.

Besides, we all know the Iranian media tows the line for the government. Hell, if they didnt im sure the whole editorial team would be relaxing in sunny Evin prison by now.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by oozyism

 

Lol you almost got it. Thermo baric weapons and bunker busters are conventional weapons, not chemical and to my knowledge they are not even equipped to carry it.

Now I want you to do me a favor - go back to the article and read their "proof". See anything different about it?

* - The Canadian medical team - Can you find the report where this is claimed? Ive been unable to find any reference to canadian medical teams doing whats described.

* - The investigative research scholar in part 1 - Claim poisons were found - Which ones were found? in what quantities, where was it located?

* - part 3 changes the the story, using the term biological weapons instead of chemical - There is a massive difference between the 2, and the biological weapon type was not identified, there is no supporting medical info from Hospitals who "treated" any problems.

* - Source of info was not given. The US military no longer uses phosphorus bombs as its outlawed. The only weapon in the US arsenal that uses depleted urnaium is the M1 Main battle tank, which are not deployed, and have never been deployed, to the Afghanistan theatre.

I have never seen an infant suffer from weightlessness as the doctor described on Earth. Since we dont have levitation technology, and we ar not in orbit, I am not sure how weighlessness on the ground would work.

Lukemia is caused by:
Smoking, Exposure to Radiation, Previous Chemotherapy or Radiation Therapy, Human T-Cell Leukemia Virus, Myelodysplasctic Syndrome, Downs Syndrome. None of which can be caused by anything the US has in theatre or out of theatre for that matter.

* - Afghans suffering from Congenital deformities - This is why these countries need to spend less time denouncing the great satan and more time building a damn medical center. What is a congential abnormality and what causes it?
-

A congenital disorder may be the result of genetic abnormalities, the intrauterine (uterus) environment, errors of morphogenesis, infection, or a chromosomal abnormality

* - and finally the blanket, vague statement of Afghans are suffing from various disease.. ok.. which ones? where, patient age, exposures etc etc.

Please Oozzy.. I am now begging you, research article before you post them. This is propoganda and you are smart enough to know better. Please start thinking for yourself and maybe once in a while take the time to question an article. I know you hate the US and want to provide whatever information you can to support your agenda, but this is just borderline asshattery.

Please practice what you preach and research on your own before buying into the propoganda, just as you tell us westerners to do.

** MOD any chance we can get this moved to the Hoax section for lack of facts, supporting documentation in addition to it being nothing but a piece of propoganda trash**

See this is what credibility looks like...

The OP is what a fanaticism looks like...

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Not one soldier in Afghanistan carries or wears NBC suits or is dosing themselves with antropine.

That fact alone disproves the op.

No actually it just proves that the US government does not care about its soldiers.

How many soldiers returned from the Gulf War with the mysterious "Gulf War Syndrome", 300,000 I think? Only 350t of DU was deployed there at the time and between then and Operation Iraqi Liberation birth defects and illness spread like wildfire.

During OIL, the Americans made no restrictions on their use of DU. They loaded it into everything from M1 rounds to the miniguns in A10s. Radiation exposure in Iraq is said to be hundreds of times worse than the years after WWII in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

How many American soldiers come home suffering from "Post-Dramatic Stress Disorder"? Hundreds of thousands again? Yup. High rise in the rate of American suicides? It gets worse every month.

Obviously the Americans are using DU itself as a weapon against Afghan insurgents. It's use as a penetrator is complete bullsh*t. Since when do Americans encounter heavily armored targets in Afghanistan? Caves are enough of an excuse to litter the country with a weapon proven to desolate an entire regional population with a half-life of 50,000 years?

People who try to defend the use of DU are complete tools. They are worthless and support genocide. It is not exactly complicated to use conventional steel or tungston core ammunition instead of nuclear waste, especially against tribal insurgents who fight with AK-47s and ride donkeys.

Depleted uranium isn't so much a chemical weapon as it is a radiological weapon. Though technically uranium is a chemical (U231).

Here is some info on DU use:

DU Use in Iraq (2001-2003) report

Video explaining DU use

I just want to say that I've read a lot of literature about global issues before, and depleted uranium use always pops up. While there might be some armchair generals on ATS who support DU use, there are exponentially more intellectuals around the world who have much more experience on the subject (including scientists who develop the weapons and investigate WMDs) who expose the reality of the situation as nothing more than genocide.

Saying that the terrorists also use chemical weapons is misdirection. I remember the US-led media campaign years back about the "fear" of a "terrorist attack" involving "easy to make dirty bombs". Depleted uranium is a dirty weapon that the US has deployed extensively on rebels, enemy soldiers, civilians, and US soldiers alike. This is the reality of the situation.

Anyone who claims that DU is safe and legitimize US use of it need to shut the f*ck up or ingest some of it themselves. Will you be saying the same thing when your sperm produces bloody piles of flesh instead of a nice, round, bouncing baby? Can you even comprehend the psychological effect that this creates on the parents, on the people as a whole who are attacked by these indiscriminate weapons?

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


300k??? Check your facts. The main force that invaded Kuwait was multi national and consisted of 150k troops. Gulf war syndrome by the way has been investigated as posible allied exposure to chemical weapon attacks from Iraq. One of the reasons this would not make the news is because of Americas policy on that. We are one of a few countries who view the use of Chemical or a Biological attack on our forces / country as meeting criteria for a nuclear response.

Simply stating our Government does not care does not win you the argument.

PTSD has nothing to do with chemical or bio wapons being used in Afghanistan. And for your information PTSD is not a US disease. It is suffered by any group that is in extended high stress situations. These signs might be noted on the Iraq / Afghani side if they spent time building a medical center to learn about it. However that takes away from killing the infiadel so nevermind.

We have already discussed the use of DU munitions, so not sure why we are rehashing that. The info and link provided have nothing at all to do with the article the OP posted, which makes the claims for Afghanistan, and not IRaq. Since the 2 countries dont even border each other you cannot even make a connection.

DO you have any relevant information that directly supports the lies...errr. article that was posted? If not, then why are you derailing the thread and shifting the conversation to an area you think you can win the argument in?

Either provide direct support for your climas in addition to the article with sources that support your argument, or dont. Iraq has nothing to do with the OP thread.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Anyone who claims that DU is safe and legitimize US use of it need to shut the f*ck up or ingest some of it themselves.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is safe, not even the US government. However, I do claim that there is a justification for its use, unfortunately. Without DU, our soldiers and our allies wouldn't have proper armor, nor would we have a proper way of penetrating enemy armor. So yes, I believe that there is a justification in using it, at least until a harder and lighter substance is invesnted. Unfortunately, because our enemies (real or imagined) have the technology, so must we to compete.

Furthermore, I have ingested, developed cancer because of it, and have been dealing with it ever since. Again, the Army had no problems with admitting it and then compensating me accordingly. This still doesn't deter my opinion that there is justification in using it. Even if we didn't use it, our enemies would.


--airspoon

reply to post by oozyism


Vietnam was 40 years ago, Japan 65 years ago! And who si to say that Iraqi deformaties have anything to do with coalition forces (maybe it was Saddam using chemical weapons on his own people - yes it happened and I have seen the footage from a news team that went into the Kurdish village just after it happened).

You are now just tryng to attack the US any chance you get using any feeble argument.

Furthermore, I have ingested, developed cancer because of it, and have been dealing with it ever since. Again, the Army had no problems with admitting it and then compensating me accordingly. This still doesn't deter my opinion that there is justification in using it. Even if we didn't use it, our enemies would.

...you've accepted depleted uranium use along with compensation for what it has done to you? What you say is profound, but I don't even know what to say to that because it makes no sense to me at all. If it had happened to me, I would spend the rest of my life advocating and probably fighting against the forces that employ such unnecessary measures.

In my eyes, wars are meant to be battlegrounds for ideals and the strongest ideal determines the outcome of the fight and the future for all people involved. Why must weapons be used that create perpetual sickness and horror be used for gaining geopolitical terrority? These are weapons that are being used to destroy entire civilizations; it is obviously to victims, observers and the US government alike that these weapons go beyond just fighting a conflict that last just a few years. So why are they still being used?

Vietnam was 40 years ago, Japan 65 years ago! And who si to say that Iraqi deformaties have anything to do with coalition forces (maybe it was Saddam using chemical weapons on his own people - yes it happened and I have seen the footage from a news team that went into the Kurdish village just after it happened).

Did Saddam use radiological weapons on Fallujah since 2003? Because there's been a staggering rise in illness and deformities there since 2003, when the marines conducted heavily combat operations there.

Or how about Bosnia? Saddam did not deploy chemical weapons there, but the US used depleted uranium.

PTSD has nothing to do with chemical or bio wapons being used in Afghanistan.

I know it doesn't, and so does the US government, hence why they use it to label victims of DU exposure. Notice how GWS was such a big deal after the Gulf War, because that is the first time the US government had deployed DU on a mass scale.

And for your information PTSD is not a US disease.

I know it's not. But when exponentially more soldiers are labelled with it after being involved in a conflict involving DU, then it appears quite suspicious. What are soldiers affected by DU being labelled as, if I may ask (because I don't think I've come across a real explaination by the US government for why their own soldiers are sick from their own weapons yet).

300k??? Check your facts.

I got it out of a book. Though I think the 300,000 estimate also covered civilian and other forces' casualties.

We have already discussed the use of DU munitions, so not sure why we are rehashing that. The info and link provided have nothing at all to do with the article the OP posted, which makes the claims for Afghanistan, and not IRaq. Since the 2 countries dont even border each other you cannot even make a connection

I posted that in response to people legitimizing its use. I don't care where the hell it is used, it is a genocidal weapon. Does documented evidence of its effects in Iraq have no importance because Afghanistan is two countries away? These are all people that are affected by it, are they not?

DO you have any relevant information that directly supports the lies...errr. article that was posted? If not, then why are you derailing the thread and shifting the conversation to an area you think you can win the argument in?

Win? You think I'm here to win an argument? I care about people, not winning online arguments.

Either provide direct support for your climas in addition to the article with sources that support your argument, or dont. Iraq has nothing to do with the OP thread.

I don't care about your technical BS on how online debating works. I'm advocating against the use of DU, and as this thread is about DU use on the Afghan population, I am actually on topic anyways.

And considering my country has a major hand in Afghanistan, it is my nationalist (and future professional) duty to know exactly what the hell we are supporting there. Our government claims that we are there for humanitarian reasons, yet we aren't stopping US deployment of a genocidal weapon.

There's a connection between Afghanistan and Iraq, America invaded both countries.

Regarding Iraq:

According to an October 2004 Dispatch from the Italian Military Health Observatory, a total of 109 Italian soldiers have died thus far due to exposure to depleted uranium. A spokesman at the Military Health Observatory, Domenico Leggiero, states "The total of 109 casualties exceeds the total number of persons dying as a consequence of road accidents. Anyone denying the significance of such data is purely acting out of ill faith, and the truth is that our soldiers are dying out there due to a lack of adequate protection against depleted uranium". Members of the Observatory have petitioned for an urgent hearing "in order to study effective prevention and safeguard measures aimed at reducing the death-toll amongst our serving soldiers".

www.globalresearch.ca...

and regarding Afghanistan:

Those in Kabul who were directly exposed to

US-British precision bombing

showed extreme signs of contamination, consistent with uranium exposure. These included pains in joints, back/kidney pain, muscle weakness, memory problems and confusion and disorientation. Those exposed to the bombing report symptoms of flu-type illnesses, bleeding, runny noses and blood-stained mucous. How many of these people will suffer a painful and early death from cancer? Even the study team itself complained of similar symptoms during their stay. Most of these symptoms last for days or months.

In August of 2002, UMRC completed its preliminary analysis of the results from Nangarhar. Without exception, every person donating urine specimens tested positive for uranium contamination. The specific results indicated an astoundingly high level of contamination; concentrations were 100 to 400 times greater than those of the Gulf War Veterans tested in 1999. A researcher reported. "We took both soil and biological samples, and found considerable presence in urine samples of radioactivity; the heavy concentration astonished us. They were beyond our wildest imagination."

www.globalresearch.ca...

It seems people are stuck with "America can't do no wrong" disease, or at least, "it is really hard to believe America can do wrong intentionally" disease.

I seriously advice ATS to study the art of manipulation (brainwashing) used by the Nazis. Your mouth will drop wide open when you realize that US is using the same manipulation techniques against its own population, not to mention trying to spread the same manipulation to the rest of the world.

At least read Hitler's quotes

Ta Ta.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Not caring about open debate is the problem in case you missed it. Debate is the exchange of information whuile using facts to support or dismantel an argument. Throwing out random info with no facts is not debating. There is a reason facts are not interchangable, as an example we go from 300k casualties for US soldiers, to 300k casualties to allied forces and now civilians, yet no information to support the claim.

Talking about the DU in IRaq has nothing to do with the OP accusations that are based in Afghanistan. If there is such a close link, then plase provided links to reports that have been completed in Iraq based on the same criteria for Afghanistan.

You, Ozzzy, Black... Why is it so hard for you guys to accept certain thigns as fact. Even after providing coroberating information and links, you guys drop one argument and attempt to use another.

Here, this argument is easier for oyu guys to use:

You hate American and anything dealing with America. Any info that paints the US in a bad light is taken as gospel truth as if handed down by Allah herself, while any info that contradicts or does not support your claims is immidiately pushed off and dismissed.

Whats the point in even debating the info then? Why even bother posting the balloon dribble in the first pace when it serves absolutely no purpose?

Even having a person make the comment to limit the size of my post is hillarious. Are you guys that scared of a real debate that can prove you guys wrong? So in an effort to counter that, obfuscation techniques are used all the way up to packing up your marbles and going home. Seriously.. Complaining about the size of a post that contains resource info and links is a lame attempt to end the debate based on reasons other than the debate itself.

Here is a suggestion - If you guys want to make these arguments agains tthe US, use more than one source. Use reliable sources that actually reference names and reports with links to verify information.

That is how you guys are going to make a credible argument that will result in a real debate. Anything less is a waste of time and comes across as uninformed and ignorant on the topics.

Seriously.. come back with real information in such an overwhelming manner, where we have no choice but to actually accept it.

Originally posted by oozyism
It seems people are stuck with "America can't do no wrong" disease, or at least, "it is really hard to believe America can do wrong intentionally" disease.

America can do no wrong diease, followed up by the typical Nazi comparison. Seriously, this is why your arguments never work. As I said before, you have made some good posts, good info, only to derail your own threads with your American hate speech.

Here is a small clue to help you distinguish between Americans and Nazis. If the US were Nazis, you would not be alive to voice your discontent. Why? because if Nazis ruled you would be considered inferior and sent off to a death camp. Why? because you would be considered subhuman and not worth the time, and a waste of good air and resources.

None of this has happened to you.. You are still hear, posting your views and hoping to change minds.

and for someone who hates America and the West so much, you seem to have no problem living in a western nation, using the same rights and guarantees you argue to take away from people.

Under Islam, you would be put to death as a traitor for enjoying Western Comforts. Even engaging in conversation in these forums is a grave act that can result in your death at the hands of the moral police, known as the Taliban and Al Queida.

If you are going to throw history around, make sure you understand it, and how it applies to todays issues.Without that it comes across as nothing more than another speech from the Ayatollah, which no one cares about. Think for yourself, and do your own research and make your case.

As I said, you are an intelligent person, but are too dependant on stereotypes and what your told to make up your own mind.

U.S. using chemical weapons in Afghanistan: report



www.tehrantimes.com

We have gone over this a few times ooz

Consider the Source.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
U.S. using chemical weapons in Afghanistan: report

www.tehrantimes.com

We have gone over this a few times ooz

Consider the Source.

People need to realize that it is not about the source, it is about the content of the source.

Most here in ATS don't believe MSM is credible, but they use the content, and only a portion of ATS can differentiate between commentary and report.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Seriously, read about Hitlers ideology please.

It is more than the holocaust, and it is more than racism. Then again, the Zionists want you to focus on those two

Some of us have broader perspectives.
Anyways, that is for another thread, I will hopefully create a thread putting down the comparisons

reply to post by oozyism


OK Fair enough.
Then offer us the reader a collaborating independent source that's not ran by the Iranian Government.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

OK Fair enough.
Then offer us the reader a collaborating independent source that's not ran by the Iranian Government.

The source refers to those independent sources, maybe you should try reading sometimes.

It refers to research which was conducted by Dr. Mohammad Daud Miraki, research conducted by UMRS:

Here is a quote from UMRS report, "The UMRC field team was shocked by the breadth of public health impacts coincident with the bombing. Without exception, at every bombsite investigated, people are ill. A significant portion of the civilian population presents symptoms consistent with internal contamination by uranium".

Once again, the content is important.

reply to post by oozyism


I have.
I always do.

I thought Xcathdra pretty much knocked it out of the park. You never effectively dealt with the very good points that were brought up. Instead you pretty much ignored that and proceeded to beat a dead horse over the content from a known source that has a very biased opinion of the US.

Some say for a good reason.

However, the source is still biased and have an Agenda.

reply to post by SLAYER69


He argued that the sickness could be from other causes

I already proved it isn't, the samples were taken from bomb sites, people living close to bombed areas were surveyed etc. Meaning direct connection.

It is all in the UMRC report.

He claimed he couldn't even find the Canadian Research group referred by the article, but if you just type UMRC report, the first result will take you to the PDF: UMRC’s Preliminary findings from Afghanistan & Operation Enduring Freedom

There is a reason why I state couple of posts back that some have the "America can't do no wrong" disease, or the "America can't do no wrong intentionally disease". That is why they gave his post a quick star without even bothering to do some research themselves, because it fits the Universe the propaganda has built for them.




And

If right under that report, there is another report from the same research organization: Operation Iraqi Freedom Veterans’ DU Screening Program

Here is a snip from this report:

UMRC’s field staff contaminated by DU in less than three weeks of travel in Iraq

“Warning of uranium contamination risks to NGO staff, Coalition forces, foreign contract
personnel and civilians in Iraq, Uranium Medical Research Centre”
www.health-now.org...

reply to post by oozyism


Did you read the PDF you linked to?

From the top of page 6

reply to post by SLAYER69


Read between the lines Slayer, you have been around longer for you to get fouled:

The White House reported

finding uranium-alloyed warheads in local arsenals. UK intelligence and the Pentagon
reported that there is evidence from captured Taliban strongholds that uranium
dispersion and dirty-bombs were being developed in Afghanistan.

We are talking about bombed sites, weapons used by US/UK, not weapons used by Taliban.

Top of Page 7:

The Afghan civilian studies began within a few months following the reported
dates of exposure to OEF bombing. The amount of uranium per weapon and possibly
the ballistic behaviors of the weapons used in Afghanistan may result in greater
relative volumes of aerosolized particulate available for inhalation.

Bottom of page 7 and top of page 8:

UMRC’s Field Trip Report’s conclusions as to the origin of the Afghan
civilians’ uranium internal contamination is preliminary, based on (1) a follow-up field
investigation to identify the origins and (2)

radiological analysis of bomb-crater debris

taken from the sites adjacent to the contaminated population and survivors from the
blasts. The reader is invited to review UMRC’s Afghan Field Report excerpts: “

Precise
Destruction-Indiscriminate Effects

” found on this web-site.

Time to read "Precise
Destruction-Indiscriminate Effects"
Precise Destruction-Indiscriminate Effects