reply to post by pteridine
To curb your excuse that I abondoned this thread because "I'm a typical truther", I've decided to cut and paste
the info here as well. It would have been nice to start clean as you asked me to state my case, but if you're
going to complain about nonsense, we can continue to debate here.
The temperatures and all that you ask for are located in the LLNL and LANL documentation. I expect you to
source those papers for the information to prove you actually do know how to research.
Right now, the ball is in your court to find a paint that exhibits all of the criteria, or successfully disprove my
post using credible links.
YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER AND DOES NOT EXCUSE YOUR IGNORANCE TO THE SCIENCE.
SHOW US CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC LINKS TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS.
This is a follow up to the discussion between "Pteridine" and myself.
It appears that our debate has turned into anything but a debate. “Pteridine” has not given a definitive answer to any of my questions regarding
DSC trace interpretation, definitions, or prior clarifications of previous claims.
Last and most important, “Pteridine” has not sourced any references for his claims. Therefore he is arguing from opinion and nothing more.
“Pteridine” has asked me to state my case to support my position that the chips in the WTC dust are indeed energetic. His three main contests for
the dust analysis are as follows:
- 1a. Dr. Jones should have run the test in absence of air to prove a thermitic reaction.
- 1b. Iron-rich spheres are not pure iron, therefore it cannot be some sort of Thermite
- 2. Combustion occurred which contributed to the total heat which cannot be distinguished between an alumino-thermic reaction.
The fact that Dr. Jones ran the test in air has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the test because heat from combustion, nor the thermal
transition time is neither hot enough, or fast enough to produce molten iron.
Tillotson ran the test in air, and Dr. Jones duplicated the environment in order to compare data. Since the DSC cannot measure total reaction heat,
Tillotson used the residue to prove a thermitic reaction occurred.
First of all, let’s define a thermitic reaction:
By definition a thermite reaction is a chemical reaction in which aluminum metal (Al) is oxidized by a different metal-oxide, most commonly iron-oxide
(Fe2O3) . As indicated by the Latin root "therm" meaning heat, the main contribution of a thermite reaction is the exothermic heat production.
As found in the LLNL documentation, Tillotson proved a thermitic reaction by finding iron-rich spheres in his test residue:
Did Dr. Jones find iron-rich spheres after the reaction of the chips? Yes, indeed.
Spheroids were iron-rich sphere formation so that the product must have been sufficiently hot to be molten (over 1400 °C for iron and iron oxide), 3)
spheres, spheroids and nonspheroidal residues in which the iron content exceeds the oxygen content. Significant elemental iron is now present as
expected from the thermitic reduction-oxidation reaction of aluminum and iron oxide.
How did Jones ensure the results? He tested the chips before and after ignition noting several characteristics. That Iron Oxide existed prior to the
DSC testing using high power image magnification, and elemental analysis (BSE, XEDS).
Chip surfaces featuring oxidizer (white dots)
Jones Close Up
LLNL / LANL
LLNL / LANL
It is clear there are similarities of elements, textures, structures between the known nano-energetic material from LLNL and Jones’ dust sample.
**note: LLNL has done studies with Fe203 and Mo03. The photos listed from LANL are obviously not Iron Oxide, however the sol-gel process and intimate
mixtures are similar. View documentation for Tillotson to study the differences. Molybdenum is more powerful, but Iron is readily available and
cheaper to use producing nearly equal results.
Not only did Jones reference the LLNL documentation and compare the results, he also tested known thermite
along with the chips. Notice the striking comparison in the post ignition spectrums:
Chips in Dust
Notice the ratio between oxygen and iron before and after ignition. The abundance of Iron vs. oxygen shows that a reduction took place. The Aluminum
is now oxidized. Elemental Iron remains (FeIII) further proving a thermitic reaction took place.
It’s very easy to distinguish between combustion and an alumino – thermic reaction using the DSC trace.
Combustion is a slow process and creates a gradual rise in the exotherm, and a broad curve. An explosive reaction produces a sharp, near immediate
increase, a narrow band followed by a sharp drop in heat because the fuel is consumed almost instantly. There are hundreds of examples to support this
fact. Below is a known black power trace which exhibits all of the criteria outlined in this paragraph:
www.nrcan.gc.ca..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.nrcan.gc.ca...
There is absolutely no reason to debate this fact any further. Jones exotherm trace flat out proves an explosive, chemical reaction – NOT
At this point, “Pteridine” must be able to provide a DSC trace for any of the elements found in Jones’ sample which might show a broad trace,
slow exotherm, followed by a gradual decrease in heat. “Pteridine” must be able to show a credible source for his proof showing setup parameters
for the DSC test as I have done.
Total heat required cannot be achieved by combustion. We know for a fact that there is not enough energy available from the organic materials to reach
the melting point of iron.
LANL has specified a heat of reaction including combustion as 912’C (Mo03) which falls short by about 600’C. We know for a fact that conventional
thermite can produce up to 2500’C which is more than 900’C over the temperature required to melt iron.
en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> en.wikipedia.org...
We also know that LLNL has produce mixtures of nano-thermite that can produce over 4000’C of reaction heat:
In Summary, “Pteridine” must acknowledge that he has accepted that iron-rich spheres exist in Jones’ post- ignition samples and that iron-rich
not only means a thermitic reaction took place, it also means “Pteridine” was incorrect about the spheres needing to be 100% iron.
There is a mountain of proof in this post alone to show that the chips resemble nano-energetic materials produced by LLNL. The photos, and the science
prove it. Backed with sources from government labs no less.
edit on 14-12-2010 by turbofan because: (no reason given)