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Assange has been misleading on wanting to stop the war - Revenge on the US

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posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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WikiLeaks to publish files on aliens, UFOs

I am not addressing the UFO information, however the article above did publish something very intresting from Mr. Assange.

Asanges goal this entire time, as he maintained, was to expose info to end the war. I have argued the war was an excuse, and to me it appears it was correct.


Assange said his decision to dump top secret US documents on its website was revenge against "abusive elements of the United States government".


He also talked about how no one can really stop the spread of documents, stating if something happened to him there were other groups who had the key parts of the info. I wonder if this was what he was referring to about insurance.


In a clear warning to the authorities, he said the leaked American diplomatic cables, along with "significant material from the US and other countries", had been copied to more than 100,000 files. "If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically," he said.


The reson I point this out is because Mr. Assange has stated repeatedly this had nothing to do about anything but ending the wars. Another issue was the release of the dimplomatic cables, and other documents that had nothing to do with the IRaq or Afghan war effort.

Out of curiosity does this change anyones mind who were supporting Mr. Assange for his stated goal (end war)?

My personal opininion is he seems to have taken it upon himself to make the citizens of the US non existant in terms of changing our Government. Instead of doing it through elections (which we did), Assange is ursurping the vote for a direct effort to crash the Government.


edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: link error.

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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This first dump was a warning to the us. There is something resembling blackmail about this whole wikileaks deal that I can't put my finger on.
May be a banker trying to get rich, may be our government psi-ops agenda or it may be the work of some unknown elite group trying to force change. Time will tell. . .



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Well considering how aggressive American foreign policy impacts a substantial number of people throughout the world, I think it's a pretty good reason to give some reason and insight behind their motives. Stopping the war is a huge part of it, but being the lone superpower in a unipolar world puts the United States in a unique position--one with a lot of power and influence. Someone needs to make sure the U.S. is checked, because the U.N. isn't going to do it.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by MGriff
Well considering how aggressive American foreign policy impacts a substantial number of people throughout the world, I think it's a pretty good reason to give some reason and insight behind their motives. Stopping the war is a huge part of it, but being the lone superpower in a unipolar world puts the United States in a unique position--one with a lot of power and influence. Someone needs to make sure the U.S. is checked, because the U.N. isn't going to do it.


I and pretty much most Americans have no issue being checked. What got me was instead of him releasing specific documents that addressed and were in line with their stated goals, they chose to do something different. It made no sense to publish everything else under the sun, more so now because we are talking about hundreds of thousands of documents, which trying to find wrong doing in a heap that large is like finding a needle in a haystack.

The UN is a joke, and can barely keep control of itself, let alone countries. What really gets to me now is the fallout. People getting death threats other than assange), damage to intelligence gathering, diplomatic relations, etc, etc.

All supposedly done not for ending a problem, but for revenge. The moment a person is killed because of these releases makes their death trivial.

I guess the question now is whats worse? Being killed in comabt, or being killed because some guy got his panties in a wad and saught revenge.
edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Personally for me it is not so much wikileaks that i find suspicious it is the way the information is being disseminated.. one moment people are talking about how the MSM manipulate stories and are not to be trusted, while in this case the whole manipulation by the MSM is being overlooked and it is tho we now suddenly have a free press


Besides I have grave reservations as to why he is in the UK at all..

edit on 4/12/10 by thoughtsfull because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
WikiLeaks to publish files on aliens, UFOs

I am not addressing the UFO information, however the article above did publish something very intresting from Mr. Assange.

Asanges goal this entire time, as he maintained, was to expose info to end the war. I have argued the war was an excuse, and to me it appears it was correct.


Assange said his decision to dump top secret US documents on its website was revenge against "abusive elements of the United States government".


He also talked about how no one can really stop the spread of documents, stating if something happened to him there were other groups who had the key parts of the info. I wonder if this was what he was referring to about insurance.


In a clear warning to the authorities, he said the leaked American diplomatic cables, along with "significant material from the US and other countries", had been copied to more than 100,000 files. "If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically," he said.


The reson I point this out is because Mr. Assange has stated repeatedly this had nothing to do about anything but ending the wars. Another issue was the release of the dimplomatic cables, and other documents that had nothing to do with the IRaq or Afghan war effort.

Out of curiosity does this change anyones mind who were supporting Mr. Assange for his stated goal (end war)?

My personal opininion is he seems to have taken it upon himself to make the citizens of the US non existant in terms of changing our Government. Instead of doing it through elections (which we did), Assange is ursurping the vote for a direct effort to crash the Government.


edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: link error.

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


You are taking much to narrow a view about the cables being released - challenging secrecy and their ability to sustain it is what will stop the wars.

US government is wreaking havoc on the people of the world. US people have not stopped it. It is NOT a domestic issue alone - their crimes are affecting the world. It has to stop.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Personally for me it is not so much wikileaks that i find suspicious it is the way the information is being disseminated.. one moment people are talking about how the MSM manipulate stories and are not to be trusted, while in this case the whole manipulation by the MSM is being overlooked and it is tho we now suddenly have a free press


Besides I have grave reservations as to why he is in the UK at all..

edit on 4/12/10 by thoughtsfull because: (no reason given)



Exactly - it's like there's been some kind of 180 degree turn around - MSM is trustworthy and telling the truth, wikileaks is a terrorist and mustn't be trusted. As a psychological phenomenon it is astonishing....so many previously vociferous critics of the gubberment have jumped to the defense of them and their propaganda.

It's as though the truth, not a conspiracy theory to argue endlessly about on ATS, but the actual truth, when presented in black and white, is something they actually can't handle. I have been astounded to see this, but it is one more reason why I believe what WL is doing is essential.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Question then... If Assange wanted it stopped, why didnt he go through and find all of the information their was pertaining to criminal acts by the US and release that to the media? As days go by the process stories surounding Assange now has almost guaranteed that if any wrong doing is presented, the media will be to busy watching the arrest drama unfold in addition to interviewing members of Congress for their opinions.

I dont think the view on the Diplomatic Cables is too narrow, since the argument again can be applied that not all diplomatic cables related to what his goal was. Again he could have found cables that discuss or even corroborate the Iraq / Afghanistan abuse claims.

Instead we now have damaged relations with these countries for not other reason than revenge.

He could have challeneged the US on the world stage by presenting the info he had located.

Why didnt he do this?




edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by MGriff
Well considering how aggressive American foreign policy impacts a substantial number of people throughout the world, I think it's a pretty good reason to give some reason and insight behind their motives. Stopping the war is a huge part of it, but being the lone superpower in a unipolar world puts the United States in a unique position--one with a lot of power and influence. Someone needs to make sure the U.S. is checked, because the U.N. isn't going to do it.


I and pretty much most Americans have no issue being checked. What got me was instead of him releasing specific documents that addressed and were in line with their stated goals, they chose to do something different. It made no sense to publish everything else under the sun, more so now because we are talking about hundreds of thousands of documents, which trying to find wrong doing in a heap that large is like finding a needle in a haystack.

The UN is a joke, and can barely keep control of itself, let alone countries. What really gets to me now is the fallout. People getting death threats other than assange), damage to intelligence gathering, diplomatic relations, etc, etc.

All supposedly done not for ending a problem, but for revenge. The moment a person is killed because of these releases makes their death trivial.

I guess the question now is whats worse? Being killed in comabt, or being killed because some guy got his panties in a wad and saught revenge.
edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


Have you seen the panic and disarray and hysteria it is causing in the vipers nests around the world? They're spitting venom everywhere. That's what I call effective activism. They are under tremendous pressure right now...because they are being exposed. It doesn't matter what you expose, it's the act of exposing which has the effect.
edit on 4-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
Have you seen the panic and disarray and hysteria it is causing in the vipers nests around the world? That's what I call effective activism.


I think I am missing your point here. Can you give me some examples regarding the panic and hysteria to put it in context for me. Pressure applied to the US, or other countries?

Also question for you - You put in your last post that you suppoty Wiki for what they are doing? I am going to assume (correct me if I am wrong) that you favor the release of this information.

What good is the release of information when its not used to effect change?
edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


It's about making them all a matter of public record, regardless of how important one feels they are. I'll agree that it is a bit daunting trying to push through that amount of information, but I can't fault someone for releasing documents that never would have seen the light of day otherwise.

Well then if you feel it's a travesty that someone is killed because of this release, how do you feel about the millions of people killed as a result of American foreign policy decisions in the last fifty years? America itself is a far greater threat to a far larger number of people than these releases. Plenty of people want revenge on America for what our actions and choices are capable of causing the world over. We have done plenty of good in our history, but that is not an acceptable reason to conduct our affairs the way we do since 9-11.

Ending the war and revenge for the abusive American policy is an adequate reason in my opinion, because America has a unique economic, political, and military positions to impact a large portion of the world. America is not completely evil, there is evidence, but recently, our actions have been very poor at large and need to be exposed for whatever reason.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Assange is naive.


Our Government would kill every person with the Insurance file on their computer if they wanted to.

All they have to do is take some young kids in the Army and tell them they are part of a Special Ops Team to annihilate foreign spies in our country. They would kill Americans thinking they were "spies" or "terrorists" without batting an eye.

Our Government doesn't give one rats dairy aire about any of its citizens. We're all expendable in their grand scheme of things.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by wcitizen
Have you seen the panic and disarray and hysteria it is causing in the vipers nests around the world? That's what I call effective activism.


I think I am missing your point here. Can you give me some examples regarding the panic and hysteria to put it in context for me.


Calling him a terrorist, saying he should be killed, frantically searching to find a law he has broken so they can makehim a criminal, ridiculous rape charges being exaggerated beyond all proportion (see the thread on this), shutting down servers, pressurising paypal, amazon and others. Hillary phoning heads of countries to apologise.

When Bush was exposed as having caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and US military personnel through engaging in an illegal war, where was the furore? That has to be one of the biggest crimes and the biggest threats to national security in the history of US. Where was the outrage, the charges, the calls for persecution, the shredding of his reputation???????

Look, compare and observe. The vipers feel very threatened, that is the issue here, not national security.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


That is ridiculous. People all over the world have downloaded these files. US DOES NOT have carte blanche in countries other than their own, they cannot go to a foreign country and murder their citizens, that is an act of war.

The information is out there and they can't stop it. That's why they are so hysterical.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by MGriff
 


Valid points but US foreign policy, any forieign policy, are geared to offset / challenge another countries foriegn policy. The one exception I take is the comment about how many people us foreign policy is killed.

While I agree its a fair topic to discuss, but why do we always concentrate on the US, while ignoring other countries whose foreign policies are worse than ours?

If we want to hold our policies accountible, shouldnt we also hold other countries policies accountable as well?

I say in for a penny in for a pound. Taking the US to task for our polices is fine, provided we can hold other countries to that same standard. What we are seeing in the cable release are countries wanting us to go to war / attack countries in private, while condemning us in Public for our ctions.

To me this does support the case that not everything we do is based on unilateral action. The other topic, the number of people us policy has killed, is a bit off as well. We can use Iraq as an example - people are talking about the number of civilian deaths that occured when we invaded.

How come we ignore the stats on the number of people Hussein has killed? Foreign policy takes 2 or more to tango, and laying 100% of the blame at our doorsteps is problematic (for me anyways).

With the release of all of these US documents, again to get the truth out there, do we expect the complete equaton to work? I seriously doubt other countries around the world are going to release their files or diplomatic cables?

Since we are getting just the US documents, it is in and of itself one sided - The US version of events. Ignoring the other half of the equation (other countries who will not be releasing their info) does not represent the complete and total truth on matters.

I agree we need governments held accountible. When its based on revenge and not real change, it changes the dynamics of the problem, because now its no longer a humanitarian issue (I am going worse case since others will go best case).



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by wcitizen
Have you seen the panic and disarray and hysteria it is causing in the vipers nests around the world? That's what I call effective activism.


I think I am missing your point here. Can you give me some examples regarding the panic and hysteria to put it in context for me. Pressure applied to the US, or other countries?

Also question for you - You put in your last post that you suppoty Wiki for what they are doing? I am going to assume (correct me if I am wrong) that you favor the release of this information.

What good is the release of information when its not used to effect change?
edit on 4-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



Sorry, I missed replying to the last part of your post.

Yes, you're right, I do support this release of this information, and I do believe it will contribute to effecting change, and in fact, I believe it already is.

I don't see this release as being for the benefit of the public primarily...although that is certaiinly part of the objective. The primary target is the vipers nest...to release their iron grip on information control and to expose them as the hypocrites that they are and to start to prevent them from being able to enact their secret agenda behind closed doors.

As Assange says. With transparency a government just governs.

Wikileaks: Change we can believe in!




edit on 4-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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The US is hardly alone in doing "bad things" in the world. Any number of countries likely have similar things done diplomatically and militarily.

Think all of the things Russia has done in Chechnya, Georgia, etc has been in meeting with all the "rules of war" and no civilians have been harmed?

Think China has killed no innocents in Tibet?

I'll even use the ever popular ATS target - think Israel has done no wrong in Palestine ?

Of course they all have.

Think France, UK, Russia, China, etc don't engage in spying and diplomatic hanky panky.?

Of course they do - every country does.

So given that the US isn't the only country that ever does anything wrong, why focus only them?

I can only think of two reasons. One would be fear of what would happen if he leaked things about China, Russia or Israel. I feel pretty sure any of those countries would kill him. For all he says, he wants to stay alive. He is not afraid the US will kill him. The second, is a vendetta against the US for whatever reasons.

If he *really* wanted to "change the world" he would focus on all the major players and the wrong they commit. That might force everyone to change. To focus solely on the US represents a more personal mission. He doesn't want to change the world for the better - he just wants to hurt the US.

Say he is successful and the China or Russia becomes the top power in the world. Does he (or ATS) really think they will handle things better?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
Calling him a terrorist, saying he should be killed, frantically searching to find a law he has broken so they can makehim a criminal, ridiculous rape charges being exaggerated beyond all proportion (see the thread on this), shutting down servers, pressurising paypal, amazon and others.


Could the argument be made that since Assange opted to go after the US with his methods, that the US should not respond? i am not advocating killing this guy, but I do find it intresting with how its viewed. Assange is the one who decided he wanted to go down this road, and to think the US would just sit and watch is naieve.

Assange is attempting to apply pressure on the US Government. Did he not see that the US would return the favor and apply their own? While people can make the argument that the US is using underhanded techniques against Assange, I think people forget Assange used underhanded techniques against the US.

Criminal no - Suspect, both in the US and Sweden absolutely. He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, as is the US.

I know people still agree in principle with what he has done. Has anyone rethought their position based on the revenge statement?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MGriff
 


Valid points but US foreign policy, any forieign policy, are geared to offset / challenge another countries foriegn policy. The one exception I take is the comment about how many people us foreign policy is killed.

While I agree its a fair topic to discuss, but why do we always concentrate on the US, while ignoring other countries whose foreign policies are worse than ours?

If we want to hold our policies accountible, shouldnt we also hold other countries policies accountable as well?

I say in for a penny in for a pound. Taking the US to task for our polices is fine, provided we can hold other countries to that same standard. What we are seeing in the cable release are countries wanting us to go to war / attack countries in private, while condemning us in Public for our ctions.



Yes, and this is the point. The hypocrisy is exposed. The evil game gets messed up.
This is a plus for the US as well.



To me this does support the case that not everything we do is based on unilateral action. The other topic, the number of people us policy has killed, is a bit off as well. We can use Iraq as an example - people are talking about the number of civilian deaths that occured when we invaded.

How come we ignore the stats on the number of people Hussein has killed? Foreign policy takes 2 or more to tango, and laying 100% of the blame at our doorsteps is problematic (for me anyways).



The number of people killed by Saddam is totally irrelevant to the issue of the war. The US/UK invaded Iraq because of a lie about WMD. They have absolutely no right to invade a country just because they don't like that country's politics. The Iraq war was illegal, plain and simple and nothing will make that oik, neither US/UK had any right to be there at all, and they are guilty of massive war crimes.





With the release of all of these US documents, again to get the truth out there, do we expect the complete equaton to work? I seriously doubt other countries around the world are going to release their files or diplomatic cables?


Look, a US citizen was so sickened by what he or she was seeing that they leaked these documents.
If someone from a different country does the same, there will be leaks about a different country. If not there won't.

In any case, it's not just the US which is getting hit here - many countries' politicians are being exposed.

I honestly find it difficult to understand how many Americans keep saying 'we're not the only ones'. If you get burgled, do you expect the police to say - well, we can't arrest the burglar because there are plenty of other people carrying out burglaries, so it wouldn't be fair to arrest just this one?



Since we are getting just the US documents, it is in and of itself one sided - The US version of events. Ignoring the other half of the equation (other countries who will not be releasing their info) does not represent the complete and total truth on matters.


The US got exposed. Simple as. US corruption has an massive influence on the world, it's a good place to start.



I agree we need governments held accountible. When its based on revenge and not real change, it changes the dynamics of the problem, because now its no longer a humanitarian issue (I am going worse case since others will go best case).

And how are we going to get this secret government which pulls the strings to be 'accountable' unless the wall of secrecy is torn down bit by bit?

I don't underestand why you call this revenge? In that case, isn't indicting a burglar revenge also?
edit on 4-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

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posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Frogs
So given that the US isn't the only country that ever does anything wrong, why focus only them?

I can only think of two reasons. One would be fear of what would happen if he leaked things about China, Russia or Israel. I feel pretty sure any of those countries would kill him. For all he says, he wants to stay alive. He is not afraid the US will kill him. The second, is a vendetta against the US for whatever reasons.



I actually brought this part up in some other threads. Whenever we see an injustice in the World, we look at who is repsonsible for them, and we want to hold them accountible. The breakdown with this concept is people do not want to take the hard road.

Attempting to Hold China or N. Korea accountible, as we all see, is difficult verging on impossible. Instead of doing whats right, and taking the challenge and standing up to them, they ignore them as being to hard. They go after the US, imo, because we are a large target, we are a democratic nation with rule of law I know some of you will disagree with that so its cool) and people are able to criticise the Government without fear of being killed or imprisoned, as would happen in China.

There is nothing wrong with a moral crusade to save people. When the crusaders decide to pick and choose the battlefield that is based on the least amount of danger to themselves, the quest is irrelevant.

With great risk comes great rewards.



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