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Feminizing-uranium, fluoride & lithium in US water

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posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
Wow, interesting.

The funny thing is, since the US started fluordation in 1945ish, the life expectancy of the average American has only increased.

Fluoride is a natural occuring element commonly found in trace amounts in water, food, and soil.

edit on 3-12-2010 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)


Fluoride has nothing to do with "life expectancy". No one is worried about "death", when one talks about subjects like these. They're more worried about a deteriorating mind, loss of focus, and neurological diseases.

Fluoride is naturally occurring, yes. So is arsenic and lead. Saying it is "naturally occurring" is a failed rebuttal, and almost not worth arguing. That being said, naturally occurring "trace amounts" of fluoride is not a problem, it's rare that it is excessive in it's natural state, and is easily treated for municipal drinking supplies. The actual issue becomes that they add fluoride to the water, in amounts that typically exceed that of which you will find naturally. It is absurd, and banned in many countries all over the world.

Fluoride, is rated to be more toxic to man than lead. No one ever asks to have their water poisoned. I don't care how "small" the amounts are. I use water on a daily basis like everyone else. With extended use, "trace" easily becomes "excessive". If I wanted to poison myself, I am more than capable of doing that on my own.




posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


wow man ... seriously your doing my head in ... I almost have no words for you anymore.

i linked you all the info and you clearly didn't read any of it.

go back to the exact site that i babied up for you and read

5. Effect of high fluoride water supply on children's intelligence. Zhao, L.B., Liang, G.H., Zhang, D.N., and Wu, X.R. Fluoride 29 190-192 (1996)

6. Effect of fluoride exposure on intelligence in children. Li, X.S., Zhi, J.L., and Gao, R.O. Fluoride 28 (1995).

7. Effect of fluoride on the physiology of the pineal gland. Luke, J.A. Caries Research 28 204 (1994).

11b. Cytotoxicity, chromosome aberrations and unscheduled DNA synthesis in cultured human diploid fibroblasts. Tsutsui et al. Mutation Research 139 193-198 (1984).

11d. An increase in the number of Down's syndrome babies born to younger mothers in cities following fluoridation. Science and Public Policy 12 36-46 (1985).

12. A brief report on the association of drinking water fluoridation and the incidence of osteosarcoma among young males. Cohn, P.D. New Jersey Department of Health (1992).

11b. Cytotoxicity, chromosome aberrations and unscheduled DNA synthesis in cultured human diploid fibroblasts. Tsutsui et al. Mutation Research 139 193-198 (1984).

a. Exposure to high fluoride concentrations in drinking water is associated with decreased birth rates. Freni, S.C. J. Toxicol. Environ. Health 42 109-121 (1994)

n. Toxin-induced blood vessel inclusions caused by the chronic administration of aluminum and sodium fluoride and their implications for dementia. Isaacson, R.L., Varner, J.A., and Jensen, K. F. Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 825 152-166 (1997).

and thats just some of it ... wow man ... this is getting beyond a joke.

sigh ... seriously I've know 12 year olds that can comprehend things better then yourself, if you ask for source and i give it to you and you don't read them what the hell is the point of you even being here ???

edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
Wow, interesting.

The funny thing is, since the US started fluordation in 1945ish, the life expectancy of the average American has only increased.

Fluoride is a natural occuring element commonly found in trace amounts in water, food, and soil.

edit on 3-12-2010 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



Yeah some fluoride is natural ... its sodium fluoride that they put in the water which is a by product of the aluminum industry.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by SyphonX
 



The actual issue becomes that they add fluoride to the water, in amounts that typically exceed that of which you will find naturally. It is absurd, and banned in many countries all over the world.


"Typically" is being a bit misleading in my opinion, some natural sources can go into very high concentrations WAY over 1 PPM and actually causes health problems such as India, which has a lot of wells that have high concentrations of the naturally occurring calcium fluoride. There is no real difference between "natural" fluoride and added fluoride either way though.

Also, I don't recall it being "banned" in many countries. I know a lot of them don't fluoridate their water, they fluoridate their salt. For instance:


Salt fluoridation was introduced iin Switzerland in 1955 and it is now estimated that fluoridated salt is available to nearly 200 million people worldwide, including Europe, Central and South America and the Caribbean.

It is the preferred method of fluoridation on mainland Europe and is widely available in France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Czech Republic and Slovakia.



National Fluoride Information Centre



I don't care how "small" the amounts are


You really should, as toxicity is dose-dependent. As I posted earlier, nearly anything can become toxic at certain levels. Once you realize this, the real question becomes what are the effects of fluoride at 1 PPM in a water supply, which have shown to be perfectly safe.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi

Also, I don't recall it being "banned" in many countries. I know a lot of them don't fluoridate their water, they fluoridate their salt. For instance:


Salt fluoridation was introduced iin Switzerland in 1955 and it is now estimated that fluoridated salt is available to nearly 200 million people worldwide, including Europe, Central and South America and the Caribbean.

It is the preferred method of fluoridation on mainland Europe and is widely available in France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Czech Republic and Slovakia.


So not only do you not read information presented to you, you class fluoride in salt which you can pass by in the supermarket and not buy as the same thing as Sodium fluoride in your drinking water ...

Dude seriously ... come on ... now your just acting like a crazy irrational. They have a choice whether or not to ingest poison ... the people who's municipal water supplies are loaded with it anyways do not.

thats exactly the same as saying ... you can buy a knife in a super market compared to some one stabbing you with one against your will.
edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
You really should, as toxicity is dose-dependent. As I posted earlier, nearly anything can become toxic at certain levels. Once you realize this, the real question becomes what are the effects of fluoride at 1 PPM in a water supply, which have shown to be perfectly safe.


Everything can be "considered safe" in small doses. I'm really tired of this argument, frankly. I don't care if it's 1 PPM or 1 PPB. I am not drinking sodium fluoride, if I have the option otherwise. Let alone anything else I personally consider dangerous.

Your argument is literally, "Yeah it's a poison, but you're only drinking it in small amounts." Astonishing. Well I suppose if you say the same thing over, and over, and over, and over again, then people will believe it or stop questioning. Even learning institutions, what an amazing work of propaganda.

Furthermore, what stake do you have in defending water fluoridation, honestly? You admit that it is indeed hazardous, but refute it by claiming it's "small doses". Why any doses? Do you really believe that "dental health" is a concern in a country that profits off of disease, and denying medical care to the weak? I wish I could some of what you're drinking.

edit on 3-12-2010 by SyphonX because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
There is no real difference between "natural" fluoride and added fluoride either way though.


Seriously .... omg ... keep the lies coming ... your work is getting more and more credible by the post ...

SODIUM FLUORIDE

Sodium Fluoride molecule

Sodium fluoride is an ionic compound, dissolving to give separated Na+ and F− ions. It crystallizes in the cubic (sodium chloride) motif where both Na+ and F− occupy octahedral coordination sites.

The mineral form of NaF, villiaumite, is moderately rare. It is known from plutonic nepheline syenite rocks.

Production

NaF is prepared by neutralizing hydrofluoric acid or hexafluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6), byproducts of the production of superphosphate fertilizer. Neutralizing agents include sodium hydroxide and sodium carbonate. Alcohols are sometimes used to precipitate the NaF:
HF + NaOH → NaF + H2O

From solutions containing HF, sodium fluoride precipitates as the bifluoride salt NaHF2. Heating the latter releases HF and gives NaF.
HF + NaF ⇌ NaHF2


CALCIUM FLUORIDE

Calcium Fluoride molecule

Calcium fluoride is the inorganic compound with the formula CaF2. This ionic compound of calcium and fluorine occurs naturally as the mineral fluorite (also called fluorspar). It is the source of most of the world's fluorine. This insoluble solid adopts a cubic structure wherein calcium is coordinated to eight fluoride anions and each F− ion is surrounded by four Ca2+ ions. Although the pure material is colourless, the mineral is often deeply coloured due to the presence of F-centers.

Preparation

The mineral fluorspar is abundant, widespread, and mainly of interest as a precursor to HF. Thus, little motivation exists for the preparation of CaF2. High purity CaF2 produced by treating calcium carbonate with hydrofluoric acid:
CaCO3 + 2 HF → CaF2 + CO2 + H2O



edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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most homes outside the metro area and in more rural communities have their own well, and if you really want the best water it comes from an artesian well.

life is very paranoid in the big cities... I would think they would be able to spike the bottled water easier imo.


edit on 12/3/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by King Loki
 



i linked you all the info and you clearly didn't read any of it.


You told me to read the EPA's research, currently, the EPA and those who have reviewed the EPA's standards realize that fluoride at 1 ppm has negligible harmful effects. Honestly, you aren't going to be swayed by evidence at this point, you're just repeating what the anti-fluoride sites tell you to.

Really...


sigh ... seriously I've know 12 year olds that can comprehend things better then yourself, if you ask for source and i give it to you and you don't read them what the hell is the point of you even being here ???


Let's read a couple you linked shall we?


5. Effect of high fluoride water supply on children's intelligence. Zhao, L.B., Liang, G.H., Zhang, D.N., and Wu, X.R. Fluoride 29 190-192 (1996)



Abstract: In Shanxi Province, China, children living in the endemic fluoride village of Sima (water supply F=4.12 mg/L) located near Xiaoyi City had average IQ (97.69) significantly lower (p



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by King Loki
 

this poster whyhi has very simmiliar posts like ecoparity who has been on hjere with derangement actually believing their own lies regardless of amount of evidence shoved in their face! ANYONE claiming arguments for theuse of poison in our water has a real agendaand would love to debunk jesse ventura and others too bad they can't your dealing with a nutcase!



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
Yeah, and you have literally no idea what you're linking. Fluoride ions in calcium fluoride and fluoride ions in sodium fluoride ARE THE SAME FLUORIDE IONS whey disassociate.

Seriously, fluoride ions are fluoride ions, go back to school.



Sigh I give up ... you just cant teach a monkey. Your the type of person who would argue for the rest of your life that 2+2 = 5 rather then 4.

Have fun being yourself ... cause it must suck.

If calcium fluoride and sodium fluoride are exactly the same thing as you claim ... why don't hey just put calcium fluoride in the water rather then sodium fluoride ??

The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from a research chemist by the name of Charles Perkins. He writes:

"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, "The Truth about Water Fluoridation", to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. In the 1930's Hitler and the German Nazis envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient light lobotomy].

I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years' research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine--any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically."
CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October 1954.
edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by SyphonX
 



Your argument is literally, "Yeah it's a poison, but you're only drinking it in small amounts."


Riddle me this, would you say me re-wording your statement to "Yeah, this substance is a poison, but only if you're drinking in large amounts." is an accurate description of what you said? Honest question, did you mean "if you're only drinking it in large amounts?, because if so, you basically agreed with what I'm getting at.

But yes, the universally accepted way of determining toxicity is what my argument is based upon.



Furthermore, what stake do you have in defending water fluoridation, honestly?


I don't have anything to gain from it other than my attempt to combat pseudoscience which can dramatically impact public life and can easily manipulate people that are not aware of the actual information regarding said subject(s). A lot of this has been happening up north here.


You admit that it is indeed hazardous, but refute it by claiming it's "small doses". Why any doses?


Again, toxicity. But "why any doses" is simple, it improves teeth in several ways and is safe at the current concentrations.
edit on 3-12-2010 by Whyhi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by King Loki
 



If calcium fluoride and sodium fluoride are exactly the same thing as you claim ... why don't hey just put calcium fluoride in the water rather then sodium fluoride ??


Sodium fluoride disassociates (Breaks apart into fluoride ions and sodium ions due to lower solubility) easier than calcium fluoride does.

edit on 3-12-2010 by Whyhi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


I like it how you skip over the things that ruin your argument ... thats the funniest part of your rebuttals.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Whyhi
 


This letter was written by a brilliant (and objectively honest) scientist named Dr. E.H. Bronner. Dr. Bronner was a nephew of the great Albert Einstein, served time in a WWII prison camp and wrote the following letter printed in the Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:

"It appears that the citizens of Massachusetts are among the 'next' on the agenda of the water poisoners.

"There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless intellectual parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic ---- from within if they can, according to their plan --- for their own possession."

"The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us."

"Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration. As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. DON'T DO IT!!"

"Even in very small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most effective rat-killer. Sodium Fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body; whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it."

"Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting 'dental health', fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How then can it be called a 'health plan'? What's behind it?"

"That any so-called 'Doctors' would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity!

Signed: Dr. E.H. Bronner, Research Chemist, Los Angeles
edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by King Loki
 


Such as what? You skipped over my EVERY post and throw some other random claim in like "The Nazi's used it."

Like literally, your posts are either you just linking things you don't understand, changing the question all together, or just copy & pasting massive amounts of junk and acting like it somehow has any merit

Seriously, are you like 13 years old and have never been to a chemistry class before.

Unless you have a legitimate question / claim to make, I'm done with you, it's like talking to a retarded wall.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by King Loki
 


Such as what? You skipped over my EVERY post and throw some other random claim in like "The Nazi's used it."

Like literally, your posts are either you just linking things you don't understand, changing the question all together, or just copy & pasting massive amounts of junk and acting like it somehow has any merit

Seriously, are you like 13 years old and have never been to a chemistry class before.

Unless you have a legitimate question / claim to make, I'm done with you, it's like talking to a retarded wall.



Your posts were incoherent ramblings where you picked out single sentences that slightly fed your argument and skipped over everything that proved you 100% wrong ... you have no idea what your talking about and claim you know more then thousands of doctors and chemists ... its called being delusional bud

hahaha yeah run away when you start loosing ... nice ... well if I'm a retarded wall you just got totally owned by one ... how sad for you lolololol
edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by King Loki
 


Yeah, I'm "loosing" to someone who doesn't understand that fluoride ions are the same as fluoride ions. Go back to school.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by King Loki
 


Yeah, I'm "loosing" to someone who doesn't understand that fluoride ions are the same as fluoride ions. Go back to school.


Sodium Fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body; whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it."

Dr. E.H. Bronner, Research Chemist, Los Angeles

... tut tut tut once again skipping over information that doesn't feed your irrational argument.

anything else .. you done yet ?? would you like to lie about some more stuff ???
edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by King Loki
 


Yeah, I'm "loosing" to someone who doesn't understand that fluoride ions are the same as fluoride ions. Go back to school.


This was proven in a study called, "Comparative Toxicity of Fluorine Compounds." After this study was completed, this statement was made: " ... this meant a daily intake of approximately 40 mg/kg of fluorine from sodium fluoride as compared with 3400 mg/kg from calcium fluoride. Therefore, from the standpoint of lethal concentrations and amount of fluorine necessary to cause growth inhibition, wide differences in toxicity of some of the compounds of fluoride were noted." (See 3-1: Industrial and Engineering Chemistry. July 1934, page 797). In other words, industrial waste (sodium fluoride) is 85 times more toxic than natural calcium fluoride. Both of them contain fluoride, but they are totally different compounds.


.... victory dance time ... ohhhh yeah ... would you like another sir ?? ... no ... I didn't think so.


edit on 3/12/10 by King Loki because: (no reason given)



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