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IllumInati/Freemasons are one and the same.

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posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


Blah Blah Blah thats all I hear and or see when you type somthing. Your a broken record.




posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
You've got to be kidding me with this crap!

Not only have you hit every other active thread and smeared it with your BS. Now theres a whole thread dedicated to the rantings of a fool.

Sometimes, I seriously worry about humanity.

I'll save you the pain of opening this can of worms, because These exact words have been said 1 million effing times on this web sight. JUST SEARCH IT.

Govenor, isn't it easier to just live and let live. No mason here is forcing Masonry on you, yet you keep firing away at us with the bull snot. It's ridiculous.
edit on 3-12-2010 by W3RLIED2 because: i said a bad word sorry mods
How can you tell some one that thier talking BS? The last time I checked people have the right to thier own thoughts and or oppions. So it sounds to me like he hit a nerve or two of yours and others like you. Or you would not be bashing him every time he typs somthing. Grow Up.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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As I've said in other threads, stuff like this is part of the dialectic to muddy the waters of who really is involved in the conspiracy. There is a conspiracy and they do use the Masonic system to some degree but it's not the Freemasons so one could say that all illuminati are Masons but not all Masons are illuminati. But in fact, the illuminati are gathered from the higher levels of many secret societies, not just the Masons. And not all secret societies are evil just because they are secret. Secret societies and mystery schools have existed for thousands of years as a way of communicating higher spiritual truths in service to others, communicated and understood through the use of symbols and numbers. Some, like the illuminati subvert and supress the knowledge of those truths in service to self. And yes they do use black magic but they are not Satanists in the popularly thought of way. They rely on people like the OP to confuse and cloud so as to cloak their true nature. So go ahead, continue to spit out threads like this and you are doing exactly what the illuminati want you to do, continuing the dialectic.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


you seem to think the Illuminati is an evil group out for wold domination. What changed them from the original ideals? What made them go from helping mankind be free to discover the wonders of the universe, and be free from tyrannical governments, to trying to be a tyrannical entity themselves? And how is it that they have remained so secret over the last two hundred years, yet a few members of ATS (you included) seem to have intimate knowledge of them? Is there some newspaper that the rest of us don't get?



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


What makes me so sure is paying attention to study and patterns as well as talking to someone that has been involved in the illuminati in the past. And they haven't ever really changed and go back longer than 200 years. Over the years they have had many names, in ancient Egypt and Sumeria they were known as the Brotherhood of the Snake (this is information confirmed by rather than taken from Micheal Tsarion who is a well known researcher.) Anybody can have access to this "newspaper" if they were willing to pay attention. I just have been paying attention that's all. People can even have access to the information the person I spoke to gave me as there are several audio interviews on Youtube of different ex-illuminati that is pretty close to the information given to me by the person I spoke to (prior to youtube's existence btw.) What makes me so sure? As a good researcher I make sure I verify all my information from several unrelated sources before I talk about them. You should be getting to know me by now

What do I mean by patterns in this case? Check out my post in this thread and then tell me that the NWO isn't a real agenda by real evil people.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 5-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: punctuation

edit on 5-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: clarity

edit on 5-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: clarity



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet
What do I mean by patterns in this case? Check out my post in this thread and then tell me that the NWO isn't a real agenda by real evil people.
I don't think anyone here is saying that the NWO isn't a real agenda by real evil people... I think what we're trying to do is force people to differentiate WHO those real evil people are instead of lumping them all together.

Is the Bilderberg Group up to something? Probably.
The Trilateral Commssion? Sure.
The Council on Foreign Relations? Uh huh.
The attendees of the Bohemian Grove? Yep.

But I firmly believe these are 4 different groups, EACH with their own agenda. There are probably more as well.
And yes, there might be a few people who are in more than one group, there could even be a few individuals who are in ALL the groups, but I honestly don't believe the overlap between them is so great that you could lump them all together.

The Bavarian Illuminati was founded in 1776 and dissolved in 1785. I think what Network Dude is trying to do is to get you to use a different name, because the groups today have nothing in common with the group 200+ years ago. (And the group 200+ years ago had nothing to do with the ancient groups either... If there were some over-arching millennia old movement, they'd have won a long time ago... I think the reason we are where we are today is because there are different groups, in competition with each other, and that lets the rest of humanity have a fighting chance.)



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Some of your post I agree with, some I don't. All of those groups you mentioned are but arms of the Beast, not the Beast itself. They do have ties and interrelations both with each other and with the ancient groups. However I think your point below is accurate.



I think the reason we are where we are today is because there are different groups, in competition with each other, and that lets the rest of humanity have a fighting chance


My current direction of study is alternative history. I recently ran across an interpretation of the US Revolutionary Way as a battle between the French, British, and Spanish branches of the illuminati jockeying for who would be in power and have what in the colonies with the Rothschilds using the Hessian soldiers as mercenaries to make sure everyone was following the rules. To be sure they are in competition with each other and sometimes work at cross purposes if it serves a certain agenda-they do operate out of service to self after all. But it's kind of like one snake on Medusa's head having a fight with another snake on her head. Same head.

And your point is correct that to call them Illuminati is as confusing as calling it a Freemasonic conspiracy. How about we just call them the Dark Ones With Many Names and Many Tentacles Who Intend To Enslave Humanity. Either way, the NWO is a result unless people wake up.

edit on 5-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: Add last paragraph

edit on 5-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: add word



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


I think I have been consumed with the need to let people know how irritating it is to have the name Illuminati confused with NWO. It's a character flaw, I don't see it being solved anytime soon, so I apologize in advance for my future rants on the subject.

Illuminati was a name that was coined by Adam Weishaput.

It was not a term used before that time unless you have documentation proving otherwise. The group was formed by people of like mind who despised the way the church was corrupting the minds of the populace. The church was forbidding people to think. The Illuminati assembled and plotted to fix this. Their means weren't peaceful, but were effective. Since they didn't have anywhere near absolute power, they were found out, and forced to disband. If they still exist, they are very secretive. So much so that you nor I, nor anyone else on ATS knows anything about them today. Anything to the contrary is pure speculation.

Now, I think everyone here agrees that the bad man is real. He does intend to rape our resources and pillage our minds for his gain. He seeks ultimate power. He (the bad man) is abstract to us, because we don't know who they are. So we try to humanize them by giving them a name. Sadly, the name most uninformed people chose is Illuminati. they are the NWO, The powers that be, the CFR, the Trilateral commission, any group that we don't know what they do.

I like the term TPTB. (the powers that be) It lumps all the ones we don't know in with the ones we do. And it doesn't sound stupid. Consider this post a plea to all to discontinue the use of the term Illuminati for the wrong reasons. thanks for your time and have a nice day.



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I will be more conscious of that in the future. You are right to a degree. I've liked TPTB too since reading it in connection with the Web-bot stuff. Again, the whole confusion in names is part of the dialectic to keep the real nasties (or TPTB if you will) better cloaked. Excellent point.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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I don't know much about secret societies because i do not belong to any but i believe they are one in the same. i also believe they are based upon the values the Templars up held.

Now, i would like to ask any Free-mason who reads this thread, Do you actually believe in a god/anti-god? Or do u have your own god? such as The Grand Architect of the so called Father of Understanding

I'm under the impression most Masons (maybe of just higher ranks, because the know more as they climb) are athiests



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by Dissent
 


we all believe in the God of our respective religion. I am pretty sure he is the same guy no matter what he is called. I like to refer to him as "God". All masons must believe in a higher power. No mason can be an atheist. The "higher ups" believe in God as well. (whomever the higher ups are)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 07:08 AM
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Learn where money is formed and different cultures beliefs. We all support life. If you are a Freemason or NWO.

All people are positive internally but are led by the externals to believe other wise. Externally we are all Fire which is negative. Fuel, Heat & Oxygen. Internally we are water which is positive. We are living batterys! This is how all religions were born!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by andy1033
 




Maybe satan has made us all satanists.


Maybe, but God made Satan, so he must have wanted evil to exist in the first place.. paradox indeed, perhaps it's best to just live the best you can and not concern your self with what a "Satanist" is or isn't, and judge by others actions instead.

There might be rich and powerful Masons, I pretty sure there are .. personally, I don't care.. they don't reflect me or the organization I belong to, and their membership would insubstantial to the greater plan anyways wouldn't it? By some means or another the rich and the powerful will rule us, that's Human nature and can't be undone. It's just ignorant to go on a witch hunt for the reason "why" or "how" instead of accepting that it is what it is because that's how it always has been.. Men have been gathering power and building wealth and separating by class and conquering the World since formed our first nations.


Before Satan became as we know it. He was Gods most beautiful Angel. When he and some other angels tried to take over. He was cast down to Earth. As I'm sure you know that God could have just done away with him. Instead he choose to punish Satan and his Demons. For as we all know that The day will come that God and his Army of Angels will fight Satan and his Army of Demons. In which Jesus Christ will prevail.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by andy1033
 




Maybe satan has made us all satanists.


Maybe, but God made Satan, so he must have wanted evil to exist in the first place.. paradox indeed, perhaps it's best to just live the best you can and not concern your self with what a "Satanist" is or isn't, and judge by others actions instead.

There might be rich and powerful Masons, I pretty sure there are .. personally, I don't care.. they don't reflect me or the organization I belong to, and their membership would insubstantial to the greater plan anyways wouldn't it? By some means or another the rich and the powerful will rule us, that's Human nature and can't be undone. It's just ignorant to go on a witch hunt for the reason "why" or "how" instead of accepting that it is what it is because that's how it always has been.. Men have been gathering power and building wealth and separating by class and conquering the World since formed our first nations.


Before Satan became as we know it. He was Gods most beautiful Angel. When he and some other angels tried to take over. He was cast down to Earth. As I'm sure you know that God could have just done away with him. Instead he choose to punish Satan and his Demons. For as we all know that The day will come that God and his Army of Angels will fight Satan and his Army of Demons. In which Jesus Christ will prevail.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Ultra7
 

If God is all powerful, why does he need an heavenly army?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Ultra7

Before Satan became as we know it. He was Gods most beautiful Angel. When he and some other angels tried to take over. He was cast down to Earth. As I'm sure you know that God could have just done away with him. Instead he choose to punish Satan and his Demons. For as we all know that The day will come that God and his Army of Angels will fight Satan and his Army of Demons. In which Jesus Christ will prevail.


So in your version of reality, Heaven and God haven't transcended the need to kill for purposes of superiority? I am glad I don't go to your church. The God I believe in has no need to kill anyone. Only to love them. Maybe you should leave your church.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I guess i agree with Ultra7 more then i do with you on the god situation, i believe when Jesus returns he isn't returning to save but returning with a sword to vanquish the anti-christ who speaks many blasphemies on the most high, not saying that people wont be saved while this is going on but this time it's not Jesus/Gods prime objective.


That being said i do believe God/Jesus is love the utmost love agape love that my friend is true....



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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Maybe off topic and I promise I am not trying to be facetious but can anyone explain to me why they feel the need or necessity to become a mason or join any of these groups / cults / ritualistic type organisations.

I just don't understand it at all or indeed the benefits.

Do freemasons for example do anything for the greater good or do anything to improve the world we live in or what pupose do they serve?




edit on 8-12-2010 by pmexplorer because: spelling

edit on 8-12-2010 by pmexplorer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by pmexplorer
 


Many of them, including the Freemasons, perform large amounts of charity work. In fact that's their primary purpose to help the community around them.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by Govenor
 


I find it hilarious that many of the mason apologists who appear in this thread and claim no connection between Masonry and Luciferianism also have made posts in threads about Alistair Crowley detailing their interest in his works.
Do a search and see their hypocrisy, I mean comments.




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