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Fox News Guest Threatened For Opposing Dream Act Amnesty

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posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Right,

Then what do you think the Government should do with kids who were brought here and who had no say in such decision? What do you think we should do with them? Most of whom do not even know their home country and only speak English, got their High School diploma or GED by the way.

Just send them back without thinking twice about it? Send them back to countries they don't even know?

Seems like that is the new mindset of most Americans nowadays which is VERY sad.

Let me apologize I should have directed this question to everyone not just you.
edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


Muse, I don't have the answer and won't pretend to. Indeed it is unfair and even heart breaking to see that it is no fault of those kids. On the other hand we have limited seatings in schools and we can't just say to our citizens oh well tough luck, those other kids matter more than you do.

The parents of these illegal kids had more than enough time to come clean and become a legal citizen and chose not to. They knew full well that their kids would run into trouble in the future by not being legal. If it were a choice between my kid and theirs, I'm sorry but mine comes first. Sad that the world is this way and shouldn't be but that is what we are up against.

I have personally seen legal, qualified citizens turned away from jobs and illegals taken instead because it was cheaper for the company. I have seen illegals get free medical and other benefits while some citizens made 2.oo over the poverty line and got nothing. One was an elderly woman 87 years old with tears in her eyes. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound heartless and it always bothers me to come into these threads. Always! It's just that I have seen too much. I have seen too many times where someone illegal had all their needs met and saw so many citizens fall through the cracks.

With millions of unemployed people and jobs being so hard to find, now we have to speak spanish just to get a simple factory job here in our own country. At every turn, we have people struggling and their lives falling apart.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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"The Center for Immigration Studies says passage of the DREAM Act would cost American taxpayers at least $6.2 billion per year. According to CIS, at least 1.2 million illegal aliens would enroll in public colleges and universities, qualifying for in-state tuition rates. The average $6,000 in-state tuition benefit would be subsidized by the taxpayers."

Taken from: www.numbersusa.com...



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Night Star
"The Center for Immigration Studies says passage of the DREAM Act would cost American taxpayers at least $6.2 billion per year. According to CIS, at least 1.2 million illegal aliens would enroll in public colleges and universities, qualifying for in-state tuition rates. The average $6,000 in-state tuition benefit would be subsidized by the taxpayers."

Taken from: www.numbersusa.com...


Night Star, I think this comes down to "who do you trust the most?"

Here is the full report from the Congressional Budget Office, this report was released yesterday and states that DREAM act would slash the deficit by $1.4 billion. Basically that DREAM act would not be a drain on your tax dollars. www.cbo.gov...

Also NumbersUSA is a right wing organization.


edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


Numbers took that particular information from The Center For Immigration Studies. And here is some more info.

"•Advocates of the DREAM Act argue that it will significantly increase tax revenue, because with a college education, recipients will earn more and pay more in taxes over their lifetime. However, several factors need to be considered when evaluating this argument:


◦Any hoped-for tax benefit is in the long-term, and will not help public institutions deal with the large influx of new students the act creates in the short-term.


◦Given limited spaces at public institutions, there will almost certainly be some crowding out of U.S. citizens ─ reducing their lifetime earnings and tax payments."


"•The DREAM Act does not provide funding to states and counties to cover the costs it imposes. Since enrollment and funding are limited at public institutions, the act’s passage will require some combination of tuition increases, tax increases to expand enrollment, or a reduction in spaces available for American citizens at these schools."



cis.org...



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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If what they said is considered a fatwah then damn, I've called thousands of fatwah's in my life.

I also haven't lived up to a single one, because anyone who thinks any of those comments were meant literally and not simply an insult would really benefit from a shock of electricity to their head. OOPS! Just called another fatwah


Also, anyone who has ever said they would shove something up another persons ass is apparently threatening anal sodomy.

Seriously people? Are we this stupid now a days? And this is apparently coming from the crowd crying about political correctness. Smell that people? It's not just the bull # in the article or in the OP and other peoples post; it's the smell of hypocrisy. And boy howdy is it ripe.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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We seem to have drifted a bit from the original post topic into the discussions about the Dream Act and the good and bad of immigration.

However, I just don't feel ok with myself if I don't denounce nutjobbery when confronted with it.

Later on in the article linked by the OP it gives the following...


Mr. Porter Corn, the President of Immigration Clearinghouse, posted the following comments beneath the video accompanied by William Gheen's home address. Corn later removed the comment when ALIPAC notified activists of the threats but screen shots can be seen in the evidence thread provided here.

"Someone should put a grenade up Willy's teddy bear ass and pull the pin." -- posted at 8:30pm EST Nov. 30, 2010 on Youtube by Borderbandit54 aka Mr. Porter Corn of Laredo Texas / President of Immigration Clearinghouse.


Apparently a 2nd threat was also posted the following day.

A couple of points -

First - 2 threats does not not a fatwa make. The terminology was used by site linked in the OP to sensationalize the story.

Second - Posting death threats about someone who doesn't agree with you does not make you seem credible. However, it does make you seem like a grade A nutjob who can't stand that someone might hold a different opinion.

A nutjob is a nutjob regardless of if they are on the left or right side of the fence.
A few days ago someone posted an example of a right wing nutjob. This guy happens to be a left wing nutjob.

Honestly, if each side would denounce their own nutjobs in addition to denouncing the other sides nutjobs the world would be a far better place.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by Pervius
DOD is pushing for the Dream Act because they need funding.

They think they will get a couple hundred thousand illegal immigrants to enter college with the promise of some Federal Aid/State tuition....and enslave those people with hundreds of thousands of college debt.

They think they will get revenue from that so DOD can sail it's 11 carrier battle groups. Those kids will flee the country with their degrees and how you going to collect on someone who disappeared?

Think they could collect from a surgeon who pops up in Guatemala? Other countries will see they have degrees from the US and have them change their names and issue them local degrees in the new name since they know what they are doing...as long as they work there for X amount of years.

DOD isn't exactly the smartest entity on the block. They'll do whatever they can to keep them going. Even if it's the next big scandal that bankrupts us even further. As long as we can get 1 more year having our Generals living like Kings....who are you to stop them?
edit on 3-12-2010 by Pervius because: spellin


Were did you get all this from? Are there some links about this? Pervious the things you are saying don't seem to fit together. You think the DREAM act has something to do with the DOD sailing carrier battle groups? That would be amazing if it is true. Do you have anything I can read or did you just deduce this?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by stuncrazy

are you out your freakin mind? every immigrant regardless of origination has been proud of their culture... even to this day. the irish are proud to be irish, the same goes for the scotts, etc... and this is generation after generation after generation and so on and so forth... what a blatantly bigoted comment of you sir. every man and women should be proud of their culture it is what makes us individuals and made the USA the wonderful place it has potential to be.
There is a difference between pride in your heritage, and refusal to assimilate. Can you truly not see that?


i weep for this country and what it has become... what was once glorified here is now shunned..

I could not agree more. We can no longer celebrate Christmas openly like we used to. Now it is "happy holidays". Our "president" celebrates ramadan, but ignores our American Holidays. Where are the old turkey shoots? Where are the Shriners? What happened to giving the Medal of Honor for killing the enemy? Why is it ok to defile Jesus, but not Mohammad?


TPTB are winning and your too busy blaming your problems on people that want nothing more then to better their lives and that of their familes.
Come here, but do it the right way.Get in line behind everyone else. We NEED control of our borders.We need to round up everyone who is here illegally and send them back home. We need to make English(or American anyway
) the official language of the USA. Why do I have to push any number to converse in the national language of the country in which I live? If I moved to Mexico, I would expect to have to learn Spanish. If you come here, learn English. The Germans who came here did, same with the Italians, the Poles, the Greeks etc...


it truly is a sad day.
Again, I could not agree more.
edit on 4-12-2010 by sonofliberty1776 because: Put in 1 to many question marks



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by Night Star
 


Right,

Then what do you think the Government should do with kids who were brought here and who had no say in such decision? What do you think we should do with them? Most of whom do not even know their home country and only speak English, got their High School diploma or GED by the way.

Just send them back without thinking twice about it? Send them back to countries they don't even know?

Seems like that is the new mindset of most Americans nowadays which is VERY sad.

Let me apologize I should have directed this question to everyone not just you.
edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/3/2010 by muse7 because: (no reason given)
Yes, send them home. They are not citizens.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Source - The American Resistance Foundation
How many illegal aliens in the US



CNN's Lou Dobbs, a highly educated authority on the illegal immigration crisis in our nation regularly uses a figure of "20 million" when discussing the number of illegal aliens on his broadcast "Lou Dobbs Tonight" (Monday - Friday 6 pm & 11 pm eastern time, CNN, see March 2, 2005 transcript).


Maybe more,


In agreement with Senator McCain, we believe that an increase of 10,000 total additional illegal aliens added to the United States population each day. This reflects figures that include illegal aliens successfully entering our nation combined with those who overstay their visas. We are of the educated opinion that we are conservatively low in our estimation.


By that logic we get another 3.5 million per year. So let's be conservative and say 30 million total.

Now we are going to elaborate on what is required to do this,

Ok we need to round up, detain. process, deport roughly 10% of all the people in the US,
No exceptions, just due process.

You tell me, if you want to of course,

Who does it

How long approximately

How much in cost

Basic logistics.

Economic impact.

You can just give rough estimates and short rationales.

I think it can't be done, But I'm no expert,
I'm just asking for a sensible plan, not asking you to write a manifesto.

What do you think?

Best

Ziggy



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by ziggystrange


In agreement with Senator McCain, we believe that an increase of 10,000 total additional illegal aliens added to the United States population each day. This reflects figures that include illegal aliens successfully entering our nation combined with those who overstay their visas. We are of the educated opinion that we are conservatively low in our estimation.


By that logic we get another 3.5 million per year. So let's be conservative and say 30 million total.

Now we are going to elaborate on what is required to do this,

Ok we need to round up, detain. process, deport roughly 10% of all the people in the US,
No exceptions, just due process.




Who does it
I believe that with my very harsh proposal enacted many, if not most, will self evacuate. The rest are handled by law enforcement, ICE etc...


How long approximately
Too many variables for a firm estimate. How long to get the new laws in effect? How long to even get the current ones enforced?


How much in cost
A lot. Billions I am sure. How much do we waste now educating them, caring for them when they are sick, giving them welfare benefits etc... What about the hidden costs of depressed wages and higher unemployment among citizens? Don't give me this BS about "Americans don't want those jobs". What you really mean is "Americans don't want those jobs at those wages".


Basic logistics.
We already have to heavily subsidize Amtrak. So basically we set aside cars to transfer illegals to the Texas/Mexican border since that is how many of them came here. Once across the border, well they got themselves there to get here, they can get themselves back. Break the law, suffer the consequences.


Economic impact.
I am not an economist, but less than the money we shoveled into the TARP rabbit hole. Eventually, the states and local communities would realize savings from no longer having to support the illegal population.


I think it can't be done, But I'm no expert,
I am no expert either. But if we never try, we certainly will never succeed. We tried amnesty once back in the 1980's. That definitely did not work, so time for something else. Ignoring it certainly will not work.


I'm just asking for a sensible plan, not asking you to write a manifesto.
LOL, thanks for that.


What do you think?

Best

Ziggy


When suffering from a flood in your home, first you turn off the water. So,

Step 1, Secure the borders and stop the influx. Allow "decisive engagement" where needed, including "Lethal Force!". Remove all "aid stations and water stations. Allow the ranchers on the border to defend their property without fear of reprisal.

Step 2. Require all employers to use E-Verify. Fine those that do not in seriously PUNITIVE amounts. Require all landlords, banks, schools, and Government agencies to do the same before renting apartments, opening accounts, enrolling students or giving any government services and/or benefits.

Without access to jobs and government handouts, I believe most will leave voluntarily.

Step 3. Require all law enforcement agencies to verify immigration status during any stop for another offense, ie speeding, dui, etc... In other words, something like the Arizona law.

Step 4. Collect a 50% tax on all money sent via western union or other non-bank money transfer services to foreign countries. Bank to Bank transfers are exempt, allowing parents to send money to their children in foreign countries for example.

Step5. Announce that in 90 days any illegals caught in the country will have any and all funds gained from illegal activity confiscated and used to pay for their repatriation. Being here illegally is an illegal activity. If they leave voluntarily within the 90 time period, they can keep any money earned and all possessions acquired.

Any illegal caught in the country after 90 days can never return under any circumstances whether as guest worker or through application process.

Step6. Amend the Constitution to remove the "anchor baby" provision. Those already citizens by birth may stay, however their families must return home. If the anchor child decides to leave due to being too young, he/she may return at age of majority but the family must apply to return legally.

Step7. AFTER all illegals are gone, implement a guest worker program to cover legitimate labor needs. Guest workers cannot become citizens or permanent residents without first returning home and applying from their home nation. Guest workers must have a bond supplied by the employer sponsoring them(prior to their arrival here) that will cover the cost of returning the guest worker to his/her home country as soon as employment is terminated. All prospective guest workers must be fluent in English as a condition of eligibility. The employer must provide health insurance for the prospective guest worker. Guest workers may send their pay home without paying the 50% surcharge.

Harsh, yes. Ugly, yes. Mean, yes. However the time for nice solutions has passed. Besides, they don't work anyway.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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OF course, this is not a cut and dry situation. However, as someone who have all but one of our children adopted from Latin America, I can tell you that it wasn't easy, it took a long time, significant funds, and we did it all LEGALLY. True, in many cases, the children eligible for the Dream Act, are not responsible for their situation, but it is not fair for them to get special treatment over those who have come here LEGALLY . There is, I believe (although lately I really wonder) a rule of law in this country, and when we start making exceptions, we head down that slippery slope. In addition, part of the reason for immigration quotas, is to control the effect of new citizens, based upon the ability of our ECONOMY to HANDLE them. That is the true crime regarding illegal immigration, the tremendous burden that they have placed upon the ability of state, local and federal budgets to handle them. One need only look at California to see the economic devastation in California today, due to strains on social, economic and educational budgets in that state of the illegal population there. In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, I would support unlimited immigration, but unfortunately, someone has to pay the piper, and it should not be those who struggle HONESTLY and LEGALLY to be citizens.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
OF course, this is not a cut and dry situation. However, as someone who have all but one of our children adopted from Latin America, I can tell you that it wasn't easy, it took a long time, significant funds, and we did it all LEGALLY. True, in many cases, the children eligible for the Dream Act, are not responsible for their situation, but it is not fair for them to get special treatment over those who have come here LEGALLY . There is, I believe (although lately I really wonder) a rule of law in this country, and when we start making exceptions, we head down that slippery slope. In addition, part of the reason for immigration quotas, is to control the effect of new citizens, based upon the ability of our ECONOMY to HANDLE them. That is the true crime regarding illegal immigration, the tremendous burden that they have placed upon the ability of state, local and federal budgets to handle them. One need only look at California to see the economic devastation in California today, due to strains on social, economic and educational budgets in that state of the illegal population there. In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, I would support unlimited immigration, but unfortunately, someone has to pay the piper, and it should not be those who struggle HONESTLY and LEGALLY to be citizens.


And it's also not fair for them to be sent back to a country that they don't even know, it's not like they will be granted residency status instantly as soon as the law passes. They will be given CONDITIONAL non-immigrant status for 10 years before they can apply for residency.

In those 10 years they must attend college for 2 years or serve in the United States military, the Congressional Budget Office already released a report stating that this will affect the economy in a positive way and that it will even slash the debt deficit by $1.4 billion dollars.

I understand that people who are waiting in line to enter legally will be pissed, but we must make an exemption for these young people. Just like we give criminals the chance of parole after a certain period of time. The DREAM act is the humane way to deal with this issue, and unless you're a teabagger or a xenophobic right wing wacko then you shouldn't really have a problem with this.

Come on folks, what happened to the America that I thought was the land of opportunity and fairness to everyone? Do you guys really want to punish children for the action of their parents?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by muse7

And it's also not fair for them to be sent back to a country that they don't even know, it's not like they will be granted residency status instantly as soon as the law passes. They will be given CONDITIONAL non-immigrant status for 10 years before they can apply for residency.
It isn't fair that their parents broke our laws and came here.


In those 10 years they must attend college for 2 years or serve in the United States military, the Congressional Budget Office already released a report stating that this will affect the economy in a positive way and that it will even slash the debt deficit by $1.4 billion dollars.
I might be willing to grant exemption for military service. However not for college attendance, no way! They would end up taking slots from legal citizens. So no.


I understand that people who are waiting in line to enter legally will be pissed, but we must make an exemption for these young people. Just like we give criminals the chance of parole after a certain period of time. The DREAM act is the humane way to deal with this issue, and unless you're a teabagger or a xenophobic right wing wacko then you shouldn't really have a problem with this.
No, we don't have to make an exception. They can go back to their parents country and get in line. You left out racist, terrorist. Got any more names you want to add? My problem is that their parents broke the law, and they are breaking the law as well. My humane way of dealing with it is to send them back, instead of imprisoning them.


Come on folks, what happened to the America that I thought was the land of opportunity and fairness to everyone? Do you guys really want to punish children for the action of their parents?
Come on, what about fairness to the citizens who actually live here and pay taxes, that these leeches take to support their kids? What about the money they have stolen in the form of free education and welfare benefits? What about fairness to the LEGAL immigrants doing things the right way? Do we punish them for obeying our laws?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 





the Congressional Budget Office already released a report stating that this will affect the economy in a positive way and that it will even slash the debt deficit by $1.4 billion dollars.

You apparently have not been paying attention over the last two years. The Congressional Budget Office ALSO said that the Health Care Bill will cut the Federal Deficit also, and every economist worth his/her salt, agrees that no such thing is true. The Congressional Budget Office takes the data they are GIVEN by the people who want a rubber stamp, and repeat back in fancy terms the same BOGUS data they were given. BTW, don't believe me. Here is the liberal NY Times:



How can the budget office give a green light to a bill that commits the federal government to spending nearly $1 trillion more over the next 10 years?

The answer, unfortunately, is that the budget office is required to take written legislation at face value and not second-guess the plausibility of what it is handed. So fantasy in, fantasy out.

In reality, if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary games and rework the calculus, a wholly different picture emerges: The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion.

www.nytimes.com...

Furthermore, I won't bother to respond anymore to people like you who can't address the issues and instead resort to name calling. It merely indicates that you have NO valid retort. When, and if, you ever decide to respond in an adult fashion, without name calling, maybe people will take you seriously. Until then, I won't give you the time of day.



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