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Feds tracking credit cards, store purchases without warrant: report

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posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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Feds tracking credit cards, store purchases without warrant: report


www.rawstory.com

Federal law enforcement routinely tracks individuals through their credit cards, cell phones, car rentals and even store customer loyalty programs without obtaining a warrant, an online privacy activist has discovered.

According to a document (PDF) obtained from the Department of Justice by online privacy activist Christopher Soghoian, federal agents working on a criminal investigation can draw up their own paperwork requesting that credit companies and retailers give the agents real-time acc
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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No court reviews these orders, and the only role courts play in the process is to issue a non-disclosure order to the retailer or credit card company involved, meaning the person being tracked will never be notified of the surveillance.


This is no surprise there. Many of us havew been saying this for a long time. What's even more crazy, is that I bet each one of us is profiled by the items we purchase on our store loyalty or discount cards.

Normally, this wouldn;t be a big deal, as who cares whether the government knows what kind of groceries you buy or your credit spending habits. However, with all of the government "lists", such as the "no-fly" list or "terror-watch" list, it then becomes a big deal, especially because it lacks even a hint of transparency and there is no method of appeals. In other words, you can't confront your accuser, thus due process of law has been thrown out of the window.

What's worse, is that with the Patriot Act and HGTPA (as well as other like minded), they can now use this information to either assassinate you or kidnap you and there isn't a single thing you can do about and your family and friends would never know it. You then just because one of the thousands of missing persons.

What ever happened to the Constitution and our protections guaranteed by it? It's such a shame that the American people npo longer care.

If you are wise, get rid of your credit cards. You don't want to be giving the bank any more money than you have to and you certainly don't want to wind up on a government list. Also, the store "loyalty" or "discount" cards aren;t necessary either, as you can simply tell the cashier that you forgot it and they will often use a store card. Just do that everytime. If you are at Radio Shack or another store that asks for your tele number or address, just give them a fake and change it up every time.

Come on, lets not make this easy for them.

What a shame. Freedom is lost and now what we have is only the illusion of freedom that can fleet you at any moment, as it is happening to us one by one. The Constitution no longer protects you because the Constitution is no longer valid, according to the illegal coup d' etat that has taken over our country.


--airspoon

www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:40 AM
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We have created a Federal KGB. Isn't it glorious progress?



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


It's just a god damn piece of paper........

BTW, It's not just alphabet agencies..Many companies sell off your purchase details.
Then companies can "target" you with specific products..
Maybe the permission is in the fine print no one bothers to read.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


We aren't really talking about corporate use of this information, which is probably in the "fine print". Instead, we are talking about the government using this information, which is unConstitutional and not in the "fine print". Furthermore, even if it is the "fine print", that only lets the corporate entities off the hook, not the government, which is supposed to be bound by the Constitution. When the government no longer adheres to the Constitution, it is then an illegal government.



--airspoon



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by airspoon



No court reviews these orders, and the only role courts play in the process is to issue a non-disclosure order to the retailer or credit card company involved, meaning the person being tracked will never be notified of the surveillance.


This is no surprise there. Many of us havew been saying this for a long time. What's even more crazy, is that I bet each one of us is profiled by the items we purchase on our store loyalty or discount cards.

Normally, this wouldn;t be a big deal, as who cares whether the government knows what kind of groceries you buy or your credit spending habits. However, with all of the government "lists", such as the "no-fly" list or "terror-watch" list, it then becomes a big deal, especially because it lacks even a hint of transparency and there is no method of appeals. In other words, you can't confront your accuser, thus due process of law has been thrown out of the window.

What's worse, is that with the Patriot Act and HGTPA (as well as other like minded), they can now use this information to either assassinate you or kidnap you and there isn't a single thing you can do about and your family and friends would never know it. You then just because one of the thousands of missing persons.

What ever happened to the Constitution and our protections guaranteed by it? It's such a shame that the American people npo longer care.

If you are wise, get rid of your credit cards. You don't want to be giving the bank any more money than you have to and you certainly don't want to wind up on a government list. Also, the store "loyalty" or "discount" cards aren;t necessary either, as you can simply tell the cashier that you forgot it and they will often use a store card. Just do that everytime. If you are at Radio Shack or another store that asks for your tele number or address, just give them a fake and change it up every time.

Come on, lets not make this easy for them.

What a shame. Freedom is lost and now what we have is only the illusion of freedom that can fleet you at any moment, as it is happening to us one by one. The Constitution no longer protects you because the Constitution is no longer valid, according to the illegal coup d' etat that has taken over our country.


--airspoon

www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Just like you said...use cash as much as possible. I've been trying to do that more and more over the past year even when I would normally have used my debit card. Pssst. I also "forgot" my loyalty card at home. I hope they're also not tracking when my membership card gets scanned at the gym, they'll see I've been slacking off lately!



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Didn't I hear the Constitution has been effectivly suspended since 9/11 ?
Is that true?

There is no doubt the WH does not care for the Constitution, neither does the military or the Justice System..



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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I've always assumed this, people always thought I was crazy for never owning a cell phone or credit card, and instead using a checking account in my parents name with just the bare minimum in it to pay bills and use a debit card for online shopping, other then that all I spend is cash. I knew I was right all along. Life is easier when you have a excuse not to have a cellphone also, much less peole nagging you.
edit on 12/3/2010 by Unilluminist because: typo



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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This is getting ridiculous..
I wonder why they really need all this information, gut feeling tells me something to do with FEMA camps.
Also, its not just stores. Facebook can legitimately sell your pictures and information to whoever they choose, its in the terms and conditions. Too bad i didnt read it before i signed up

Makes you wonder why it was even created in the first place..
However, im sure you could use it to your advantage. Like you could use your credit card at shops that dont interest you at all and post things on your facebook that you normally wouldnt so they have a completely messed up character profile of you.
I guess it can go both ways



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 



Didn't I hear the Constitution has been effectivly suspended since 9/11 ?
Is that true?


Realistically and practically, yes, though certainly not legally as there is no authority to do that. In effect, it was a coup d'etat and thus an illegal government, or at least one that continues to break the law.



There is no doubt the WH does not care for the Constitution, neither does the military or the Justice System..


While I agree with you about the WH and justice system ( Justice Dept.) not caring for the Constitution, I don't agree with you about the military. I think that the military as a whole is a most loyal asset. Remember, each soldier and officer swore their oath to protect and defend the Constitution. The Pentagon is driven by a huge beauracracy so it may take a little while for them to figure out that our country has been hijacked, but below the Washington beauracracy (to include commanding generals), I have no doubt that their loyalty lies with the American people and Constitution.

This is why I suspect that TPTB can;t just come out and clamp down, as the military would quickly move to stamp that out. Instead, they need to turn up the heat little by little so that we don't realize the water is hot until we are already boiling. After all, that is the best way to cook a bull-frog.


--airspoon



reply to post by littlecloud
 



I wonder why they really need all this information, gut feeling tells me something to do with FEMA camps.


To be honest, I think the whole FEMA camp issue, at least how it is interpreted by many such as Alex Jones, is hogwash. Let me ask you this, why would they even need FEMA camps when they can so tightly control us without them?

The reality is that FEMA Camps to imprison the population would be a huge logistical nightmare that no other country on Earth has undertaken or been able to implament. You can completely control a population without the use of camps.

Furthermore, people are so affraid of the FEMA Camps, that they are blinded by the prison industry. We already have more people imprisoned than any other country in history, to include Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, even put together. In fact, we have more people locked up or incarcerated than almost the whole world combined. If it's camps or prisons for a large segment of the population that you are worried about, they are already here and chances are that either you will visit one or a family member.

They don't need FEMA Camps and in a way, they have already been here for a long time, they just aren;t run by FEMA.


--airspoon
edit on 3-12-2010 by airspoon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by littlecloud
 



I wonder why they really need all this information, gut feeling tells me something to do with FEMA camps.


Ohh yeah the camps..
Well that makes sense..They will know what kind of beer I drink and my favourite meals..
Gee the DHS thinks of everything



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 



While I agree with you about the WH and justice system ( Justice Dept.) not caring for the Constitution, I don't agree with you about the military. I think that the military as a whole is a most loyal asset. Remember, each soldier and officer swore their oath to protect and defend the Constitution.


I agree if the SHTF most soldiers would be loyal to us..I'm talking more the leaders..
Also remember Katrina? Soldiers dissarming residents etc..
How about all the soldiers patroling and getting the people accustomed to troops on our streets??
Been going on for a while now..



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Haha yeah! They wanna have it set up all nicely for our arrival.
I was just thinking maybe they had all this in place so they could find us if we were to avoid the camps somehow.
Or is that too out of the question?



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 





To be honest, I think the whole FEMA camp issue, at least how it is interpreted by many such as Alex Jones, is hogwash. Let me ask you this, why would they even need FEMA camps when they can so tightly control us without them? The reality is that FEMA Camps to imprison the population would be a huge logistical nightmare that no other country on Earth has undertaken or been able to implament. You can completely control a population without the use of camps. Furthermore, people are so affraid of the FEMA Camps, that they are blinded by the prison industry. We already have more people imprisoned than any other country in history, to include Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, even put together. In fact, we have more people locked up or incarcerated than almost the whole world combined. If it's camps or prisons for a large segment of the population that you are worried about, they are already here and chances are that either you will visit one or a family member. They don't need FEMA Camps and in a way, they have already been here for a long time, they just aren;t run by FEMA.


Thats a pretty good point actually, the most ive heard about it has been from alex jones and im starting to become a bit suspicious of him. Just more fear mongering I suppose.
But ive read a few things about places being put aside for them and whatever, but i think that was from alex jones aswell. haha

What do you suggest all this unprovoked tracking is for then?



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Even the leaders would be loyal. The only ones who may not be loyal, is the the top Pentagon brass, though they may ultimately be loyal too.

As far as Katrina, I think that was a dry run. A way in which TPTB could test to see how the military reacts, or even the population. You have to remember though, will most military commanders ignore legalities like that National Guard commander did? I'm assuming not.

However, this isn't even an issue, as the government or PTB wouldn't be so dumb as to make a sudden move. Instead, they will slowely turn up the heat, giving us years to becme indoctrinated and forget what liberty and freedom is, as they condition us through fear to accept their brand of tyranny. Most aren't going to realize what is happening until it's much too late.


--airspoon



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by airspoon
 


It's just a god damn piece of paper........

BTW, It's not just alphabet agencies..Many companies sell off your purchase details.
Then companies can "target" you with specific products..
Maybe the permission is in the fine print no one bothers to read.


Agreed. Like this was some big revelation. This is why I pay cash for my liquor and cigarettes so some subsequent health insurance company can't run a quick check and see I lied on the applications.

You have no real privacy, though you have a right to privacy I don't think it is Constitutionally protected - with publicly shared electronic information and systems.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by backinblack
 


Even the leaders would be loyal. The only ones who may not be loyal, is the the top Pentagon brass, though they may ultimately be loyal too.

As far as Katrina, I think that was a dry run. A way in which TPTB could test to see how the military reacts, or even the population. You have to remember though, will most military commanders ignore legalities like that National Guard commander did? I'm assuming not.

However, this isn't even an issue, as the government or PTB wouldn't be so dumb as to make a sudden move. Instead, they will slowely turn up the heat, giving us years to becme indoctrinated and forget what liberty and freedom is, as they condition us through fear to accept their brand of tyranny. Most aren't going to realize what is happening until it's much too late.
--airspoon


The government, the government WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!
Our government is broke, useless and tired.
You should be worried about third party intervention or the sale of this information for purposes of targeting and profiling for a sales pitch....or who knows? Maybe something worse. Follow the money.
It isn't winding up back in government hands. It will go to private industry.
There is your worry.
Rapiscion.
BLACKWATER "type" privately formed and funded organizations, "helpers" for the masses.
FEAR them.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by rusethorcain
 



You have no real privacy, though you have a right to privacy I don't think it is Constitutionally protected


Sadly, this is why it is being done, ignorance of the Constitution and a lack of holding any one accountable. Actually, your privacy is Constitutionally protected from government. Not so much the corporate but you also have a choice with giving them your information, unless of course you have done something wrong.

However, the Bill of Rights doesn't give you any rights, your creator did, at least according the framers of our founding documents. Instead, these first 10 Amendments protects those god-given rights from the federal government or government encroachment. For instance, the Constitution won't necessarily protect you from private business, though it does protect you from the federal government.

Look at it this way, the "Bill of Rights" doesn't tell you what you can do, so much as it tells the government what they can't do.

The 4th Amendment should make it clear that the government needs to obtain a warrant upon probable cause before it can search or seize anything. This is especially true when and if they act on this information, though certianly not limited there.



--airspoon




reply to post by littlecloud
 



What do you suggest all this unprovoked tracking is for then?


Control.


--airspoon
edit on 3-12-2010 by airspoon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


We already know about keyword searches on all communications, why wouldn't they keyword search purchases? We made this easy allowing everything to go completely digital. Imagine something as simple as going to Walmart and buying shot gun shells. Not only could this particular purchase be tracked but so could every ammo purchased in the US. It really becomes easy when most CC companies and ATM cards are now approved over internet connections. The all digital age has allowed the government to easily track everything from gasoline purchases to medical information thanks to the new health care bill. At the push of a button they can find anything about any small segment of the economy and it's people.

I don't travel anywhere I can't get by car, I bank only because the company I own gets checks from other companies, and I cash checks for cash and buy everything that way and I never use an ATM or CC. Also remember when you use your ATM to take out 20 bucks your now photographed with the ATM transaction. (For your own protection of course.) I wear my Tin Hat proudly.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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I don't think it is illegal, the store owners have that information and if the feds ask for it they have to give it up...

I don't think it is a good thing but I don't think their doing anything unlawful.



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