One of the the most intelligently written story-based games to date: Xenogears

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
Played this when I was young and enjoyed it very much.

Just picked up a copy last week.

Its blowing my mind.

Ya one of the best rpg games ever, if not the best. If anything I for one wouldn't mind if they made a remake complete with updated graphics and finally filled some of the holes in the story. For its time it was ahead of the curb that is for sure, and the way they blended in the story with basically every concept under the sun from religion, to rebirth, to both advanced technology, to god, to dues ex machina ie god in the machine. To nanotech and giant robots.

Literally in the game god is a machine, and it's purpose is to turn a whole planet into a weapon, to mystical theme, to other dimensions such as the wave existence, and the contact with it that fei makes. To some of its plots and even the downright goofiness.

To split personalities and psychosis, and secrets of the world that really were a secret and made you go WTF when they revealed it in flashback or when when the story progressed, its story did not only span a couple of years or even a hundred, but over ten thousand years and it really kept you guessing on what the funk was going on.

Or even once in while you just had to stop and actually question things, like how did a guy from a fishing village by the sea in a iron age setting end up here, on a ship that is the size of a couple of cities flying around in the clouds all around the planet. To the elites and even the whole sheeple thing or surface dwellers that the those above called those bellow. To a bunch of more things that i wont bother to list.

Really don't get me started on this game, its like dam! it really was ahead of the curb for when it came out. And the little sprite graphics really do not do it justice.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


The graphics were actually OK for its time.

What upsets me is how they aren't continuing the xenosaga. It was supposed to be a six episode epic. The first three are made. Gears is supposed to be episode 5 and it was supposed to go up to six.

I don't know why they killed it but what a shame.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


They couldn't really do justice to it, but in itself yes xenogears is episode five, but from the moment the eldridge crashed onto the planet the whole story really spans something like 10 thousand years to tell in its entirety. In the game a few civilization came and had fallen in that timespan, one even blew themselves up with nukes.

xenosaga.wikia.com...

In fact they could do a couple of episodes/games just about episode 5 which we know as xenogears.

But i agree with you I just think that they bit off more then they could chew trying to keep the whole storyline coherent and in line with the original, xenogears. And really I played the xenosagas, and they were alright but no were near what xenogears was.

Though I would love to see them make more, I really don't see how they could go about it, and still remain true to the original Xenogears. Thats why I would like to see a more vast and better remake of the original, I mean it will lose some of its luster because we played the game and know what will happen and such, but still with what was not said in the original game you could make a couple of games just about the original game.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Yeah what upset me about xenosage was the lack of gear usage. They restricted gear usage to only certain points in the game, many that were impossible to return to once completed (the simulation where you could return to old dungeons was annoying.

They also attempted to make the story way too epic and complicated.

Like I said I'm doing a replay right now of the whole series. Its been over a decade since I've played gears and now that I'm able to understand more of the story content it has actually peaked my interest more so than it did previously. I'm impressed all over again.

RPGs themselves have taken a turn for the worse which is why its almost impossible to remake a classic or jumpstart an old saga. Game length and content have been scrapped for long cinematics, dialog has overtaken the story. Their attempts to jap these games up rather than sticking to their western roots and old mythologies have done much to deter the western markets from this genre as well. Funny looking characters with high pitched ritzy voices are a niche market for anime fans and didn't sit well with the majority of RPG fans. Why they figured that all RPG fans were anime fans as well is beyond me. The killing of the world map and the lack of ability to grind levels until a later point in the game plus sideqyests these days leave something to be desired. Its Asif they have a really good concept but an incomplete story that they attempt to finish as the game goes on. Too much effort spent on graphics and trying to reinvent the battle systems with every new jrpg. They should have honestly stuck to their old formulas.

The final fantasy series or anything that square - enix comes up with is dead to me. I used to like both companies when they were separate. Now its all over produced garbage that you can finish in a matter of days and offers little lasting appeal.

What a shame. these game actually opened my mind to some of the concepts that form some of my core belief systems to this day. Some of these games rank higher to me than books or movies. Its just too bad . In my opinion it wasn't that the genre died out on its own like the developers say it has but rather was killed by removing the elements that made it popular in the first place.

Sure some of the newer generationwill non turn based RPGs are good, they just don't come anywhere close to the greatness of the RPGs of old.

Games like wild arms, grandia, FF 1 through 10 , Lufia, lunar, tales, chrono trigger, star ocean. Nothing new can even compare in quality from story telling to gameplay. Forget cutscenes and graphics.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


I know what you mean bro, but it could just be the time and moment of when those games came out.

But I agree for some reason it is hard to get into the new rpg's now a days, for instance I bought mass effect 2 some months ago, I played and even though it is a good game. It really just hard to keep interest in it, so I got about half way then just stopped all of a sudden and went to replay some of the older rpgs.

But really I think it comes down to the story, if the story does not grab you and move you then really it might as well just be a action game or a FPS, and since I basically played them all. Well it is kind of hard to be intersted in the new because it is just basically the same old stories rehashed and with new graphics.

And if you have played xenogears and the older rpg's you have played basically all the other rpg's out there that have come out since then. Really there are very few actual new concepts out there.

Really the only rpg of this generation that I bothered to not only beat, but play more then once was demons souls, and that was because it was one of the games that had a more original concept that I have not seen done or have not seen done so well, and it was just plain fun to play.

If you want to see a Japanese game that goes more western in it's concepts, well its that game.

However if they made another xenosaga or remade xenogears I would be all over that. But like you said what can they do that has not already been done?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


I think there are alot of things they could do in terms of story. There are a ton of concepts they could explore. The only problem is that the gameplay would stay the same.

Lots of developers have changed the way these games play over time in an attempt to keep interest in the genre but honestly I think this is what killed it.

Mind you the tales series keeps churning out games using their original battle system, same formulas and tie it in with good graphics and an amazing story.

I never got into mmorpg because of the lack of a story line and because most of them are pay to play. There are some OK newer ones that I like. I'm really into games like elder scrolls and fallout but for some reason I still yearn for that new turn based RPG to come out that will bring me back to the old days while still having the ability to blow my mind.

reply to post by metaldemon2000

I think there are alot of things they could do in terms of story. There are a ton of concepts they could explore. The only problem is that the gameplay would stay the same.

And why would the game-play have to stay the same?

Really one game that I thought blended the whole jrpg turn based genre and the western action rpg genre really well was a little game on the x box 360 called Infinite undiscovery, not many people liked that game, but I thought it was one of the best games out there and it brought new concepts to an old and tiered genre.

If anything I would prefer that, then turn based games of yesterday. Really i have played them so much from the Nintendo with the first final fantasy on up to today's turn based rpgs, that it's hard to play turn based rpgs again other then for something as a nostalgia point of view.

And the only mmorpg that I got into was guild wars and one of the biggest reasons was that it was free to play, and it was not a job like some of the other mmorps out there. were you had to be constantly grinding for levels to even stay in the game, guild wars had a sort of pick up and play feel to it. And with the level cap that they put in. It did make it more balanced and more about the quests and other stuff instead of just the same old grind for levels that most mmorpgs are.

But anyways if they were going to make another xenogears/xenosaga game. I would prefer that it would be something along the lines of what infinite undiscovery had as its gameplay, instead of the turn based battles.

I completely forgot about infinite indiscovery.

I enjoyed that game as well. Its too bad it didn't gain much popularity. Lost oddessy was alright too. The battle system was a little on the slow side and at time frustrating. The world map did it some justice though. Once again plagued with annoying characters (the twins) with high pitched voices. I have kids and I'm glad they don't sound like that. Lol

I don't mind turn based and yeah there are things they could do with it. I rather enjoyed FF13s battle system even though the rest of the game annoyed the hell out of me. I understand that it was meant to be a prequel to 13-2 but the linear gameplay and bland open world near the end of the game bothered me. Other than that it wasn't had. If they gave it any other name than final fantasy it would have been a great title on its own.

I wonder why it is though that they continue to make great RPGs in japan that never get released outside of japan even though there is a huge demand by fans to release them. Do they think that sort of gaming is dead here?? I don't imagine so.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


Infinite undiscovery is one of the best rpg's that came out I think, and it was a fun game to play. I have been watching vids of the game on youtube and it is one of the games that I would want to replay again, especially since I did not beat the game on infinity mode.

But its funny how both infinite undiscovery and lost odyssey which came out around the same time, both games had two annoying as hell little kid twins as playable characters. Coincedence? I think not. Still between the two games the ones in Lost odyssey were much more annoying.

I have not played lost odyssey all but for like a couple of hours into it, so I cant comment on how good it was but I never really got into it. But i would replay infinite undiscovery in a second if they had it on the PS3 especially since I got started on beating the game on infinite mode but never got far in it. And another game that was on the 360 that i would replay if they would of made it for the PS3 as well is The Last Remnant.

Dont know if you played it but it was turn based, only you could control groups of 3, 4 or 5 characters and up to like 14 or more characters during fights, and in my opinion it was a better game then ff13 which came out latter, but it never got popular with people for some reason and so it never sold all that much. However I liked it, it was better then ff13 in pretty much every aspect, exempt maybe the graphics, but story, game-play, fun, and extras, and pretty much everything else was better.


I mean I played ff13 and other then the graphics which were not all that good, I found nothing new or better in the game that other rpgs that came out before it like infinite undiscovery or the last remnant didn't do better. The combat was pretty but man was it simple, literally all you had to do is hold down one button and just walk around and you could beat the whole game like that, and it had very little variation in the combat or strategy.

If anything I think I could of just ducktaped the action button down on my controler set it on turbo, then walk around watch the pretty cut-scenes, and could of beat the whole game like that, thats how simple the combat was. And the story was meh, nothing all that interesting. And I didn't even bother to do the missions at the end world, I just went straight to the last boss and beat him to get it over with, and that was that I have not touched the game since.

It wasn't a bad game but it was so oversimplified that it just didn't make you do anything but want to get over with it. If anything it was more like a movie, not very interactive, just sit there press a few buttons and watch the scenery go by.

I wonder why it is though that they continue to make great RPGs in japan that never get released outside of japan even though there is a huge demand by fans to release them. Do they think that sort of gaming is dead here?? I don't imagine so.

I don't know, I don't think there is as big a demand as you think. So if they wont sell, then they wont port them or even bother to make them for the north american or any other audience. I think they just don't want to take a chance that it would fail and completely bomb.

In fact that's probably one of the reasons we never got versions of infinite undiscovery and the last remnant for the PS3, they didn't sell so good on the x box, so they never bothered to port them over to the PS3. But then again cant judge all games by what sells on the x box since its basically a halo/FPS and gears of war machine. Really up here in north america it comes down to shooting games, and action games, in fact football games sell better then rpgs do here I think.

Every year they come out with a different version of a madden NFL game, and those sell like hot cakes even though to me it just seems like its the same game only with a little bit of updates and a little better graphics each and every year, they might as well start calling them, madden v1.00, madden v1.01, madden v.1.02, every time one comes out.

Originally posted by mr10k
Yo, OP, I'ma let you finish...BUT FINAL FANTASY 10 had one of theee best stories of all time!!!!

LOL sorry, but I like FFX's story. Woven together like a golden spider web.

FFX was the best one ever, and a little birdy told me there doing a HD+3D version blitzball will be epic!