Saddam Hussein and Freemasonry

The Washington Post has published a portion of the Ba'ath's regime's 1971 changes to the Iraqi criminal code at

washingtontimes.com...

which reads in part:

"The changes defined a new class of "political" criminal offenses, made it a
felony to criticize the government in the media and prescribed the death
penalty for those who betray the ruling Ba'ath Party or who "promote or acclaim
Zionist principles, including freemasonry, or who associate [themselves] with
Zionist organizations."

Fiat Lvx.

I'd already heard of this and it came as no suprise. Especially when you remember that nearly every dictator in history has banned freemasonry at one time or another - hence masonry is banned in many Middle Eastern countries even today.
Freemasonry doesn't sit well in the eyes of those who oppose freedom.

As for The Zionist comment? Freemasonry is no more Zionist than it is Buddhist, Christian, Muslim or Hindu. Linking masonry with Zionism was just an easy way to ban it.

Originally posted by Leveller
Linking masonry with Zionism was just an easy way to ban it.

Exactly. Hitler did the same thing, citing "Zionism" because Masonry admits Jews, and encourages the study of Kabalah.

Fiat Lvx.

I might be tip toeing into troll land here ( I hope they dont invade on this) but could I ask for clarification on your last statement ML. Does FM encourage the study of Kabala or were you stating that Hitler said it encouraged the study of Kabala. Thanks for the help.

It's funny because I spoke to a 32nd degree who claims I was wrong in suggesting that masons study the Qabballa or Kabballa. He is younger and swore heaven and earth that no mason studies it. An older mason of the same degree stated different. Makes me wonder if these younger guys are learning too fast and missing some details. I myself study the Kabbalah's principles as it ties in with many other doctrines. I should have asked him if he knew who Albert Pike was!

[edit on 7/2/2004 by MOOR45]

Freemasons have been persecuted by Fascist and Comminst Governments. In a democracy they are allowed to exist and for Masons to practice the craft without fear of persecution. In Edinburgh the Freemasons gave �20,000 to help pay for a 'sanctuary' in the new Royal infirmary. Freemasons in Scotland also recently gave �250, 000 to a Children's cancer charity to pay for a children's hospice. If people acted like the Freemasons the world would be a better and happier place.

Brother Gerard

Originally posted by Star_and_Crescent
Does FM encourage the study of Kabala or were you stating that Hitler said it encouraged the study of Kabala.

The Scottish Rite of Masonry strongly encourages the study of the Kabalah; the Grand Lodge that was in operation in Germany at the time of the Nazis� rise to power was the Grand Lodge of the Three Globes, and was a Scottish Rite organization with ties to the older Rite of Strict Observance.
It can be assumed that Lodge publications featured Kabbalistic material. Since the Kabalah is of Hebrew origin, it was denounced by the Third Reich.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Leveller
I'd already heard of this and it came as no suprise. Especially when you remember that nearly every dictator in history has banned freemasonry at one time or another ...
Freemasonry doesn't sit well in the eyes of those who oppose freedom.

Well, the Catholic Church isn't a dictator , but they are one of those who ban freemasonry.
Or is there another reason the church frowns on Freemasonry?

I dont see what Freemasonry and Zionism have to do with one another.

hell, the Kaballah isnt even originally Hebrew, it was taken from Babylonian mysticism and adopted by jewish scholars there in exile.

Whats the big deal?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
hell, the Kaballah isnt even originally Hebrew, it was taken from Babylonian mysticism and adopted by jewish scholars there in exile.

That�s a common misconception, but is nevertheless a misconception. There is no evidence that the Kabalah was in existence during the Israelites� captivity in Babylon, and even less that it was formulated by Gentiles.

Instead of originating in Babylon, evidence suggests the Kabalah was a system invented by Hellenistic Jews who were attempting to reconcile the Hebrew religion with the philosophy of Plato (St. Augustine would later try to reconcile Christianity and Platonism, with only mixed results). The Kabalah is filled with analogies to Platonism, all of which were unknown or ignored by the so-called Babylonian Mysteries. Also, the book known as the Babylonian Talmud, which does contain references to the cosmopolitan Babylonian beliefs during the time of the captivity, is not Kabbalistic; instead, it is basically dry commentary on the Tanakh.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by MOOR45
It's funny because I spoke to a 32nd degree who claims I was wrong in suggesting that masons study the Qabballa or Kabballa. He is younger and swore heaven and earth that no mason studies it. An older mason of the same degree stated different. Makes me wonder if these younger guys are learning too fast and missing some details. I myself study the Kabbalah's principles as it ties in with many other doctrines. I should have asked him if he knew who Albert Pike was!

[edit on 7/2/2004 by MOOR45]

Moor45,

One of the beauties of Freemasonry is that NO one man or group of Men speak for Freemasonry. I am a 32nd Degree Knight Commander of the Court of Honor and I study the Kabbalah and many other enlightening subjects. The Mason you spoke of may not do so...that's his perogative, but if he's taken the 32 (of 33) Degrees of Scottish Rite, he's at least heard of it...although he may have been asleep during the conferral.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by Leveller
I'd already heard of this and it came as no suprise. Especially when you remember that nearly every dictator in history has banned freemasonry at one time or another ...
Freemasonry doesn't sit well in the eyes of those who oppose freedom.

Well, the Catholic Church isn't a dictator

, but they are one of those who ban freemasonry.
Or is there another reason the church frowns on Freemasonry?

Because Freemasonry is non-religious, the church felt it evil, cause if you don't think our way(the church) your EVIL!!! Want to study anything other then what we say is truth, your EVIL!!! Also it didn't help when the pope said he had to know all the "secrets", and Freemasonry basically said, "members only, sorry your holyness", you don't give me all I want cause I'm the pope? EVIL!!! EEEEEEEEEVVIILLLLLLL!!!!

Ya, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I do believe thats about how it went down . With a little less slang ofcourse

[edit on 2-7-2004 by Darktalon]

Moor45,

One of the beauties of Freemasonry is that NO one man or group of Men speak for Freemasonry. I am a 32nd Degree Knight Commander of the Court of Honor and I study the Kabbalah and many other enlightening subjects. The Mason you spoke of may not do so...that's his perogative, but if he's taken the 32 (of 33) Degrees of Scottish Rite, he's at least heard of it...although he may have been asleep during the conferral.

Exactly Senrak! He was sleeping! I know that no one man speaks for Freemasonry. But I knew he was trying to insult my intelligence. I was on a three way with my friend who is a third degree and he put this 32nd on to talk about Moors and Masons yada, yada, yada. Maybe he felt he shouldn't discuss it in front of my friend being he was not awre of it yet? Don't know but I found it strange. I've seen this type of behavior before.


[edit on 7/3/2004 by MOOR45]

Originally posted by MOOR45
Maybe he felt he shouldn't discuss it in front of my friend being he was not awre of it yet? Don't know but I found it strange. I've seen this type of behavior before.

I can't say for sure, but the likelihood is that your friend was being honest, and just doesn't really know anything about Masonry.
Unfortunately, the majority of our members fall into this category. To most Masons, our fraternity is nothing more than another standard civic club, an excuse to get out of the house a couple of times a month.

The degrees of the Scottish Rite contain many references to the Kabalah, and the books recommended by the Rite contain even more. But if a Brother isn't paying attention during his initiations, and has not read the prescribed books, then he will have gained no knowledge of the subject, regardless of his degree.

Fiat Lvx.

I agree totally. My friend is a third so I didn't expect him to know. But it was his brothe who felt because I was a Moor I know nothing of "his" side. And he stated his claim so convincingly. That is why in the other post I made those statements as to some members not seeing the whole spectrum. Some spend an entire lifetime involved in something they have not even cracked the surface.

Originally posted by MOOR45
I agree totally. My friend is a third so I didn't expect him to know.

Those who have received the Third Degree in the Scottish Rite should have have become familiar with at least the existence of the Kabalah. But, in English speaking nations, most Masons receive the first three degrees in Blue Lodges of the York Rite. In the York Rite, reference to Kabalah is only found in the Royal Arch Degree, and then only in passing, with about two sentences in the Lecture dedicated to the subject.

Fiat Lvx.

Masonic Light, supposedly this guy is Prince Hall-Scottish Rite. Is there a York Rite for Prince Hall? Anyway it was disturbing that he shot me down before investigating my claim.

Originally posted by MOOR45
Masonic Light, supposedly this guy is Prince Hall-Scottish Rite. Is there a York Rite for Prince Hall? Anyway it was disturbing that he shot me down before investigating my claim.

Yes, Prince Hall has York Rite, although I'm not familiar with exactly how closely the Prince Hall ceremonies parallel ours. I'm sure they're basicall the same for the most part, but it is possible that Kabalah could be downplayed by the PH Brethren in their ritual.

Fiat Lvx.

Ah,that would explain it. I have heard that Prince Hall do things differently with alot of things.