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Why Is The God of Abraham So Shy?

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posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Hello, and may Peace be upon you all.

To the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, and anyone that believes in the God of Abraham,
Why did Abraham's God not openly manifest and communicate with all of mankind? Why did He chose to reveal himself only to one prophet at a time? Why did He command the Hebrew Israelites to kill all non-believers?



"And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13)


Why did this God reveal to Christian Popes and Kings to launch Crusades and murder in His name, for the sake of spreading salvation? 0_0

Why does this God command Muslims to kill non-believers unless they surrender or convert?


All 3 religions are guilty of mass murder so let's not get into blaming which religion kills more.


Couldn't an All Knowing God just manifest Himself on a large scale where every human can see Him, then choose individually to obey or dissent? Some kind of a cosmic conference via satellite? Wouldn't this be a better solution of an All Loving and All Merciful God, so that human life may be spared?

Why only reveal Himself to one prophet, thus making it hard for average people to distinguish words of truth from words of a psychotic lunatic? Why reveal the message to one people that must spread the message by the sword? Why give righteous truth to a small, select, and leave the rest of the world in utter "ignorance" until God's followers later come with two options... religion or the sword?

Why is Abraham's God so shy?




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Sahabi
Hello, and may Peace be upon you all.

To the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, and anyone that believes in the God of Abraham,
Why did Abraham's God not openly manifest and communicate with all of mankind? Why did He chose to reveal himself only to one prophet at a time? Why did He command the Hebrew Israelites to kill all non-believers?


In the old testament god was very open about himself. In fact at any time of the day the israelites could look at the sky and see if God's light was shining on them or not. If it wasn't they would move to where it was. He also performed many miracles like on mount Sinai with Moses. He even told them that he wanted them to see Him but He told them to clean themselves first. (I'm guessing a holy God can't be in the vicinity of sinfulness). The Israelites ran away in terror from God. They told Moses to go talk to Him because if they went to see the Lord 'they would surely die'. I would provide biblical references but im too lazy lol. It's somewhere in Deuteronomy.

So yeah he performed tons of miracles for them, but the Israelite s didn't love him or follow him, most of them rebelled and worshiped other Gods. That's one of the reasons why the first commandment is thou shall not have other gods before me. God loves us so much and He deserves our love, not some made up God, and rightly so because God created us.
That is why God is very subtle with miracles these days. Even Jesus was hesitant sometimes to do miracles. I read on one occasion he healed a crippled man and asked him to be quiet but he wasn't and a whole crowd surrounded him asking for a miracle. I guess witnessing miracles doesn't produce the kind of faith and love that God wants us to have for Him.

God defintely still does miracles though. As long as you have faith in Him. I hope my answer helped.

edit on 1-12-2010 by freedish because: meh



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Sahabi
Hello, and may Peace be upon you all.

Why did He command the Hebrew Israelites to kill all non-believers?



Why did this God reveal to Christian Popes and Kings to launch Crusades and murder in His name, for the sake of spreading salvation? 0_0

Why does this God command Muslims to kill non-believers unless they surrender or convert?

All 3 religions are guilty of mass murder so let's not get into blaming which religion kills more.


Couldn't an All Knowing God just manifest Himself on a large scale where every human can see Him, then choose individually to obey or dissent? Some kind of a cosmic conference via satellite? Wouldn't this be a better solution of an All Loving and All Merciful God, so that human life may be spared?

Why only reveal Himself to one prophet, thus making it hard for average people to distinguish words of truth from words of a psychotic lunatic? Why reveal the message to one people that must spread the message by the sword? Why give righteous truth to a small, select, and leave the rest of the world in utter "ignorance" until God's followers later come with two options... religion or the sword?

Why is Abraham's God so shy?




I wish i could answer all your questions but i have to get to bed.
You might wanna check this site out

Christian Answers

I had a lot of the same questions as you and it was very helpful for me
I want to say that no matter what I PROMISE you there are logic, reasonable
answers for every one of your questions. And our God is a glorious
wonderful amazing God. Also, sometimes people misquote the bible by taking things
out of context but don't let it hurt your faith. God bless!
edit on 1-12-2010 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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God does communicate with All mankind. Through Meditation and Prayer you too can have a one on one with the Creator.

The question, Does the Creator command Humans to Kill one another? absolutely NOT. Then why do Humans act is such a manner? They have not sought a True dialog themselves with the Creator and have allowed another Human to “tell” them what the Creator commands. In doing so the lose their own Humanity and control over their own will. Yes every major faith you find these followers willing to do their Masters will, even if it is an act so deplorable they will damage their own Soul. They are the Truly Lost.

Each major religion has their “Book”, but each of these “Books” were written by men. The “Words” of your Father are written on your “heart”. Each of us knows good from evil but not all of us choose good over evil.

So the moral of this story is let NO other Man or Book tell you what you should believe or do. Go straight to the Source in Prayer and Meditation and find your own path.

PS, I do enjoy the story of Abraham and the Lord. The Lord keeps dropping by Abrahams house every time he has a Bar-B-Q. I love that.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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That is a difficult question to answer. I'm going to answer from more a Jewish perspective then a Christian or Muslim Perspective.

Nature as Divine Communication

The beginning of the Torah describes G-d's creation of the Universe. The account of the six days of creation culminating in Shabbat, and of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, is so simple that it can be taught to a young child. At the same time it is wonderfully profound. The Talmud, Midrash and Zohar are ancient Jewish works which explain at great length the significance of the opening chapters of the Torah. A point worth noting is that the universe, nature, is itself a communication to us from G-d. The vastness, the boundless variety, the sense of structure and the sense of a constant interplay of dynamic forces express something about G-d, who causes every detail in the universe to exist. A painting in an art gallery tells us something about the painter; existence tells us something about G-d. Jewish Sages present this as one of the reasons for creation: the communication to humanity of some aspect, at least, of the quality of the Divine. This idea is embodied in the Hebrew language: one of the names of G-d--Elokim--has the same numerical value as the Hebrew word for "nature," hateva. Through contemplating existence, whether with the naked eye, a microscope or a radio telescope, a person can come closer to awareness of the Divine.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


Hello freedish, thanks for the reply.

I am very familiar with the Holy Bible, Old and New Testament. I would fully agree with you from a Christian stand-point. God was so close to His first human Adam, that it is written God walked with Adam in the Garden. Then after the whole forbidden fruit event, God distanced Himself, but still openly spoke with Adam and his children. Then after humans became more wicked and sinful, God cut contact except with chosen few and prophets. And it is illustrated that once a people asked for a sign and got it, they later went again into sin.

But why must I rely on ancient manuscripts from one single nation... Hebrew Israelites through their Torah/Old Testament?

And one single man Jesus? And the corruption, additions, omissions, and mistranslation of the New Testament? Politics overriding truth since St. Paul the Antichrist... the Nicene and Carthage Councils... Emperor Constantine and King James... and the Vatican just to name the most popular and obvious.

And another single man Muhammad? At least he addressed the issue. Islam says every nation was given messengers and prophets, but they all went astray, and Muhammad was the final prophet to correct the religion of Abraham.



• If the God of Abraham is All Loving and All Merciful, why does He command His followers to murder non-believers?

• If He is All Knowing and All Merciful, why does He not give every human the opportunity to experience Him instead of just special prophets?

• George Bush and Obama can talk to the entire world, why doesn't God?

• How do I even know if I can trust any prophet? Because they quote prophets before them? And they are right because God gives them power to defeat and murder their enemies?

• My mother cries and my father feels pain when two of their children fight. If we are all God's children and He loves us more than our parents, why does He tell believers to murder non-believers? Is my parents' love stronger than His? Is He only a part-time loving God?

• Why doesn't God just show Himself on a massive grand-scale so people can choose obedience or disobedience based on His Absolute Truth by manifestation? Instead of being ordered to death for being hesitant about belief in the unknown/unseen? To follow a prophet by tactics of fear-mongering of Hell Fire?

• Where's the All Loving and All Mercy in the above questions/statements?



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Please, I respectfully do not want to hear the excuse, "God no longer shows Himself or talks out loud from the Heavens because of the disobedience of our ancestors." I will rebut this claim and also squash Original Sin while I'm at it!



"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Deuteronomy 24:16




"But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."
Jeremiah 31:30




"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
Ezekiel 18:20




"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour."
1 Corinthians 3:8




"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."
Galatians 6:7-9



Children are not saturated in Original Sin, because Jesus said;



"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14




According to these verses, God can not hold against me if my ancestors disobeyed after He showed Himself or spoke loudly from the Heavens! I did not disobey after experiencing Him, because He never showed Himself on a massive grand-scale to me and this living generation, nor did He speak out loud from Heaven to us. Our ancestors disobeyed after manifest signs, not me, not us! The son shall not bear the sin of the father!!!



The above quoted verses from both the Old Testament and New Testament indicate that each person is responsible for their own sin, that the son shall not bear the sin of his father, and that the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those with hearts as pure as children. That's what the verses say, and God says He isn't the author of confusion;


"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
1 Corinthians 14:33



So why is the God of Abraham being so shy and playing favorites with who He speaks to?



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by brokedown
 



Nice post.

I also do not believe an All Loving, All Merciful, All Knowing, and All Powerful God would actually command murder. And I do not believe an Omnipotent God would manifest Himself to a select few and tell these individuals to kill in His name. Murder those that have not been given Truth or Guidance. Murder those in ignorance. Murder those that do not believe the words of a man.

What's better, a believer that steals, rapes, lies, and murders, or a non-believer that lives a righteous, humble, and pious life? I too believe we must all follow our own paths towards all things good and beneficial to ourselves and fellow humans.

However, this thread is addressing the literal God of Abraham from the Torah, Holy Bible, and Qur'an. It seems where Abraham's God goes, we do not see Him but we see the blood shed in His name. No one has seen Him, Abraham's Vengeful and Murderous God, except His prophets and those of ancient times long forgotten. He says we are responsible for our own sins, not those of our fathers... so He should walk with all of us as He walked with Adam... at least once... and let us choose obedience or disobedience.

What made Moses and Joshua righteous prophets? Because they laid waste to their enemies and murdered in God's name? What made Jesus a righteous prophet? Because his followers spread salvation in his name by the sword? What made Muhammad a righteous prophet? Because he conquered pagans in the name of God?

An All Loving, All Merciful God would love me and walk with me as He did with Adam... not command His followers to smite me at the throat!



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


I am just going to reply to the one part you quoted from the Bible
2 Chronicles 15:

""""[12] And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;
[13] That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.""""
You did not include the rest of the verse to explain what is being said,
[8] And when Asa heard these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and put away the abominable idols out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities which he had taken from mount Ephraim, and renewed the altar of the LORD, that was before the porch of the LORD.
[9] And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God was with him.

The verse you chose with out any other thing makes it look as though they are going out of their own land to do this.

What it is saying is that the people that lived in Israel that did not follow God would be put to death.

Now I will assume you are not a spiritual person in the belief of God as Lord and savior, and with that you do not study the word of God to understand what and why the Old Testament People lived by this standard.

But hey just look around you here in American where we allow all kinds of standards to happen and ask your self does this if it feels good do it attitude and live and let live life style is it really working to everyone's advantage the way you expected it to???

I am in Know why justifying the actions of using religion to kill anyone.

But I will also say the Pope is not a Christian nor a follower of the Teaching of Jesus Christ as he did not say to murder thy neighbor or enemy, but to love one another and to love thy enemy, to forgive. We are to abhor the sins committed by others but to pray for those who commit these sins. We are to separate our selves from them but live among them as examples letting our lives be an example of what they should be like.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
 


It's a nice explanation. That the universe, existence, earth, and nature are a form of expression, communication from our Creator. Very nice indeed!

However, why is Abraham's God avoiding open manifestation of showing Himself and speaking out loud from the Heavens if we do not bear the sins of our fathers? Why does God expect us to follow a select few with no evidence other than words and murderous conquest in His name? I feel that a Loving and Merciful God would do better than commanding murder and condemning non-believers to eternal torment when I would not wish torment on anyone other than rapists, child molesters, and murderers. So am I more loving than Abraham's God?



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


That's is what I'm trying to find for you. As a person who has his own belief in God. I explain my views from a Jewish perspective. Like my earlier post I mentioned how God is all around us and if you ask a Jew for a proof of God then they will mention he's all around. God cannot be captured or what not. Now when Moses was leading the Israelis or early Jews. God spoke (National Revelation) to the people. Basically when Moses (after the miracles) was communicating with God. The people noticed and had fear in their hearts.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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Yes, one prophet at a time, until Jesus came along. It's called progressive revelation. But since Jesus came and did his thing it's available to all.

Let's be real clear at what is available - The Word of God can now live inside the disciple. This is done by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is union with the Father and it births into ones being, the Son of Man, and because he is from and of the Father - that makes him the Son of God. This is the "revelation" that is supposed to make the Jews jelous. This is the knowledge they have been blinded to. A certain number of gentiles must attain this knowledge first (I do not know the number) and when the full number comes in, the Jews will end up believing. A lot of the Apostle Paul's teachings were on how to act until the revelation of the Messiah comes to the Jews.

This is salvation - the helmet of salvation and God owns the copyright. There is no other path that can produce such intimate knowledge of God.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


I would have to disagree with your statement. Because many people can disprove Jesus divinity and what he really was or even if he was real. My views of God and I can use the so called OT to back up views to prove the comment you posted has many holes. In other words Jesus is not the only way to God. I don't even believe in Jesus and Jesus to me goes against God.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 


May Peace be upon you.

So, are you implying that murdering non-believers is ok, just as long as they are non-believers of the tribe of Israel? So was Adolf Hitler justified? Because regardless the context of which non-believers that particular verse says to murder, it is still saying to murder non-believers. I will give you a couple supplemental verses with context a bit later, I'm currently away from my library and notes.



Now I will assume you are not a spiritual person in the belief of God as Lord and savior, and with that you do not study the word of God to understand what and why the Old Testament People lived by this standard.


Today I am more spiritual than ever, but I am not a Christian. I was raised as a Christian by my mother and Buddhist by my father. At the age of accountability, I chose the path of monotheism through Christianity. I obsessively studied the Bible in its entirety with a sincere and open heart. I fasted and prayed in the name of Jesus with utmost love and devotion. I studied religion in theology school and correspondence courses, I almost became a preacher. I left Christianity upon learning the history of the Holy Bible, the history of early Christianity, and Christian doctrine and dogma versus literal Biblical teachings. I am extremely spiritual, but I do not subscribe to Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

If you want to justify what and why the Old Testament People lived by the standard illustrated in the Torah, then why not give this same justification to Muslims that engage in jihad fisbillah (Holy War in the name of God)? After all, they too worship Abraham's God, and their call to violence is strikingly similar to the Hebrew Israelites of the Old Testament.

Do you belong to any specific Christian denomination or sect? I find it odd that you say the Pope is not a Christian. Are you aware that Catholicism was Christianity from 313 AD until the early 1500's with the rise of the Protestant Reformation? The Catholic Church, for the most part, created the Bible in considering which books to canonize and standardized most of the Christian doctrine we still we today.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
 


I would also like to include how the Torah is Eternal. Basically the Torah will never get old or will never be invalid.
The Eternal Torah

This is not a difficult concept to grasp. The prophets repeatedly told us that we have to perform the Torah forevermore, and then Paul came along and said otherwise. That makes Paul a false prophet, because he contradicted Moses. G-d formulated the Torah. The Torah is perfection. For a Christian to say the Torah is anything less is to insult G-d. G-d gave the Torah to Moses. Moses taught it to the children of Israel. Moses told us that this was the way it was going to be forever. It's that simple.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by Romantic_Rebel
 


Great point!

Sticking strictly and literally to the Holy Bible, we can see that St. Paul the Antichrist not only contradicts the Old Testament, but he also contradicts Jesus as illustrated in the Gospels. St. Paul the Antichrist never even met Jesus, and he even disagreed with and argued against Jesus' real disciples!

It's all in the Bible, plain and simple... if one were to read it in it's entirety while ignoring doctrine, dogma, and what preacher said.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


Even though i don't believe in Jesus. I see him as possibly some Jewish man in the pass who became a folk hero. That is why I believe there are so many different views on him. From Christianity, Islam and other religious beliefs.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:56 AM
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Can any Christian or Muslim please explain to me in a logical fashion why the God of Abraham does not walk with us as He did with Adam in the Garden, or talk to us loudly from Heaven as He did with Adam's early descendants, or manifest His glory as He did in the presence of Moses?

Answer this question while considering my 3rd post in this thread:

reply to post by Sahabi
 


This is, God turned away from us for disobedience, but He clearly says we do not bear the sins of our fathers. I want God to walk with me and talk with me and manifest His glory to me as He is said to have done in the Old Testament / Torah.

We do not bear the sins of our fathers... it was our ancient ancestors that disobeyed God after clear signs were given, not me!

So is the God of Abraham according to the Torah, Bible, and Qur'an a liar?



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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A theory is something that hasn't been proven yet. You seem eager to want to believe by saying things like God spoke to the prophets of the OT or how Holy the Torah is but it's like you guys stick your fingers in your ears at the mention of the name Jesus.

I feel like I'm beating my poor little head against a wall here, so let's try it again.Lol

Get your minds out of the physical for a moment and think spirit.

The Holy Spirit cannont be seen. It did not show up on the porch of the prophet Isaiah and knock and tell him 'Hey I need to talk to you, can I come in?' Isaiah is the only prophet who tells it like it is - all the others (except Daniel) merely say at the beginning of their testimony 'The Word of God came to (insert a name)." Isaiah says an angel took tongs and got a hot coal and touched his lips with it and it made him clean. This is the fire of God and how the process of baptism starts. This is the truth and this is exactly what John the Baptist said would come after him. You guys are looking for a physical Messiah and that is your downfall. Your hearts are far from God because you don't even realize that you are just as worthy as any prophet of old to have the same experiences as them.

I think if there was any other name connected to the baptism you would long to look into these matters but for some of you - you don't want to be wrong and the name Jesus just pisses you off.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 

Because last time he turned up men crucified him.



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