Originally posted by Shamanistical
First off, a worker is paid whatever wage THEY agreed to at hiring. Nobody is forced to work for less than what they feel they need, want, or
Really? You either haven't been in the job world very long, or you have a skill that is highly in demand.
Do you really think unskilled labour gets to negotiate their wage? In what fantasy world does that happen?
So all the folks that work minimum wage jobs are doing it because they want, or deserve, minimum wage?
Capitalism creates an artificial scarcity of work, and needed resources, in order to maintain their control of the economy. Workers are not in a
position to make demands (the reason we had unions in the first place). People are coerced to work far more than they need to because of the
artificial scarcity of resources.
I myself have turned down many jobs in the past because they were beneath my qualifications, experience, talents, skills, and income
Well woopty doo you for you. You are obviously not one of the 80% of the world population earning less than $10 a day. You are simply lucky.
Capitalism does not guarantee you work, or freedom.
I've also NOT been offered jobs at wages I desired because I was NOT QUALIFIED or either not the best candidate. That's the way it is suppose
to work, it's all voluntary you know. You also have the option to start your own business and run it any way you want and pay your employees whatever
pleases them too. Or just work for yourself and hire nobody and keep all the net income for yourself.
I'm not sure what all this has to do with what I've been saying. I, and you, also have the option to start a worker owned cooperative business, and
be part of the solution to the problems of our economy.
I hope you realise that not everyone can own a business right? I hear a lot of people who think this. I'd like to know who is going to work for you
if everyone owns their own business.
Anyhow, what you seem to want already exists. If you want to share in the profit of publicly held/owned companies, buy some stock in them.
You can do that tomorrow and achieve your desire to reap more rewards.
No that is not what I want. You seem to be unable to conceive of a system that is beneficial for us all, not just what YOU can get out of it by
exploiting others (paying them whatever pleases YOU).
Profits made by labour should go to labour, not share holders or private owners. They are parasites living off of others labour imo. People who
don't contribute to society but suck off of it, exploiting people and situations, not to help improve the world but to simply feed their own ego and
And oh yeah, if you think you are entitled to some of the profit of a publicly held business, then you must also be willing to share in the
risks and losses too, because THAT is how it is suppose to work for publicly owned businesses.
I don't think I am entitled to anything, it's not about me honey.
'Publicly owned business' in a capitalist system is not the same as a worker ran cooperative business under socialism. The socialism I talk about is
nothing to do with the capitalist term of 'public ownership' meaning government owned, I call that nationalism. Again socialism is simply an economic
system whereby companies are cooperatively worker owned and ran. This means more people benefit from the profits made. The 'private owner'
(capitalist who makes their living from their capital and the exploitation of labour) is not necessary. They are just sucking us all dry.
A worker ran cooperative business means all employees are responsible for the risks of the business they cooperatively run. You do know what a
cooperative is right?
As for privately owned businesses, nobody is entitled to any of the PROFITS except the owner(s) because it's THEIR capital that's invested in
the business that's at risk, not any employees, and he/she can do with it as they please because it's all theirs. Period.
Their capital that was created through exploitation of labour/people. Capital doesn't come out of thin air, capitalists do not do any labour to
create wealth from capital, they HAVE to exploit labour in order to make profit from their capital. So is it really THEIR capital? Most of the
wealth that made America the wealthy country it is came from slave labour, and war. Without that exploitation of people YOU might not have been lucky
enough to turn down work, period. It's not because capitalism is so great.
Have you ever tried to own and operate your own business and make a profit for yourself? THAT is how you convince YOURSELF. Why should it be
someone else's responsibility to convince you of this or that? You don't seem to believe me and what I have to say, and I speak from experience. I
guess you'll have to prove this for yourself and until you've sat in the CEOs seat of your own privately own business, you really don't know what you
are talking about, you lack experience.
Running your own business is NOT capitalism. Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production.
If I was to start a business it would a cooperative, part of the solution not the problem. I have no desire to make myself wealthy exploiting others.
Wealth is a ghetto.
Oh, also, a JOB is NOT a RIGHT. And neither is a "desire" income. A "right" can not and must not impose a demand upon another to DO
something for YOU in order to create/fulfill that (so-called) "right" for you. And besides, how can you make such demands of others? Maybe I can do
the same and demand you do this and that for me. Come on, ha, make me a job I will like, and pay me what "I" have determined to be fair for me, ha.
Come on, you've made such demands of others, can we not make the same demands of you?
Oh dear, no one ever said it was. No one is demanding anything. Again do you know how a cooperative works? No single private owner, all workers own
the company and are all equally responsible.
It's simply a more fair way to distribute the profits made from the market that we all are part of.
Freedom, man, it's great for those that can handle it. Sounds like it sucks though for those that can't deal with so much freedom and
responsibility for themselves and their lives.
What is that supposed to mean? Do you really think you're free, why, because you're told you are?
Capitalism is a private form of state where the owners get to determine what happens with their 'property' therefore having a monopoly of power and
Oh, BTW, the day I can earn a larger return on my net worth by merely depositing it in a bank than running a small business, that will be the day 28
people loose their job, I auction everything off, and put my eggs in the bank.
Great for you eh?
Not so great for the 28 laid off.
edit on 24-12-2010 by Wally Hope because: typo