America bashing threads...

reply to post by wayno


here is a thought, maybe jealous nations just want the US to step aside.

Originally posted by Soldier of God
I am totally amazed that even with all we have in common which is what brought us all here from every corner of the earth in the first place, that we can't put all of the childish name calling threads away. We are ALL in deep sh*t like it or not and you would think a small community of like-minded individuals could ban together to discuss the things we all hold dear like adults without all of the trolling for fights.
Personally I think the administration should ban threads that instigate fighting and name calling. Furthermore they should ban the members who start the threads.
I guess our little biosphere is proof that we as a race are doomed. If we can't even get along to discuss the worlds problems there is absolutely no way we will ever see the day they are solved.

Any one else sick of this???

I think people get along just fine, its the virtual environment like this which allows people to not hold back which means you see people's prejudices in the open. It is a reflection of the human psyche. I think people are amazingly civil given that there is complete anonymity.

As for the real world, its our leaders that cause the hate. People are the same everywhere (relatively). I think people are starting to band together with like-minded individuals, I have seen it a lot more in the last year than I have ever seen before. Maybe I just live in a lucky area.

Is all this talk leading to the conclusion that only Americans have "private chats". I mean, no other place in the world they have people who say things to certain people that they wouldn't tell another certain group of people?

When wikileaks said they were going to expose Russia, they simply said they would shut down wikileaks and kill the collaborators.

Maybe that is why this "brave" guy (who is currently hiding) hasn't done it to Russia?

Maybe the U.S. is the only nation that has spies? Corruption?

Uh ,... yeah.

Originally posted by wayno
Here is a thought. If America doesn't like the heat from being in the spotlight, why not just step aside?

Your government has taken it upon itself to meddle in everyone else's business for reasons that have nothing to do with "help" or aid, but for entirely selfish purposes. That is the reason why people in the rest of the world resent you.

Just because you, as a typical American citizen, are ignorant of what your government, under the control of major corporations, has been doing for so long, does not mean that we should leave you alone in your state of ignorance compounded by an air of superiority and smugness.

If you want a different responce from the rest of the world then do something to change those circumstances.

Please.

Are you serious??? Do you think that your government isn't controlled by corporations and isn't just as, if not more corrupt than the U.S.????
WOW... talk about naive!

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reply to post by Soldier of God

Are you serious??? Do you think that your government isn't controlled by corporations and isn't just as, if not more corrupt than the U.S.????
WOW... talk about naive!

No government anywhere today is without influence from corporate interests, but there is definitely a difference between countries as to the degree of it.

My country is Canada. HUGE difference between our international reputation and yours. Our traditional role has been that of "peacekeeper" while yours has been warmonger. I could go on all day, but I one thing is for sure, there is no naivete on my part. Just ask anyone, from anywhere in the world -- there is a load of difference between the way our two governments work.

That is not accidental. It is because we Canadians want it that way in spite of what corporations might try to influence us to do. No, we are far from perfect, but certainly not "worse" than you.

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer
reply to post by wayno

 

here is a thought, maybe jealous nations just want the US to step aside.

Please remove the cotton wool. Who the hell would want to be in their shoes right now, let alone jealous?

That is laughable. Don't get me wrong tho. I am not getting any joy out of seeing the mess the US is in. I would like nothing more than to see it pull up its bootstraps and get itself back on the right track, but I see little hope of that happening -- far too much denial going on by the majority; thoroughly brainwashed and/or confused.

reply to post by wayno



wayno,


Don't let the perceived ignorance and arrogance of others send you down the path in which one will stoop to their level. You know as well as I do that there are plenty of fine open minded ATS Americans here. Let's not start with the generalizations please.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I am well aware of the diversity of ATSers and of Americans in general. I don't think there is any doubt or question however, that far too few; especially in the general population, are up on the issues that we talk about here, or even care about them for that matter.

I do believe that it is the majority who, for whatever reason, don't want to concern themselves with the problems of America vs the world. I don't hesitate to say that most Americans still give little thought to it; in spite of all that is happening. There is an insular, naval-gazing that goes on that prevents people from looking or caring about anything outside of America.

Not everyone, by a long shot, but yes, the majority are still that way. Until they can be aroused to look at what the US government, military and corporate giants are doing around the world I am afraid there will not be much change. There will not be a reason for the rest of the world to take a fresh view of Americans.

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer
reply to post by wayno

 

here is a thought, maybe jealous nations just want the US to step aside.

This is an honest question - not just to you - to all in this thread.

People (and nations) are usually competitive and want to be "#1". This is true of the most of the most powerful countries in the world.

Say the US stepped aside and fell from most powerful to say #5 or #6 of the top 10 most powerful countries in the world.

Another country would logically assume the most powerful position. Likely China and Russia would try the hardest for this and one of them would likely achieve it.

Do you feel the world would be a better place with China or Russia as the most powerful country instead of the US?

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I am well aware of the diversity of ATSers and of Americans in general. I don't think there is any doubt or question however, that far too few; especially in the general population, are up on the issues that we talk about here, or even care about them for that matter.

That's your perception. Everybody has one. I have my own. I know for fact that I have been wrong in the past and will be wrong in the future. Have you considered the possibility of your own possible human frailty?

I do believe that it is the majority who, for whatever reason, don't want to concern themselves with the problems of America vs the world.

Stop right there. So now you are speaking for the "World" ? Come on Wayno, This isn't "America vs the World" let's not confuse pop culture internet opinion on a conspiracy site with the real world as a whole.

I don't hesitate to say that most Americans still give little thought to it; in spite of all that is happening. There is an insular, naval-gazing that goes on that prevents people from looking or caring about anything outside of America.

This is true to a certain extent. [Far be it from me to defend self imposed ignorance] However I've also noticed that a large percentage of ATS members are from many countries around the world. Yet compared to those known numbers we hear very little from them as well and not all participate in discussion and or debate. So what does this tell us?

They are giving little thought?, That they are insular naval-gazing which prevents them from looking or caring about anything outside of their country?

Not everyone, by a long shot, but yes, the majority are still that way.

Herein lies the problem We make sweeping generalizations. ATS has what? 200,000 members, yet a large percentage of them never post or reply. [The silent majority] We have no idea who they are or what they believe or think.

Until they can be aroused to look at what the US government, military and corporate giants are doing around the world I am afraid there will not be much change. There will not be a reason for the rest of the world to take a fresh view of Americans.

Again you and a few thousand here at ATS speak for all 6,500,000,000 Earthlings?
It's a drop in the bucket on a conspiracy site.

I'm just saying is all....

Originally posted by Frogs

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer
reply to post by wayno

 

here is a thought, maybe jealous nations just want the US to step aside.

This is an honest question - not just to you - to all in this thread.

People (and nations) are usually competitive and want to be "#1". This is true of the most of the most powerful countries in the world.

Say the US stepped aside and fell from most powerful to say #5 or #6 of the top 10 most powerful countries in the world.

Another country would logically assume the most powerful position. Likely China and Russia would try the hardest for this and one of them would likely achieve it.

Do you feel the world would be a better place with China or Russia as the most powerful country instead of the US?

I guess there is a fundamental fact that comes between our understanding of each other. Canadians have absolutely no desire whatsoever to be #1 head honcho in the world. Probably because it would be an impossiblility anyway, . Because Americans have been, it remains an issue for you.

Although I believe you have failed miserably at the role, no, I do not prefer China or Russia as #1. What I want is either for you guys to do a better job of it, (although the maxim of power corrupts probably makes that impossible), or for there to be some international body that oversees things.

Understand that I believe whoever is #1 will be corrupted by that power and we will have to be ever vigilant against it. Sooo.... as long as you strive to be that power, understand that the rest of us are going to do our utmost to keep you from becoming too corrupt.

You need us to be critical of you. You need to listen to the criticism; otherwise you will in fact be no better than Russia or China in terms of how you abuse and take advantage of non-citizens.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

Are you serious??? Do you think that your government isn't controlled by corporations and isn't just as, if not more corrupt than the U.S.????
WOW... talk about naive!

No government anywhere today is without influence from corporate interests, but there is definitely a difference between countries as to the degree of it.

My country is Canada. HUGE difference between our international reputation and yours. Our traditional role has been that of "peacekeeper" while yours has been warmonger. I could go on all day, but I one thing is for sure, there is no naivete on my part. Just ask anyone, from anywhere in the world -- there is a load of difference between the way our two governments work.

That is not accidental. It is because we Canadians want it that way in spite of what corporations might try to influence us to do. No, we are far from perfect, but certainly not "worse" than you.

Yes you are correct because your govt. would rather just rob it's own people, they're not on the international playing field.
It isn't that Canadians are inherently more honest and decent, it's that they are subjected to a culture of "soft” corruption. They don't have policemen holding out their hands for bribes, as these actions are too crass. They do have the soft corruption of politicians treating themselves lavishly at the public's expense. Their civil servants and heads of crown corporations tend to be particularly adept at bending the rules when it comes to between meal feedings at the public trough.


www2.macleans.ca...

reply to post by SLAYER69


I don't necessarily speak for the whole world -- wow, never in a million years did that thought ever cross my mind.

On the other hand, this thread was started by an American because he/she did indeed perceive there to be a lot of "criticism" out there of Americans by others. I am a non American, not a particularly abused one as Canada and the US have had fairly sensible and have had mutually beneficial relations most of the time -- less so recently, but I can definitely relate to what people around the world say about you. Being so close, in spite of our historical friendliness, I know all about your warts, your occasional bad breath and yes, your occasional insanity too, as well as your accomplishments.

Like a brother, or friend, I want more than anything for you, as a people, to wake up, shake off the cobwebs, and take once again the role that you once played so well, of example to the world. The facts are that America is not what it used to be. The people are in a conundrum. It hurts me being so close. You have in fact made my existence, and the rest of the world's existence less safe, less honourable, less hopeful than it has ever been. It is a terrible burden, but you bear it. Full on!

reply to post by wayno


I am curious. I realize you hate Americans. You have stated this in an earlier post.

Then, you state "who in the hell would want to be in your shoes right now?"

To be honest with you, I like wearing my own shoes. I don't want anyone else to be in them. A lot of people would die to be in my shoes and would kill to be in my shoes. I don't really need to be reminded of that.

I like my shoes.

Now for my question, what makes you think I care?

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Soldier of God

 

Are you serious??? Do you think that your government isn't controlled by corporations and isn't just as, if not more corrupt than the U.S.????
WOW... talk about naive!

No government anywhere today is without influence from corporate interests, but there is definitely a difference between countries as to the degree of it.

My country is Canada. HUGE difference between our international reputation and yours. Our traditional role has been that of "peacekeeper" while yours has been warmonger. I could go on all day, but I one thing is for sure, there is no naivete on my part. Just ask anyone, from anywhere in the world -- there is a load of difference between the way our two governments work.

That is not accidental. It is because we Canadians want it that way in spite of what corporations might try to influence us to do. No, we are far from perfect, but certainly not "worse" than you.

It is very interesting that a nation that can't even fight itself out of a wet paper bag would call one that can a warmonger.

Sure .... its about .... um ... peace .... yeah.

reply to post by wayno


Forgive me - I must run in a few mins so a short reply.

I can understand and accept that. It makes perfect sense and I agree with it. We have (I feel) thus far been able to discuss this and learn each others thoughts and ideas without dropping to the level of swapping insults.

That's great! That is how real understanding and change can occur.

Its when it gets down to trading insults that no progress is made either way. Both sides are guilty of that in this (and many other) arguments here on ATS at times and in the world as a whole.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer

Now for my question, what makes you think I care?

It is very interesting that a nation that can't even fight itself out of a wet paper bag would call one that can a warmonger.

Sure .... its about .... um ... peace .... yeah.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Your posts have gone so much further than you realize to illustrate some of the very points I have been trying to make about the way America likes to dislplay itself to the world.

Originally posted by wayno
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Your posts have gone so much further than you realize to illustrate some of the very points I have been trying to make about the way America likes to dislplay itself to the world.

One person doesn't speak for all 310,000,000