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Hidden Hand Message Discussion -

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posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by ThreeDeuce
 



These "hard to swallow" parts will be the most refuted parts of the HH message.

Like :

How has no one refuted his claim that the earth is hollow.??
That Lucifer is not a single entity??
That abductions are done with help from the government??
Has no one refuted that 33rd degree Masons are introduced to Lucifer??

But, people pay attention to what they want, and have yet to discuss any of these controversial topics in depth


Nah Lucifer is not a single entity, my understanding is that lucifer is a metaphorical personification of undivine forces and intelligence that are the result of the ignorant misuse of free will. The translation 'light bearer' may not seem to fit as one would think Lucifer is of darkness... but... ponder this, all evil presents us with an opportunity to learn, learning means gaining knowledge and knowledge = light so in a way lucifer sheds light on us about how not to be.

I wouldnt be thinking meeting lucifer is a handshake with a physical being... more likely a meditative or altered state style experience where they meet the bearer of the light/knowledge they have been recieving. Still its not such a profound experience as Lucifer is still a fallen part of the temporal illusory universe. The last words of the Bhudda before enlightenment were "Mara [or Lucifer], you do not exist."


That abductions are done with help from the government??


Many abductees claim to be on an operating style table being attended to by earth looking humans, in earth style clothing and technology not too far from our own, but with greys also present in the room or doing the initial abduction. Remember the government made a deal with them for technology, allowing them to abduct us. Perhaps the gov now sees the advantage in abductions to derailing people who threaten their agenda, over the old school tactics like mind control, psi ops etc.



If HH's scenario is true, then they do not seek to gain anything by us having a negative ascension, they only gain by having a negative ascension themself. Also, one might believe that this close to 2012, that they would have nothing to lose in having full disclosure. Perhaps the instructions on disclosure came from the supreme galactic council, and because so is above any possible malevolant intent


I meant this sorta thing, as a positive if you were to go around harming others for the benefit of yourself then you will depolarize and risk making the positive harvest. As for HH if he selflessly spends his time and effort helping us learn then he will too risk depolarizing and missing the negative harvest. Unless of course, like your last sentence, he was made to do it, obviously he still has free will and can refuse but its most likely he was in a scenario where he saw it best for himself to play along, hence the act is actually self serving and not depolarizing.




posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 
Wow Lynn, thats one of the most beautiful things ive ever heard, really! i never knew that. Buddha refused to enter heaven without everyone else. I dont know what to say i dont have the words.
Aside from that, isnt it a difficult thing changing or even considering different possibilities about things that you have been taught all your life to be true. HH's definitions of Jehovah and Lucifer, i cannot say that he isnt telling us truths here. The God of the old testament was a jealous possesive egotistical creature, i went to bed last night thinking about his command to Abraham to sacrifice his only son. I put myself in abrahams position, i would sacrifice myself to God because my faith in him is strong, but my child would not possibly be able to comprehend that trust, what sort of God would terrify a child with the prospect of impending death? Ive also been thinking deeply about what he said about Lucifer, did he free us from a controlling logos by giving us the knowledg of everything, Is this the biggest lie; ? that the church has turned lucifer into something he is not and never was. YOU CANT HAVE THE WHITE WITHOUT THE BLACK. All food for thought.
By the way, its good to be here friends, i think ive p**sed off a couple of people on the original HH thread, when i feel strongly about something i have say, itll be my downfall....



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by thedoctorswife
 


Thanks for that....Im glad it touched someone the way it did me. Things like that make me cry


Ill share something though try to keep it simple for I know the OP doesnt want this thread to go off topic. But this is about service to self and to others.

I was once very deep in studying the Law of One material. I was on the path of thinking ascension was something I came here for and that I came here to help others. After my mothers NDE...I experienced a time slip of sorts (for 2 months I thought I was a year older then what I really was and experienced other people around me 'seeing another me' in my home. For the most past these people seeing this 'other me' are not really spiritual and dont look for that kinda thing and usually they were left dumbfounded when they found the real me somewhere besides where they thought they saw me. I wonder sometimes if in a sense, since I was going through this big time of 'choosing' if there was another me with me lol....awaiting my 'choice'. Well one evening this storm was coming and all day before the storm got to my area I knew it was coming, I could feel the enrgy coming on me like a wave of energy pushing me and I pretty much felt pushed into the need to meditate (which I rarely do meditate). I took some time to clear my mind.....tried to find that stillness. I then felt as if I was flying through space or space was flying through me, it was really weird. As this was happening....I felt the need to make a choice of to stay or to go. The choice laid upon me was heavy. As the heaviness become more and more....I found myself standing at the edge of what I can only describe as a black hole. I felt as if I could go through it and just 'go on' somewhere else if that is what I wanted. But an emense weight of others fell upon me, how many more are still in need of the vibration of love to be more known in them, how many more still will go through what we call suffering and not knowing. How could I just leave....all these other selves of me behind. My 'self'....longed to go. My 'Spirit'.....longed to stay. As soon as I defined my choice as absolute, I even said it out loud...."I stay". I felt that this was what it was all about.....our final choice in our hearts....of weighing if we still live for our self, more then for the all of others.

All I know is....no more sightings of this 'other me' were seen again. I wonder sometimes if there was a merging of sorts, or a vibration change that was available through choice and the energy of the storm around me. Mabey in life we all have that 'moment' or maybe there are many moments......when the weight comes upon us to allow us to choose what we are going to live for.

I had just read that Buddha story about a week ago and it brought me back to that experience I had and I cried out of the love that Buddha had for all other 'parts of Spirit'.

How can we move onto a heaven or other places of joy and peace, when other selves are still here? Is all beliefs and experiences a way to measure this in us to see what we are living for, to see if there are any that are seeing the unity that we are and choosing to live for that more then for the "I" that we think we are?

Since that moment, I have not worried about a harvest or ascension. I think we can raise the vibration of the soul at many times in life....even take leaps if we are ready. I dont think such things take us beyond to other places....but in a sense...it does take the soul to another 'state of being'.

My best always
LV



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo



What if....until we are all like the Buddah who refused to enter heaven without everyone else....we are all remaining in service to self and dont know it?


From what I know, for now you should work on yourself, the harvest will be a 1 by 1 event, the 'we' shall come afterwards.




if we are in service to our self, in the end of it all?


I see where you are coming from, it looks like it sts but you need to look at why do you help others?
The answer is because you love them, you ARE them. In the bigger picture you are sto instead.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by ThreeDeuce



I thought that they were 4th density souls that chose to stay behind and help us ascend to 4th destiny also. When he talked about 6th destiny, I think he was talking about the final ascension to 6th destiny.


Soul group Lucifer are 6th, nearly seventh density but chose to descend to help 'us' out by playing the 'bad' guy for us. If there are no villians, there are no heroes.

The final ascension is 8th density in which everyone becomes 'one' again. after that you may go on to another octave to 'play'.



posted on Dec, 3 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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ok i need help understanding what i consider to be a contradiction in the HH text. Starting from the beginning, our group soul creator is Yahweh, theirs is lucifer, lucifer has ascended higher than Yahweh. Our planet was originally an edenic paradise, yahweh was unhappy that we werent progressing, and called upon group soul lucifer to offer us the catalyst, the knowledge of good and evil, he thought wed stay loyal to him and refuse it but we didnt. Ok this is where i get confused, he says that council of elders gave them permission to leave against Yahwehs will, however they felt the need to stay and fulfil their commitment to us and our progression. Surely yahweh would have been glad to see them leave and have us return to edenic paradise we once had, any thoughts anyone or am i missing something.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by thedoctorswife
 
We're all missing some things. The account given by HH definitely leaves out a lot of pieces to the puzzle. If the scenario outlined by HH is true I can only speculate on why Yahweh would not permit "Lucifer" to leave. My speculation would be based on additional info found in the Bible to which HH freely refers. I would like to add at this point without deviating too far from the HH message. It may be useful for us to know that the word "tree" in the Bible is used in numerous places to symbolicly represent humans or other beings. I have read on another website recently of a very interesting enterpretation of what "eating from the tree" could be. I found the info on the website Theopenscroll.com under an article intitled "Who was Cains father". Btw the subject matter is of a very mature nature and certainly not for the narrow minded.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by thedoctorswife
Ok this is where i get confused, he says that council of elders gave them permission to leave against Yahwehs will, however they felt the need to stay and fulfil their commitment to us and our progression. Surely yahweh would have been glad to see them leave and have us return to edenic paradise we once had, any thoughts anyone or am i missing something.


With the apple story done, Yahweh was angry that we weren't on his side, so he trapped house Lucifer, and the council on Saturn ordered him to free them (Lucifer) and told them to leave us, but they decided not to and chose to help us all the way till 2012.

If house Lucifer left, as they have done their job by giving us a 'choice',we would be in the garden just going round in circles, never progressing, thats why Yahweh asked the council for help and Lucifer stepped in. In 3rd density you need to experience both positve and negative actions, but we need to be 51% sto so Lucifer plays the 'bad' guy for us. As it states in the Bible he (Yahweh) was a "jealous G-d."

HH did state all of this.

-Naeem

Btw reply to your signature, no the world wont end, just completes the transition to 4th density and yes Dfs sofa sales will still be on!!

edit on 4/12/2010 by naeem11111 because: reply to signature



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Fascinating stuff, and I was unaware of the law of one materials until now. I skimmed through the original thread; it reminds me of an experience I've written about on these boards before. About 5 years ago, I was going through a lot of conflict(still am, to a lesser degree). I got a visit, from 3 entities that looked very much like creatures on a native american totem pole. they appeared at the foot of my bed, and telepathically sent the phrase "make amends" several times. then it was over. I wonder how such creatures fit into the paradigm hidden hand describes..I'm defintely a lightworker(currrently a reiki practitioner), and I've been psychically attacked before. Think I need to get into the law of one stuff and take a deeper look at the mayan calendar....



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by thedoctorswife
ok i need help understanding what i consider to be a contradiction in the HH text. Starting from the beginning, our group soul creator is Yahweh, theirs is lucifer, lucifer has ascended higher than Yahweh. Our planet was originally an edenic paradise, yahweh was unhappy that we werent progressing, and called upon group soul lucifer to offer us the catalyst, the knowledge of good and evil, he thought wed stay loyal to him and refuse it but we didnt. Ok this is where i get confused, he says that council of elders gave them permission to leave against Yahwehs will, however they felt the need to stay and fulfil their commitment to us and our progression. Surely yahweh would have been glad to see them leave and have us return to edenic paradise we once had, any thoughts anyone or am i missing something.


Well not quite, because lucifer is helping us return to the edenic paradise. They provide negative catalyst, and the catalyst accelerates our growth, so by having them here we actually go home faster. Without the negativity we may become complacent and content with our home in the fallen world, having little motivation to return. Lucifer amplifies the horrible things that can happen by ignorently messing around with free will down here and shows us/hilights the consequences of such behaviour.

I also get the impression from many sources that yahweh is some sorta of fallen corrupt god himself with impure intentions, observed in some of his ruthless behaviours spoken of in the old testement. Who knows, maybe he doesnt wanna loose his little creation back to prime creator.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
What if....until we are all like the Buddah who refused to enter heaven without everyone else....we are all remaining in service to self and dont know it?

What if....life is just that, everything a way to measure, if we are truly ready to be in true service to 'all' or if we are in service to our self, in the end of it all?



Ill share a little story thats relevent to your question.

"So anyways I was Having a dream, not a normal dream, one of those ones people call "astral dreams" that often happen on top of regular dreaming and is preceeded by the normal obe vibrations etc. when I have plenty of time to sleep in. I went to an almost nothingness realm that was made of a pure warm white and golden light, where I had a body of light that was sorta transperent maybe because it was so light (less dense) and I met a very little old man (or was I very big?) who appeared in the form of an elf exept he was glowing, I knew he was a very wise old entity and began to talk telepathically (for some reason I dont have any urge to use vocal speach in such dreams, or often even remmeber that I can use sound vibration, telepathy is natural there) we greeted and began sending love light energy to each other, each time it would be sent between us the other would then send back more and back and fourth it goes untill our auras both expand and there is a strong connection between us. While talking to the elf thing I thought about him as though he couldnt hear (like a personal thought) and then realized he was still listening, it seemed nothing I thought was my own, everything about each other was instantly known to the other. There didnt appear to be a self or an other (but I didnt get confused and begin thinking I was the elf, I still knew which entity I had been experinecing self through) and then I got to thinking about true sto, like I had been contemplating previously. I realized there is no sto or sts, because there is no self or other, there is just the service to both....the elf cut me off "service to the one" he calmly replied. "

Where there is no such thing as individual self or other self, there cannot be sts or sto. There is only service to the one. If you identify others as being self, then by that definition then yes we are sts in the end.
The buddah would have experienced oneness (which is much different to believing it) and would see it foolish to only send such a tiny part(buddah) of himself(all humanity) to heaven so would have wanted to leave his self portion behind to help the rest, its the only sane thing to do after oneness is experienced.

Remember how Ra says he cannot see the difference between us, when the look at earth they only see one being here.

Its because our seperation is an illusion, so sts and sto is also an illusion. Heck the whole duality right back to divine masculine and feminine is even an illusion.

I also strongly dissagree with HH when he says time/space is real but space/time is the illusion. The actual concept of space or of time themselves are both illusions, so while time/space or astral might be more real than here its still no where near reality.

HH's lack of understanding here, but again more consistency with (fairly)popular new age beliefs suggests he's not genuine. Surely he would know better than to think time/space is real.... unless he meant more real.


edit on 4-12-2010 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2010 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior
Without the negativity we may become complacent and content with our home in the fallen world, having little motivation to return.


So, do you think we are in a neatively polarized world?
If this is so, is this because what we have done in our last world?



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by ThreeDeuce

So, do you think we are in a neatively polarized world?


Yeah for sure, take a look around, I dont just mean all the wars etc but the selfishness. Its not all that negative due to there being positive people in it but overall there is more negativity than positivity. The core of negativity being service to the self, so even donating to charity can be a negative action if done to serve the self like for example companies who give big checks just to get advertising they dont care about the recepient of the donation only care about what they have to gain for themselves. Many seemingly selfless actions may actually be based on self service. Compared to a positive planet, this place is hellish.


If this is so, is this because what we have done in our last world?


Somewhere, at some point, we brought it all on ourselves. It probably began with the events leading to the initial fall and seperation from God, then we kept falling further and further before finally reaching dense physicality, then we just kept spiralling down all the while ignoring the many warnings and kept acting in a way that further bound us here...... we are the ones that made our world how it is. We invited malevelent forces here by our ignorence and actions amoungst each other, and then we have the audacity to blame our problems on them!



edit on 4-12-2010 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by polarwarrior
 


I have to agree with you polar. What made me think this was when he said

"but in this Density, you are here to work upon yourself. You are here to remember who you are, and why you are here"
edit on 5-12-2010 by ThreeDeuce because: found quote



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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So, do you think we are in a neatively polarized world?
If this is so, is this because what we have done in our last world?


As I read HH's answers. The purpose for the negativity here is for the advancement or evolution of Yahweh ( I believe HH used the word progression). Yahweh according to HH had an issue ( The Jealousy? ) that required the types of trials and tribulations ( For lack of a better term) that this present 3rd density world provides. Yahweh is learning and evolving through the corporate experience of us His social memory complex or group soul ( I'm not sure if they mean the same thing or not). But there is a verse in the Bible that says the Lord reaps where He has not sown. It would seem that this situation is what that verse refers to ...at least it looks that way to me. Him/us reaping the lessons of all of our experiences. Each of us living our piece of the great whole.














edit on 5-12-2010 by HarryJoy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by thedoctorswife
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 
The God of the old testament was a jealous possesive egotistical creature, i went to bed last night thinking about his command to Abraham to sacrifice his only son. I put myself in abrahams position, i would sacrifice myself to God because my faith in him is strong, but my child would not possibly be able to comprehend that trust, what sort of God would terrify a child with the prospect of impending death?



I was contemplating the test of Abraham recently also and came to realize that it was the very fact that the test was contrary to the nature of a loving God that made it so effective at filtering. No one on earth would have supported Abraham in the belief that God would require such a thing of him. But it was that very fact that caused Abraham to trust his faith in God to the utmost. His faith knew that God would somehow make things right in the end...but it was the fact that he had absolutely no one on earth that he could turn to that makes him the father of faith. It was an act that was supported by his faith and his faith alone.



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior

Nah Lucifer is not a single entity, my understanding is that lucifer is a metaphorical personification of undivine forces and intelligence that are the result of the ignorant misuse of free will.

I wouldnt be thinking meeting lucifer is a handshake with a physical being... more likely a meditative or altered state style experience where they meet the bearer of the light/knowledge they have been recieving. Still its not such a profound experience as Lucifer is still a fallen part of the temporal illusory universe. The last words of the Bhudda before enlightenment were "Mara [or Lucifer], you do not exist."



This is one part of the HH message where I saw an inconsistency. He describes Lucifer as a group soul, but then talks about having a 33rd degree Mason meet Lucifer

I hope to be able to be present personally in the event that you are ever invited to progress beyond the 33rd Degree. I would like to be the one tasked with introducing you to Lucifer.


Yes, he does use the phrase "introducing you to" rather than "meeting", but one might ask... was this a flaw in HH rational? Was this one of the mistakes that he made, or does this introduction make sense in how you described " a meditative/altered state style experience meeting the bearer of light.

------------------------------------------------------------

Now, this quote, I found while studying Doctorswifes questions
"Once the order was given from the Council of Elders, we "Fell", or Descended back to a place where we could, with hard work and focus, once again materialize a 3rd Density manifestation of ourself."

Does this falling coincide with biblical references that Lucifer is a fallen angel?

Would this be the easiest way to describe a nearly 7th Density soul that has fallen and has to perpetrate evil upon the world?

I wonder if this is another biblical generalization. As if, stories have to be told that common people can understand, and there is no way that people could fathom other densities. Just like the bible depicts chariots of fire (ufos), and other outer worldy things.















edit on 7-12-2010 by ThreeDeuce because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior
The last words of the Bhudda before enlightenment were "Mara [or Lucifer], you do not exist."


Do you think this Buddha statement contradicts the HH message?
Or, is Buddha saying something more metaphysically?

Or, was this a flawed statement pre-enlightenment?



posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by thedoctorswife
Is this the biggest lie; ? that the church has turned lucifer into something he is not and never was.


If you take all of the information against the church today, you can see nothing but coverup and lies.
Could this be one also?

I was always confused how Lucifer could have gone from being another angel, to being the reason for all of the worldy evil.

Tell me this, if the church is pure, then why are some whole books of the bible missing/censored from the current bible?



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by thedoctorswife
Ok this is where i get confused, he says that council of elders gave them permission to leave against Yahwehs will, however they felt the need to stay and fulfil their commitment to us and our progression. Surely yahweh would have been glad to see them leave and have us return to edenic paradise we once had, any thoughts anyone or am i missing something.


"Yahweh had agreed to our coming, in fact it was he who had initially asked the Council for a "Catalyst" of change to enter into his Creation, and share the knowledge and wisdom we had attained through our Ascensions. In the absence of Free Will upon the planet, there can be no Polarity, and therefore, nothing to 'choose' between."

I believe the problem lies in the fact that if Lucifer left, that we would revert back to the "prison" that was earlier referred. We needed that negative, or else we would live in Eden with no prodding reasons to ascend.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the last part of the previous quote.... this is aimed to the person who had problems with this Earth being called a "prison"

"Just as is portrayed in the book of Genesis, the planet was very "Edenic" in nature. Sure, it was a lovely 'paradise', yet the Beings incarnating there had no agitator toward evolving beyond the 3rd Density, and therefore, little hope of ever making the journey Home, to The One. Yahweh has been happy to keep his own little pet Eden Project in effect, but with little chance of the Souls here making it Home, it had become in effect, an albeit very beautiful 'Prison'. "

To me, this completely makes sense. That we are not in a prison. That we WOULD be in a prison if it not for the help of the group soul Lucifer. It is here with the choice that we are given, that we are prodded to ascend.

LeoVirgo, just saw that it was you that disagreed with the prison planet quote.
Do you see how it is saying that this would be a prison without the Catalyst?



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