Hidden Hand Message Discussion -

Already done a long time ago, search the site first before posting threads. Mods can you close this thread please.

reply to post by naeem11111


No, the HH message thread is filled with useless off-topic posts, and i think that thread should be deleted by mods.

There needs to be a concise and well discussed thread about this subject, something that lives up to what ATS can produce. If you have read all 196 pages of the other HH discussion, you would see that 85% of those posts have nothing to do with the HH message or Law of One.

The Hidden Hand message echoes almost exactly the entire Ra Channelings.

Quick summary of Ra Channelings - www.spiritofmaat.com...

Similarities:
1. 75,000 year cycles.
2. That Humankind is on its 3rd Density (3rd reincarnative cycle).
3. The idea of spirit guides and wanderers.
4. differences between space/time and time/space
5. Veil of forgetfulness
6. Not all 3rd density individuals will ascend together, some will reincarnate on another 3rd density planet.

With many similarities, is it possible that the HH message is just a regurgitation of the Ra Channelings?

I personally believe that the HH message contains many unique thoughts and ideas that the Ra Channelings do not.


Edgar Cayce - a very Christian man - also spoke of channeling Ra, as he said this is where many of his readings came from. He also said that Ra would return in 1998, which is when David Wilcox started channeling Ra.

To add fire to the flame, one must look at pictures of Edgar Cayce, and the people closest to him in his life. Then, take pictures of David Wilcox and the people closest to him in his life.

-These are not pictures of random people in these two men's lives, but their closest friends and family.

First - a picture of Edgar Cayce and David Wilcox

----------------------------
Second - i believe this is both of their brothers


----------------------------
Third - Fathers


----------------------------
Fourth - Wilcox's close friend


----------------------------
Fifth - Girlfriend


----------------------------
Sixth - roomate





I saved all of these pictures from a Wilcox video that I saw years ago.
In every picture the picture on the left is from a person in Cayce's life, and right is from Wilcox's life.

I don't believe these to be forged photos, the resemblance is much too uncanny to be coincidence.

Yes, it could be fraud, but it could lead credence to the belief that
People reincarnate together in close knit groups, And
Theres more going on in this world than we can possibly comprehend.

Do these pictures lend credence to the HH message or the Law of One as asserted by the Ra Channelings?

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


HH? Ho-Hum maybe? Besides some rather obvious predictions it seems that these prophecies are kind of hanging at the moment:

"...there will be a new currency by the end of 2008 / early 2009, along with a new Union of nations."

And then,,,

"San Francisco and Damascus, will be uninhabitable by the end of 2010, possibly even sooner."

I mean I guess San Francisco still has time to become uninhabitable before 2010 is up. And then we have the standard Titor-esque disclaimer/escape clause:

Again, it depends upon certain 'forces' at play, and which timelines are activated.

On the other hand--heheh--I will, just in case, try to be of Service To Others in an attempt to foil this dastardly plan just in case it's true.

reply to post by naeem11111


agreed, there is nearly a 200 page thread devoted to this title, I mean I haven't read it all but...

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce
Please leave your personal beliefs out of this thread.

that kind of defeats the whole purpose... wouldn't a discussion involving symbolism require output of personal feelings/beliefs ?

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by ThreeDeuce

 

"...there will be a new currency by the end of 2008 / early 2009, along with a new Union of nations."

"San Francisco and Damascus, will be uninhabitable by the end of 2010, possibly even sooner."

Wasn't the Amero and the Euro debuted around this time? and the UN has gained significant power,

I am a bit skeptical about the end of 2010 timeline also, but these two predictions were 1/100th of the HH message, the majority of it focusing on light, love and service to others.

Other than these two predictions not coming to fruition, were there any other things you disagreed with in the HH message?

I found it unsettling that HH would sit there and attempt to predict occurances, and then paragraphs later warn of any channelings that give dates,
"The ones that give you precise dates and times are nearly always ones to avoid. Positive entities will not give a date and time. Negative ones will do, so they can set you up for a fall. Once you're tricked into predicting dates and times, and they don't happen, they've succeeded in putting out the Light of your message, as no one will see any credibility in you."

Its a little hipocric, no?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by naeem11111

 

agreed, there is nearly a 200 page thread devoted to this title, I mean I haven't read it all but...

If you had read it all, you would see how off subject that thread has gotten, and I wanted a place for intellectual discussion on this subject.

Cosmic, did either you or naeem1111 have constructive to add to the thread? Have you read the full HH message? What did you not agree with, what was hard to wrap your head around, any firm disagreements with HH?

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


Well, as you pointed out, there are similarities to the RA Material. Which itself, included some concepts seen in earlier channelings.

While the HH material provides some intriguing philosophies, I have come to believe that all such information, especially channeled material, is deception...there are no "positive" intelligences wanting to help us...only negative ones with a passion for deceiving humans.

I know some channelers. Both kinds: Those that are only talking to "themselves" and those that I believe are in commune with an intelligence vastly superior to their own.

Their lives seem to get caught up in maelstroms of trouble & trickery and their received messages so often contradictory from one to the other.

It literally takes more "faith" to believe these contradictory messages & pre-history stories of these channelings & Illuminatti claimants than it does the Bible.

I've spent a fair amount of time being fair & openminded to these various materials and to the concepts and explanations of folk that I love & care about. Ultimately, all I see is deception. Brilliant, supernatural deception.

HH is fun and intriguing enough...if you're okay with being deceived as fantasy entertainment. Let me be clear: The channelings of some of these folk ARE real...just not consistently factual.

Hope, I'm not messing up your thread, but I did go and read over the HH material again to be fair. Peace.

reply to post by ThreeDeuce
I completely agree with you, the current Hidden hand discussion thread is illuminating but went of track WAY back. Il come back with a contribution to this new one. Ive read the HH message about 10 times so itll be interesting to see what others think about it.

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by naeem11111

 

agreed, there is nearly a 200 page thread devoted to this title, I mean I haven't read it all but...

If you had read it all, you would see how off subject that thread has gotten, and I wanted a place for intellectual discussion on this subject.

Cosmic, did either you or naeem1111 have constructive to add to the thread? Have you read the full HH message? What did you not agree with, what was hard to wrap your head around, any firm disagreements with HH?

edit on 1-12-2010 by ThreeDeuce because: edit

no I personally speaking for myself seen you leave out an an already perfectly good discussion and start another with nearly the identical title because you have not read enough of or understand Unity's meaning in her last post there.

so let get this straight, since no one else's personal feeling are allowed in this topic does that mean only your personal opinion can prevail ?

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


Your are correct that it went off track and no I haven't read all of it, and what you quoted before on HH predicting dates he was reluctant but to give the dog a bone he gave out some, obviously you dont tell people your plans otherwise they know. e.g. if you say during 2012 these places are the safest then the natives of that land will have big problems to sort out as people are migrating there.

-Naeem

Cosmic, did either you or naeem1111 have constructive to add to the thread?

Me personally, nothing.

Have you read the full HH message?

Yes, many times including Insider's on GLP and Illuminator13's on this site.

What did you not agree with, what was hard to wrap your head around, any firm disagreements with HH?

I do not believe nor disbelieve what HH said, I will wait until 2012 and then make my decision.

I had previously gone through the entire HH message and split it up into 3 categories, predictions, things hard to swallow, and easily believed things. However, I lost this entire message just near the end of the message. It was quite a load to write, so I start again, and will post in sections.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to swallow:

1. That HH is descendant from an ancient powerful family of off-world lineage.

2. These bloodlines are more powerful than the Rockefellers

3. Two other "disclosure" instances have occured 1999 and 2003
(can anyone find proof of these?)

4. That we are addicted to, violence, pornography, greed, hatred, selfishness,
incessant 'bad news', fear and 'terror'

5. That there will be a physical Harvest of souls in which you can have a
positive Ascension or Negative Ascension depending if you are more focused
on service to self or service to others.

6. The Luciferian group soul requires a Negative Ascension for themselves.

7. Most human beings are on their 3rd ascension here on Earth.

8. Your Creator, the one you have called 'Yahweh', is not "God" in as much as your
bible refers to him as being "the One True God". He is 'a' Creator (or Sub-Sub-Logos)
rather than the One Infinite Creator

9. Lucifer is not "The Devil", but a group soul that must perpetuate evil in order to provide
the choice of free will

10. the noonday Winter Solstice Sun of December 21st, 2012 is the time when the Lord of
The Harvest shall return. You might know him as "Nibiru".

11. There will be a three way split for souls on earth. Those negatively ascending will inhabit
a 4th density earth based on the negative polarity. Those Positively Ascending will inhabit
a 4th density earth based on the positive polarity. Those in the middle will be forced to
reinhabit 3rd density earth again.

12. Most of what you hear termed as "abductions", are conducted by your own 'governments'.
Especially the ones where the 'so-called' "Greys" are involved

13. Then there is the Orion Empire Group. Their purposes in visiting you are more along the
Negative lines. They mainly target the ones you have called "Lightworkers". They try to put them
off their assignments and try to spread fear. They will not actually 'harm' you physically. Mainly
their modus operandi is to restrict you, and deflect you from your path. They often engage in psychic
attacks that the 'Lightworker' is unaware of, but it does often drain away much of their energy, and
make them lack motivation.

14. In order to choose the positive path, at least 51 percent of our thoughts and actions must be
dedicated to the service of others. For the negative path, at least 95% must be self-serving.
Between the two lies “the sinkhole of indifference".”

15. Just like in Hollywood productions. We hide the Truth right out in the wide open. What humanity
is offered as "Science Fiction", more often than not, is actually Science Fact

16. That 33rd degree masons are introduced to Lucifer.

17. 9/11 was a ritual human sacrifice and provided the catalyst for the "war on terror"

18. 11.11 is going to be a very significant date. a global wakeup

19. space/time is illusion, time/space is Real

20. Karma cannot be 'overcome', it must be 'worked off

21. Linear time is more accurately described as an intentional fabrication

22. We do not have 'direct' Soul Memory, as in the manner that you remember what you did
yesterday, but we may access any portion of our Soul memory we so chose when we focus
upon it, often in a meditative state

23. Religion is either actually created, or at very least, heavily influenced by us. There is no such
things as "god". "God" is a human concept, which is a misunderstanding of the original
concept of "Creator"

24. At the very worst, you will have to repeat as many 3rd Density Cycles as is necessary, in
order for you to learn the things you need to learn, in order to progress and Graduate to
4th Density Positive. But one thing is for sure, you will get there in the end. All will find their
way Home, to our Infinite Creator

25. The Montauk Project is Fact.

26. The Wanderers, (or 'Travelers' as they are also known) are those from Higher Densities, who
have chosen to incarnate here at this time, in order to perfect Service to Others

27. The majority of the planets in our solar system are inhabited

28. The earth is hollow.

29. Satan" is a human invention. Simply the 'personification' you have given to all the Negativity
that has existed on this beautiful planet

30. The 'tall blondes' of which you speak, are of Plejaren heritage. They are working with
what is know as the Galactic Confederation of Planets. They serve the Positive vibration.
Plejarens are from the constellation you call the Pleiades. It's actual name is the Plejares,
hence 'Plejarens'.

31. The lower parts of our Family (Luciferians) use the Vatican for many Rituals and Sacrifices.
That should tell you all you need to know

32. The closet biblical authors, are those who have been 'left out' of the publicized editions. The
closest "spiritual" writings (other than the Ra material) to containing truth about the
nature of The One, are the Taoist writings, that of the 'Tao Te Ching', and the 'Book of Chuang Tzu'.

33. We are most certainly NOT Reptilian. we are of Venusian heritage, originally. What is another
name that Venus is called by? Connect the dots.
(Venus was known as Lucifer in the past, added by OP).



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Predictions

1. Stock market collapse after bailouts and rescue packages (perhaps is in progress but hasn't happened yet)

2. Banks call in all loans (hasn't happened domestically, but has happened in Europe)

3. Many bankruptcies and foreclosures (definitely happening in US.)

4. Barack Obama president (happened)

5. New currency 2008/2009 (amero/euro? not sure)

6.New United Nations (haven't had a new one, but have definitely had an advance in power of current one)

7. San Francisco and Damascus uninhabitable by end 2010 (hasn't happened yet. 1 month to go).

As for all of his predicitions, the only one that surely hasn't happened is #7, the others have happened to some extent. Of course we have yet to see if 1 will truely collapse and 5 and 6 I am unsure of.

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Things GOOD stressed in HH message:

1. There is Unity. Unity is all there is.

2. Creation is based upon Free Will, Love, and Light.

3. So, December 21, 2012 AD, is not the day where all of the sudden the lights go out, and
everything will suddenly change, rather, we are NOW in the process of this transition, from
one World Age to the next

4. When you remember who you are, and you know it, deep within the Core of your Being,
you will know and recognize your 'invisible' connection to All that Is, and in so doing, Joy,
and Thanksgiving, and Service, will be the natural outpouring result, from your grateful heart.
When you work upon yourself, and learn to know the Creator within you, being of Service to
Others will be natural for you, and your Glorious Harvest shall await.

5. There is only One of Us here. Understand that, and you will understand the Game.

6. When you are coming from a place of Love for, and Service to your Creator, a life of Service
to others will become a natural outflowing from that. Always look for ways that you can be of
assistance to your fellow Beings. Being of encouragement to others. Build people up, and do
not put people down. Be a beacon of light, in a dark world

7. You do not Serve others to achieve Oneness with the Infinite Source, you Serve others, because
you love them, as yourself. Others, are an extension of yourself.

8. Love your 'enemies', and pray for those who persecute you


9. Read many sites, and listen to your Inner Voice. Your Soul will guide you if you ask it. It speaks in the
language of Feelings. When it "just feels right", usually, it is

10. Never take what another says to you as "Truth". Your purpose here, is to find your own Truth.
Sometimes, others can help you to do so by offering guidance, but for their Truth to become
your Truth, it must pass through the test of your discernment. Sit quietly in meditation, and ask
the Infinite Creator to guide your path. Meditate upon that which I have shared, and listen to your
inner feelings. They are the language of your Soul

11. Just keep noticing your Negative thought patterns as they arise, and in so doing, simply choose
again, and select a response that is more Positive. It is called 'working on yourself', and is the
main reason you have chosen to be here right now

12. Dreams are a key method our Souls use to speak with us. The conscious mind is too busy
and distracted most of the time, to hear what Spirit has to say. So It tends to use the
subconscious instead.

13. Switch off all non essential electrical appliances. (The electromagnetic field they create disturbs
your brainwave patterns, and makes it difficult for your mind to achieve the deeper alpha and theta
states conducive with relaxing deeply and hearing your inner voice).

14. When you find, and come to know your Creator living within you, you will know that there is nothing to fear.

15. Be the strong and courageous Soul that deep down, you know yourself to be. Do not hide your
Inner Light. Trust yourself, and shine your light into the darkness

16.. Cultivate Compassion. See yourself within all "others", and treat "others" as you would like to be
treated yourself. Then remember this one crucial thing: There are no "others".

17. Your purpose in the Game, is to work upon yourself. To grow, develop, and transform
yourself into a more positive and loving being. You had certain goals that you planned to
achieve before incarnating here

18. Look at the things in your life that you most love to do. Ask yourself what makes you
most happy. Experience these things as often as possible, as they will be related to
some of the things you chose to put into your Soul contract to do here.

19. Also, look at the negative things, that often seem to recur during your lifetime. It will be
highly likely that these are also things that you chose to come here to work upon

20. You are not 'doomed', and your Soul does not require 'salvation'

21. Work upon yourself. Go inside, in a state of meditative contemplation. Still your mind,
that your Soul may have room in which to make It's 'still-small voice' heard. Ask your
Infinite Creator to help you, and listen to your inner voice. Be patient, it takes time to
develop this inner communication, after a lifetime of neglect

22. You should never accept something as true, just because someone tell you it is so.
But when your inner voice guides you that a Truth is True, and you feel that old warm
feeling of excitement welling up from somewhere deep within, that says "Yes! I knew it!"
Hold on to that feeling, (feelings are the language of your Soul)

23. PRACTICE THAT WHICH YOU PREACH
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to have people read the "Good" section of the HH message, and leave out the parts that are hard to swallow. Then your own inability to fathom certain subjects might not stop you from seeing the inherent good behind the HH message.

the message of HH is about the whole, not just the little that may seem true to some, if the whole does not make sense or has no proven facts in it then the whole cannot be seen as valid or truth, the message as it stands certainly does not resonate with me and seems more inclined to a negative aspect in being working to decieve and bring about another new age ideal or belief to those trying to find a way out of the mess created in this world by all.

there is no more validity in this message as is in others through channelings, or even same for religion and its many varied sects or beliefs, the truth can only be what one feels inside themselves to be, not one that solely is brought forth by man alone as representation of something more.

life is not a game, it is real and has many consequences to actions applied, actions that are controlled only by man himself and bought forth by his own beliefs. where is proof until its seen to be believed.

HH discounts god and salvation, replaced by incarnation and density cycles, allows negativity as a way for harvest and progession, gives personification to satan or lucifer, implies man is not born of earth and many other unfacturelized events or 'thoughts' pertaining to his message. until truth can be solved or seen there is no account or discount for what these type of messages bring forth or the way they pertray life or afterlife in being.

sorry if not quite on subject, but made as reguards to the whole of HH message and personal believability of subjects material in sense of its message.

reply to post by ThreeDeuce


Nice breakdown. You worked hard on that...twice! Yes, there are some lovely sentiments and trendy self-helpisms in the material.

But my question is, if, "there is only one of us here," how does that make sense in the context that we all chose to be here to either work off our karma or work on ourselves?

And: If we're all gonna end up in the same place anyway--as one--then what could possibly be the purpose of free will?

reply to post by redgy


Redgy, when you said that the message does not resonate with you, that is important. Using
that internal compass that we all have is one of our only weapons in this day and age, when we
are bombarded by more information to digest than any generation before.

This leads to a very stressful situation! But, if something doesn't ring true for you as is, then
you can either find out what parts you don't agree with, or discredit the whole thing.

I don't believe he implies that man is not born of this earth. At least I did not read that into it.
If you could point out that section, I'd love to take a second look at it.

What was very interesting to me, is the referral of lucifer to a group soul, and less a personified
single evil entity. Wouldn't this group soul concept explain how there could be so many "demons"
in this world, and so much evil perpetuated upon this earth.

I have found no better explaination of why there is so much evil here.

The argument is there has to be a duality. There has to be an evil side for us to be able to make
the right choice, which leads us to a positive Ascension. In some ways it could be looked upon,
that they are sacrificing for us. They will have to work off all of their bad karma that they are acruing
here

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by ThreeDeuce

 

But my question is, if, "there is only one of us here," how does that make sense in the context that we all chose to be here to either work off our karma or work on ourselves?

I think it has to do with the idea that even though we have different paths, we are still one family
which will return home to each other at the end of times.

The idea that we are all one is pretty hard to wrap my head around, at least at this time of night.
If this is the case, then I'm doing all of these evil acts upon myself?

Perhaps it is talking about being one family, not one soul, but am unsure of that. Confusing it is.

And: If we're all gonna end up in the same place anyway--as one--then what could possibly be the purpose of free will?

Perhaps its as simple as, Instant Salvation means more if theres a concious choice for it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From HH:

Without Polarity, (derived from Free Will), there is only the Unity of Love and Light, and no choice to experience 'other than' that. So, we were to be the Catalyst for change, in order to provide that choice, thus bringing Polarity. Yahweh agreed that we would introduce the concept of Free Will to Earth's inhabitants, by offering them an initial choice, as to whether they 'wanted' it or not. Hence, "The Tree of the Knowledge of 'Good and Evil'" (or more accurately, the Knowledge of Polarity, of Positive or Negative). Yahweh takes his inhabitants to a new 'garden' and tells them you can do anything you like, except this one thing, thus creating the desire to do the one thing there are told they cannot. Hence, a "Choice". We provide the Catalyst by telling them the benefits of attaining Knowledge, they eat from the tree, and the rest is history.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another HH quote:

Negativity is still an important tool in your learning process. It teaches you "other than". As I said earlier, it is up to you how you use the tools we have given you. Do you respond to Negativity with more Negativity? Has fighting fire with fire ever worked for you? Or do you choose to see the Negativity as the tool that it is, and recognize that it is offering you an opportunity? I will honour your Free Will to think and discover for yourself what that opportunity is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

no I personally speaking for myself seen you leave out an an already perfectly good discussion and start another with nearly the identical title because you have not read enough of or understand Unity's meaning in her last post there.

so let get this straight, since no one else's personal feeling are allowed in this topic does that mean only your personal opinion can prevail ?

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding Cosmic.

It's not that personal opinions aren't welcome, its just when one solely debates
opinion with opinon and never debates anything from the original message, no ground
is gained, and nothing is proved. It wasn't that I think that my own opinon trumps
others (far from that). I just wanted to see discussion about the actual message for
once. We can talk about it line by line if you want, as long as
we keep the thread on subject.

As for me leaving out a "perfectly good discussion", I suggest you attempt
to read all pages of that thread, and tell me how many of them actually discuss the subject
headline in any constructive manner. And, just because Unity has posted her own
personal beliefs more than anyone else, I'm supposed to blindly believe those,
and let one off-key voice ruin the choir. I think not. Again, lets discuss the topic,
not try to prove to everyone else that our own personal beliefs matter more than theirs.

I get appalled when I hear religions say "If you're not this specific sect of christianity,
you're doomed". This closed mindedness pits a disturbing small saved core against the
world, who must be damned.

When watching Zeitgeist, for the first time, I really enjoyed how it made me feel closer
to other religions. I liked the similarities between religions. Oh look, their gods are based
on nearly the same thing that ours is. Hmmm, is this a clue, perhaps. But, as normal
people, we look to exclude people first, because of the small differences that we do have.
Rather than including people to our group, because of the huge similarities.

If you go back and look at the original HH discussion, you will see that many of the people
posting over and over their own personal beliefs, that they are in essence echoing the good
topics that the HH message conveys. Read the good viewpoints, and try and tell me the
world wouldn't be a better place if we all lived by those. They nearly all echoe the ideals of
Christianity.