Protocols of the Elders of Zion are FAKE!!!

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posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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Hi all,

I have seen quite a bit of discussions about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on these forums, and many people use its content to help prove a zionist conspiracy and for justification of anti-semitism .

After doing some research on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that these documents must be fake.
These are my arguments:

1. If you are planning to take over the world by means as described in the Protocols so openly, you are one hell of an idiot to leak this most important top secret document even before the plan comes into action.

2. For some reason there has been an extreme amount of antisemitism in history. I find it not hard to believe that books like this are created in the imagination of people.

3. A number of journalists and researchers have pointed out that a lot of the text is derived from other works, as explained in this link: emperors-clothes.com...

4. The real reason there are so many rich jews, is that they have had no social security for many centuries (no home country)

Here is the original Israeli account of what happened when they bought Israel:
www.zionism-israel.com...

That being said, I still believe in an evil conspiracy, and I still think things happening in Palestina are not very correct (from both sides)

I believe antisemitism, and racism in general are due to our need for categorical solutions for problems, and is never a good solution for individuals.
I also believe that this mechanism is used by politicians a lot to gain popularity easily.


So, can we all agree that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery now?

Another link on the origin of the Protocols:
www.notbored.org...
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: added link




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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please include " in my view protocols of the elders of Zion are FAKE"


you will save so many people time . Protocols can be updated revised edited on a daily basis if they wished. You've proven nothing. Lots of hearsay with a touch fo rant. Baseless empty unproductive. Back to work taxed live stock



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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Do you work for MOSSAD by any chance?Why do people posts threads like these?Boring!



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:51 AM
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1. If you are planning to take over the world by means as described in the Protocols so openly, you are one hell of an idiot to leak this most important top secret document even before the plan comes into action.


Or........maybe your organisation was finally banned by a coalition of European royalty pressuring the Pope - who upon signing the order commented that he was signing his own death warrant.

Maybe two yrs later you would found the Illuminati with the same goal - and decide to operate at several removes from the action, like - taking over the top level of an existing organisation (Freemasonry).

Maybe you would create a special banking dinasty under the emblem of a red shield (Constantine, Templars).

Maybe you would put the blame on your enemies by creating the myth that they are engaged in the very conspiracy that you are!

Maybe you could use this enemy as front men for all your operations.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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Thanks for stating your "Opinion"
many here will point out that you didn't state that in the OP
That is common here, and to be expected.

I was just saying the other day
Hey looks the flotilla crowd are back!
welcome back we missed you
edit on 1-12-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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In my view I do not have to add 'in my view' because this is not a viewpoint.

If you had read the articles I posted you would have found out that:

- The protocols are proven to be manufactured. Earlier writings are found that closely resemble the text, implicating that the protocols are generated from these books.
- The conspirators that have ordered for this piece of writing have been traced by independent journalists.

This seems to me like 100% proof it's forgery.

Another logical argument that I added:
If you are making plans like that you are soooo stupid to even write em down.

Come on, you guys can understand this, right?
And if not, please be so polite to do your own research before replying with BS.


As a side note, I think Zionism is racist and we should definitely help the Palestinians.
However my opinion is that we should not do this by expressing the same racism vs. Israel, because that is just dumb.
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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These have been proven to be fake by numerous historians. So yeah, its old news but you are right.

Ignore the abuse you might get from the sad ignorant people who love to think of the jews as evil world dominating fiends.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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Belief in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a perfect example of what happens when hate and feeble mindedness meet google search. The result is a false substantiation of predisposed anti-semetism. Of course it is a forgery but there's no telling that to some people for they believe Hitler pooped sunshine and unicorns. I suspect most of the hate peddlers know that it's a work of fiction anyway but rely on the ignorance of their audience not to look things up.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now." - Henry Ford

I have to say, weather fake or not they are to a tee what is going on today.

Jews are in control of the American Congress.

www.haaretz.com...

They control just about all the media in the United states and Hollywood of course. With people like Wolf Blitzer (former AIPAC) lobbiest spreading propaganda for all the world to see left and right.

Please don't tell me that they aren't at the top of the Federal Reserve and most of the Big Banks.

Its almost exact.

The Russian Revolution in 1917 was a complete Jewish takeover of a government. I see the same type of thing happening here in america.




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:26 AM
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Remind you of anything!?

(The Jesuit 4th vow)



(Text of the Oath


I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)

(Superior speaks


You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank. In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one crosses his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the centre of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the centre of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges; the other answers Impious. The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers:

From whither do you come? Answer: The Holy faith.

Whom do you serve? Answer: The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world.

Who commands you? Answer: The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.

Who received you? Answer: A venerable man in white hair.

How? Answer: With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order.

Did you take an oath? Answer: I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, nor sex, nor condition; to be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation or murmuring.

Will you do that? Answer: I will.

How do you travel? Answer: In the bark of Peter the fisherman.

Whither do you travel? Answer: To the four quarters of the globe.

For what purpose? Answer: To obey the orders of my General and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfil the conditions of my oaths.

Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.

For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com



www.redicecreations.com...



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:44 AM
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Think the 4th vow is made up! - what vow do you suppose the people who did this took?

seawaves.us... - scroll down to the bottom to see what millions of the inquisition victims had to endure at the hands of the Catholic Church.


The Wheel
The wheel was one of the most popular and insidious methods of torture and execution practiced. The giant spiked wheel was able to break bodies as it rolled forward, causing the most agonizing and drawn-out death. Other forms include the "braided" wheel, where the victim would be tied to the execution dock or platform. Their limbs were spread and tied to stakes or iron rings on the ground. Slices of wood were placed under the main joints, wrists, ankles, knees, hips, and elbows. The executioner would then smash every joint with the iron-tyred edge of the wheel--however the executioner would avoid fatal blows to give the victim a painful death.

According to a German chronicler, the victim was transformed into a huge screaming puppet writhing in their own blood. It looked like a sea monster with four tentacles, and raw slimy shapeless flesh, mixed with splinters of bone. After the smashing had taken place the victim would literally be "braided" into the wheel and hung horizontally at the top of the pole.


The Breast Ripper
The name of this device speaks for itself. Women condemned of heresy, blasphemy, adultery, and witchcraft often felt the wrath of this device as it violently tore a breast from their torso.

This device was highly put into service during the massacre of the Danes.


The Head Crusher
With the victim's chin placed on the lower bar, a screw then forces the cap down on the victims cranium. The recipients teeth are crushed and forced into the sockets to smash the surrounding bone. The eyes are compressed from their sockets and brain from the fractured skull.

This device, although not a form of capital punishment, is still used for interrogational purposes. It was to inflict extreme agony and shock and leave the victim in its grasp for hours. Other methods included the head screw (below) which was placed around the forehead and tighten. The accused became so frantic by the extreme panic of having their head crushed that they confessed to anything.


The Boots
Also known as the bootikens. The legs of the patient were usually placed between two planks of wood, which they binded with cords and wedges. The torturer used a large, heavy hammer to pound the wedges, driving them closer together.

Forceful blows were used to squeeze the legs to jelly, lacerating flesh, protruding the shins, and crushing the bones; sometimes so that marrow gushed out. Once unloosed the bones fall to pieces, rendering the legs useless. This torture was most overwhelming, as one can imagine.


Judas Cradle ............



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by whatevername
 


Yes they are indeed fake. Most people know this already. But judging by the replies, I guess your thread was necessary.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by whatevername
In my view I do not have to add 'in my view' because this is not a viewpoint.

If you had read the articles I posted you would have found out that:

- The protocols are proven to be manufactured. Earlier writings are found that closely resemble the text, implicating that the protocols are generated from these books.
- The conspirators that have ordered for this piece of writing have been traced by independent journalists.

This seems to me like 100% proof it's forgery.

Another logical argument that I added:
If you are making plans like that you are soooo stupid to even write em down.

Come on, you guys can understand this, right?
And if not, please be so polite to do your own research before replying with BS.


As a side note, I think Zionism is racist and we should definitely help the Palestinians.
However my opinion is that we should not do this by expressing the same racism vs. Israel, because that is just dumb.
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)


I'm afraid I have to disagree - it is only an opinion. Other scholars disagree, and have compelling reasons for doing so. See the Preface and Introduction to the Protocols ( Victor Marsden translation).
www.biblebelievers.org.au...

I believe these are not fiction at all, but are the horrendous truth of what is going on in our world right now. The 'Elders' are Jewish fanatic extremists and are more than three-quarters of the way to achieving their evil goal.

Read them, look at what is happening - it's obvious. THEY ARE NOT FAKE.



edit on 1-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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Read them, look at what is happening - it's obvious. THEY ARE NOT FAKE.


Picture this: Two groups of people, one is the oldest wealthiest largest, most influential and powerfull society ever to have existed - and claims divine rulership of the entire world. Has a history of genocide torture mass murder, supression of knowledge and learning etc and yet is presented in the media as a byword for saintlyness and divine authority - with world leaders flocking to genuflect before them!

The other - a race of marginalised, ghettoised, nationless, despised and persecuted people that have been hounded, pogrommed, massacred and holocausted from one country to another for thousands of years. One that has provided the greatest intellectual contribution to the learning and advancement of the human race. One that is now hemmed in to a tiny strip of indefensible land, surrounded by a sea of implaccable enemies - castigated by the world media and the UN on a daily basis.


Which one do you suppose controls the world?



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by whatevername
Hi all,

I have seen quite a bit of discussions about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on these forums, and many people use its content to help prove a zionist conspiracy and for justification of anti-semitism .

After doing some research on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that these documents must be fake.
These are my arguments:

1. If you are planning to take over the world by means as described in the Protocols so openly, you are one hell of an idiot to leak this most important top secret document even before the plan comes into action.

2. For some reason there has been an extreme amount of antisemitism in history. I find it not hard to believe that books like this are created in the imagination of people.

3. A number of journalists and researchers have pointed out that a lot of the text is derived from other works, as explained in this link: emperors-clothes.com...

4. The real reason there are so many rich jews, is that they have had no social security for many centuries (no home country)

Here is the original Israeli account of what happened when they bought Israel:
www.zionism-israel.com...

That being said, I still believe in an evil conspiracy, and I still think things happening in Palestina are not very correct (from both sides)

I believe antisemitism, and racism in general are due to our need for categorical solutions for problems, and is never a good solution for individuals.
I also believe that this mechanism is used by politicians a lot to gain popularity easily.


So, can we all agree that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery now?

Another link on the origin of the Protocols:
www.notbored.org...
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: added link


I'm not arguing that they are real, but you have done nothing here to show they are fake. It is all YOUR OPINION, and nothing else.

To counter your points:
1)Doubt, if it is real, that it was intentionally leaked. And something being leaked is in no way proof that it is fake.

2)You said it yourself "i find it hard to believe"; again, this is based on nothing more than your opinion/feelings.

3)Your link, along with most others on the subject, cannot even agree on when it was first published.

4)No home country? Thats naive, and frankly needs further explanation (are you saying since they dont pay into a federal ss fund, they have more money?)

5)When they 'bought' israel.....thats funny.

Now, again, I am not claiming they are true, but I have a hard time with your claims that they are false, when you have backed none of it up.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


"One that is now hemmed in to a tiny strip of indefensible land, surrounded by a sea of implaccable enemies" - Are you talking about gaza? lol



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by haterproof
Belief in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a perfect example of what happens when hate and feeble mindedness meet google search. The result is a false substantiation of predisposed anti-semetism. Of course it is a forgery but there's no telling that to some people for they believe Hitler pooped sunshine and unicorns. I suspect most of the hate peddlers know that it's a work of fiction anyway but rely on the ignorance of their audience not to look things up.


So if you dont believe they are fake you are a Hitler-loving nazi that only spreads hate?



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by whatevername
In my view I do not have to add 'in my view' because this is not a viewpoint.

If you had read the articles I posted you would have found out that:

- The protocols are proven to be manufactured. Earlier writings are found that closely resemble the text, implicating that the protocols are generated from these books.
- The conspirators that have ordered for this piece of writing have been traced by independent journalists.

This seems to me like 100% proof it's forgery.

Another logical argument that I added:
If you are making plans like that you are soooo stupid to even write em down.

Come on, you guys can understand this, right?
And if not, please be so polite to do your own research before replying with BS.


As a side note, I think Zionism is racist and we should definitely help the Palestinians.
However my opinion is that we should not do this by expressing the same racism vs. Israel, because that is just dumb.
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)


I'm afraid I have to disagree - it is only an opinion. Other scholars disagree, and have compelling reasons for doing so. See the Preface and Introduction to the Protocols ( Victor Marsden translation).
www.biblebelievers.org.au...

I believe these are not fiction at all, but are the horrendous truth of what is going on in our world right now. The 'Elders' are Jewish fanatic extremists and are more than three-quarters of the way to achieving their evil goal.

Read them, look at what is happening - it's obvious. THEY ARE NOT FAKE.



edit on 1-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)


Please explain to me why a great deal of the text shows up in earlier antisemitic and non-antisemitic writings as well?

They are proven to be used by governments to persecute jews from since they were produced.

Furthermore, I am not calling anyone a nazi and you may believe what you want.

I think, however, that when you blame jews for basically everything, because that is what the conspiracy does when taken to its full extent, you are mistaken.
And in order to prove that, I want to point out to you that the so called Protocols of the Elders of Zion are forgeries.
The Zionists do have their protocols, according to the website israel-zionism.com. And I am sure that if you ask them, they will happily provide you with information about their protocols.

If you want to argue my argument against the reasonability of the whole document, please read the so called protocols of the elders of zion and you will understand why. the whole text is so outrageous that only a fool would confess it and write it down.

Edit:
By no homeland I mean they were forcefully migrated from their country a long time ago so they had no backup from their "own" people. This is also why I think Zionism is racist because it falsely believes that a jew-only state is the solution to their problems.
/Edit

I am not denying any of the situations happening today, or that happened in the past.

But I am denying that this document is written by jews and I believe that the facts are on my side.

My apologies for stating my opinion quite firmly, I don't mean to demonize any of you and if you disagree, convince me
edit on 1-12-2010 by whatevername because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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I've read the Protocols in their entirety.

The thing about them is, forgery or not, they are an uncanny prediction, made before 1900, of things that did in fact come to pass in the world. Centralization of banking in America, use of central banks to cause an economic crisis (the Great Depression), the Russian Revolution, the First World War, control of both "sides" of media to keep people divided and missing the true conspiracy, are all in there.

Jewish or not, somebody wrote them.

In my opinion, as someone who grew up in South Florida and probably half my friends are Jews, it's silly to think all Jews are somehow in on a big conspiracy and working together to take over the world. Such a thought is ludicrous and, indeed, anti-Semitic.

The way I see it, if the Protocols are in fact real, then the people the writers referred to as "Goyim" in fact means anybody who is not them, which would include ordinary Jews.

I encourage anybody to read them. If it's fiction, it's fantastic disturbing fiction, right up there with Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. Worth reading for that reason alone.

Just don't start hating Jews because of it. They're pawns just like the rest of us.

edit on 1-12-2010 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by haterproof
 


Well that was a great comment. LOL
We do not need to invent any conspiaracies be it the NWO, The Rothchilds, or the Protocols. All it takes in the human tendency to greed to be mixed the the well know anti- competitive nature of many capitalists to generate all manner of greedy attempts at world dominantion or just unfairly controling the Market.

It is too easy... Beware the lobbyists!





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