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WAR: Polish Troops Possibly Find Banned Weapons in Iraq

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posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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Poland has declared in a statement released Friday that it has found some artillery shells which initial tests have shown to have the chemical agent GB-GF, cyclosarin. The U.S. is conductiing the tests and said further tests are needed because intial tests could be misleading. The warhead types are of the same type used in the Iran-Iraq war.
 



Reuters
WARSAW (Reuters) - Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, Poland's military has said.

"The results of ... analysis confirmed that chemical agent GB-GF, cyclosarin, was found in the shells," the Polish-led unit of the multinational force in Iraq said in a statement on Friday.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


While these weapons appear to be from the 1980's, Iraq had declared under the Saddam regime to have destroyed all of their chemical weapons stockpile in previous dealings with the UN inspectors.


[edit on 2-7-2004 by Banshee]




posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:31 AM
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Thats it? I doubt seriously that we will ever find a smoking gun. If there was WMD in the country we would have found them by now.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Thats it? I doubt seriously that we will ever find a smoking gun. If there was WMD in the country we would have found them by now.


Why would we have found them by now? They could have been moved out of the counrty or burried in the vast desert. I agree this is no smoking gun, not even close, but to say we would have found them by now is neglegant.


Please elaborate why you think that.


df1

posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by JacKatMtn
While these weapons appear to be from the 1980's, Iraq had declared under the Saddam regime to have destroyed all of their chemical weapons stockpile in previous dealings with the UN inspectors.


Of course the chemical weapons were from the 1980s. The only weapons of this type ever in the possession of iraq were provided by reagan and bush41 for use on iran. Look for the "made in the usa" label on these shells. Just like bin laden they are an american manufactured product.

Wake Up America.
.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:51 AM
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Information on what cyclosarin is and its toxicity:

www.cnn.com...

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Very powerful stuff. Many of us have heard of sarin. Cyclosarin is even more powerful, even more dangerous. When it's weaponized, it's used in a liquid form in a rocket or in missile. And then if any of that liquid, even just a very small amount, gets on someone's skin, it can affect the nerve endings, so that the person ends up having fluid buildup in the airways, and ends up having constricted airways, and dies that way. It is a very, very terrible way to die.


www.cnn.com...
www.gulflink.osd.mil...

I think ANY find of this type of weapon is a definite plus in the search for WMD.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by GriBiT
Why would we have found them by now? They could have been moved out of the counrty or burried in the vast desert. I agree this is no smoking gun, not even close, but to say we would have found them by now is neglegant.
Please elaborate why you think that.


1) all of the evidence that was touted prewar has proven false. From the Germ Warfare Trailers to germ spraying drones.
2) Were is all of the sophisticated nuclear bomb making materials.
3) Some may have founds its way into Iran / Syria, but not everything.
4) Even if everything was buried out in the desert, or in one of the infamous bunkers, somebody would have talked by now. Dangle enough money in front of people and they will roll over. Particulary after Sadam was caught there is little or no incentive to prodect a dead regime.

And on and on
I supported the war and continue to do so. But lets call it like it is and say that Saddam had fulfilled his usefullness, we needed to secure a good source of oil, and establish more bases in the region. The oil is particularly important esp. if the house of Saud falls.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 08:28 AM
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Ah, the thing that bothers me is, it appears Bush gets the total blame for misleading the world on WMD's in Iraq. But it is common knowledge the world itself believed Saddam had WMD's, in fact he did have them. And it is ironic that bits and pieces of them continue to be found, albeit items from years ago.....but that does not negate the toxicity of the stuff. Clinton knew he had 'em, heck, the UN knew he had 'em, umpteen resolutions came and went, so, the question is not whether or not Saddam had the WMD's, but rather, how much, how old, and where are they? I for one am not naive enough to thing Saddam could not have hidden them, I mean, we are not talking items of great bulk here. And to have shipped the stuff out pre-war would have been easy to do. As far as the argument that someone would have talked by now, I am not sure of this, as the penalty for that would likely be death. I think time will determine the answers to these questions, but feel strongly it is way, way too soon to categorically judge the wisdom of the Iraqi invasion, or whether or not WMD's in fact existed.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by smokenmirrors
Ah, the thing that bothers me is, it appears Bush gets the total blame for misleading the world on WMD's in Iraq.

I agree most of the worlds intelligence agencies believed that the Iraqi's had WMD. Bush's only fault is he used faulty inteligence in making his case. As I stated before, I supported and support the war, but I find the lack of WMD's really disturbing. If the CIA, MI-6 et al. were so wrong about Iraq, it makes me more nervous about other assesments around the world.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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There is some good argument that WMD was sent to Syria prior to the US liberating Iraq.
Some info on possible WMD to Syria in this ATS thread.....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2-7-2004 by JacKatMtn]



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by GriBiT
Why would we have found them by now? They could have been moved out of the counrty or burried in the vast desert. I agree this is no smoking gun, not even close, but to say we would have found them by now is neglegant.
Please elaborate why you think that.


1) all of the evidence that was touted prewar has proven false. From the Germ Warfare Trailers to germ spraying drones.
2) Were is all of the sophisticated nuclear bomb making materials.
3) Some may have founds its way into Iran / Syria, but not everything.
4) Even if everything was buried out in the desert, or in one of the infamous bunkers, somebody would have talked by now. Dangle enough money in front of people and they will roll over. Particulary after Sadam was caught there is little or no incentive to prodect a dead regime.

And on and on
I supported the war and continue to do so. But lets call it like it is and say that Saddam had fulfilled his usefullness, we needed to secure a good source of oil, and establish more bases in the region. The oil is particularly important esp. if the house of Saud falls.


Reply to your proof:
1) Not True. "All Evidence Proven false" is not accurate. Perhaps not all proven true, but also not proven false. Noone really knows, it may be some time before ther is proof either way.
2) This was information from the British, which at the time was concidered reliable. Also disinformation from the Iraqi government.
3) as I already stated, they may have been moved out of the country. By you stating "But not all" you seem to be saying that there MAY be some still in Iraq.
4) Those who would know would have been very close to Saddam and are still protecting the knowledge, or killed to hide their knowledge. Also, I'm sure those who know where they are (assuming tnhere are WMD there) or are hiding them still believe that they may be in power again if they wait this thing out and would not "Roll Over". Keep in mind the people we are speaking of, they have very strong beliefs and loyalties to their causes and have no life in a free Iraq. (assumtion as with all these theories, noone really knows for sure one way or the other)

I am not trying to antaginize (sp) you, just making a point that noone knows either way, and to state the issue one way or the other is negligent. I would rather error on the side of caution. With all the deception that Saddam has shown the world it's hard to know what the truth is.

Also I have always found it interesting that the Iraqi's are know to be maticelous records keepers. Why then would they not have kept records of the destruction of their WMDs? There are tons and tons of WMDs unaccounted for. The UN agrees with this. It would have saved their A$$es if they had simply proved that they did destroy the WMDs to the UN over all those years.

As you, I also support the war, but I still question everything. I try to look at all the evidence and make a logical decission, unlike some who think whatever their political party thinks. You seem to be that way also. I also agree that securing oil is not criminal, it's survival. Every country does it.

Just my $0.02



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 08:47 AM
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When I stood in front of the tv, and watched the towers fall, and the other events of that day, i stated 2 things.....1. the enemy has made a tactical error in attacking the U.S. homeland, in particular the pentagon....and 2. we will be in a war, in particular, a war of disinformation, likely for the duration of my life, and I am currently 44 years old. It is dangerous, in my opinion, to make judgement on the current war without facts, of which, few common folk sitting in their living rooms have. It is disinformation that is being thrown about, and great heaps of it, heck, my grandpa said time and again "don't believe everything you read in the papers."



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 09:46 AM
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In a related story, reports say that terrorists had made a bid to buy these munitions, information gathered from informants....
 

Polish troops discover Iraq bio-weapons

Terrorists may have been close to obtaining munitions containing the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin that Polish soldiers recovered last month in Iraq, the head of Poland's military intelligence said Friday.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Sp:edit

[edit on 2-7-2004 by JacKatMtn]


df1

posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
I supported the war and continue to do so. But lets call it like it is and say that Saddam had fulfilled his usefullness, we needed to secure a good source of oil, and establish more bases in the region. The oil is particularly important esp. if the house of Saud falls.



At last an honest man. The reasons for war are exactly as you say. And I commend your truth, honor and integrity on the matter, characteristics which are obviously lacking in 99% of the supporters of this war all the way up to president. These other supporters of the war continue to twist facts, deceive and outright lie, perhaps even to themselves.

I do not support war, but I respect you for being a man about your position. Perhaps we will argue about this at another time, but for now I am still overwhelmed to finally hear some one speak the truth.
.

[edit on 2-7-2004 by df1]



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 09:53 AM
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I remember reading some intelligence newsletter before the war started talking about a lake near Baghdad that had apparently been mostly drained and the author was suggesting that they were burying stuff beneath the lake when water levels were low and then filled it up again.

I was skeptical at the time because it seemed like a pretty big undertaking and wouldn't our staellites have seen this? Especially if this newsletter author knew about it.

Just wondering if anyone else has heard this or any mention of exploring lake beds or anything.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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analysis confirmed that chemical agent GB-GF, cyclosarin, was found in the shells:




WARSAW (Reuters) - Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, Poland's military said on Friday.

"Beyond doubt these are shells from the 1980-1988 period, of the type used against Kurds and during the Iraq-Iran war."

Poland said on Thursday its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells filled with chemicals in late June and that U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons.


The statement from the Polish headquarters at Babylon said the shells had been hidden and that chemicals had leaked from one but the threat had been dealt with. Local people said unidentified individuals had offered the shells for sale.




If these shells had been used, in a mortar attack on Camp Babylon for example, the results would have been unthinkable

Polish Army Says Iraq Shells Had Deadly Cyclosarin

.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Thats it? I doubt seriously that we will ever find a smoking gun. If there was WMD in the country we would have found them by now.


thats because they are in syria.



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Another related story on the weapon find....
 

Troops 'foil Iraq nerve gas bid'

"We were mortified by the information that terrorists were looking for these warheads and offered $5,000 apiece," he said.

"An attack with such weapons would be hard to imagine. All of our activity was accelerated at appropriating these warheads."

US experts carried out tests on the warheads, which indicated the presence of cyclosarin and mustard gas.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.






posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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This is crazy.....

That is some serious WMD. Good thing they were found and didn't fall in the terrorists hands.

WMD is all over the place.....

Look at libya.... Tons of chemical wepons were found in a turkey farm.

WMD's couls be hidden anywhere... Iraq is one big desert.

I feel that most of the stuff ended up in syria but much of the banned weapons are still scattered all over iraq.

Later,
reason



posted on Jul, 2 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Riwka


If these shells had been used, in a mortar attack on Camp Babylon for example, the results would have been unthinkable




Actually, the US Military seems to disagree with that.


Gen Marek Dukaczewski said an attack using warheads such as these was hard to imagine.

But the US military said the agent was so deteriorated it posed no threat....

But the US military said that while two of the rockets tested positive for sarin, traces of the agent were so small and deteriorated as to be virtually harmless.

"These rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against coalition forces," a statement by the military said.


BBC, Troops foil gas bid


JacKatMtn, how are we both quoting the same original news source and giving two totally different impressions of what the article is saying? Nice try at spinning that BBC report. Please include quotes that represent the article's point. Your quotes were very misleading.

David Kay remarked today on NPR's All Things Considered that the explosion necessary to disperse the gas would be more harmful than the gas itself, due to the age of the weapons and quantity of the gas.

Weapons? Yes.
Weapons of mass destruction? No.

phaedrusxxx


[edit on 2-7-2004 by phaedrusxxx]

[edit on 2-7-2004 by phaedrusxxx]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 06:07 AM
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So it turns out they were just more duds that have tested negative -

story.news.yahoo.com.../afp/20040702/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_poland_weapons&ci



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