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Americans, I Have Some Bad News For You

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posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Redwookieaz
Well for all the financial freedoms those in other countries do enjoy over people in the US, they do in fact have less personal freedoms in return. See I can still protect myself and my family from the like of oppressive governments via guns. There are far too many countries where that is not allowed. So pick countries in Europe, but after the patriot act, you have sadly become prisoners in your own country.


That's one thing I've never understood. Back when the laws were made the government didn't have tanks, missiles, bombs (or the planes to deliver them), flamethrowers, tear gas, grenades, flashbangs, high rate-of-fire machine guns like gatlings etc. What possible hope does a person, hell even an entire town, have against that type of firepower with their comparitable peashooters?

I've believed for a long time now that the 'right to bear arms' is allowed more to quell the populace into thinking they still have rights and freedoms.
edit on 1/12/2010 by Kryties because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


SWAT just incase we dont know is Special Weapons And Tatics.

This basicly means that they are cops who have special building breaching and clearing training and are armed with non police standard weapons. They are also conditioned to kill better then your standard cop. BUT at the end of the day thay are still civilian peace keepers. If you want to worry about something comming into your house and ending you and your loved ones, its the military. We have bombs that we can put in your kitchen and time them to go off when you come home, we have guns that have a classified range that is measured in miles, we have all kinds of mean stuff. Oh and we are very, very good are breaking down doors if we absolutley need to keep the building intact. As for the freedoms of the citizen, most peoples rights were totally uneffected by the patriot act. Don't misunderstand me, that act is an abomination unto the united states, but until someone can deal with it w/o being called a terrizer then we have to live with it.

And it is my understanding that the other countries are directly funded in part by the government. I know first hand about the UK's TV tax, seening as I lived there for 3 years and married a brit. That said the lack of adverts was nice.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by SirKnightE
 

america is a myth based on lies held together by force of arms.
"when fascism comes to america it will come draped in the flag and clutching a cross" sinclair lewis
loyalty to der Homeland? what a good patriot.. "love it or leave it?" ..yeah,i'm outta here too.
left wing- right wing- on a buzzard picking the carcass. nothing but orwellian doublespeak.
perpetual wars, impoverishment of the people, being poisoned, sold out.. and fubar.
spied on, lied to, more inmates than china with 5 times our population in the
LAND OF THE FEE,HOME OF THE SLAVE.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Obinhi
You know, a thread like this is aways fun to read. Rather then focus on the facts it degens into a battle between people who hate america and people who love it. The fact is that the United States allows people to run the county who are elected. As the Tea Party has shown, love em' or hate em' you do not need to be high born, or super rich to get elected, you just need to tell the people what they want to hear. Yes americans dont take vacations very much, but really if it was such a huge problem then it would change. The reason most other countries have government mandated vacation time is to help ease other, deeper, social problems. Hell just look at europe, they cannot afford the life style by far and the people riot. AT least when the US goes into a slump it sucks, but not so much the half the nation buns by a looters hand.


It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the lifestyle. The riots in England are to do with a rise in tuition fees, the riots in France have to do with the rise in the retirement age
And good for them for rioting, they should make their voices heard. At least we aren't sitting back doing nothing for changes we don't want.

Oh and what do you mean we can't afford a "nice" lifestyle? We go on more foreign holidays, we all have the internet, tv's, plenty of nice clothes, food, gadgets, etc. People are constantly shopping. And anyway, what's so great about being able to buy big tv's and going shopping? Is that really the freedom you want? The freedom to buy as often and as much junk as you can? The majority of those material things aren't even important!

What's more important is having good shelter, good food, universal access to healthcare, access to education
and a universal access to university.

And how can you say we have more vacation days because we need them due to social problems. That is so bizarre! Perhaps it's because we have a different philosophy on life? Maybe you can't bring about the change to get more vacation days because it's easier to fire and hire someone in the US and if you get fired there isn't that much the government will do to support you?
edit on 1-12-2010 by monkey_descendant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Animatrix
 


You're really comparing USA and Afghanistan now?

The reasons the US is loosing it's revenge in Afghanistan are many, but a few points I think are that the oposition have almost unlimited manpower, a firm conviction among their troops of their purpose for fighting and they have very little to loose.
That's not what's happening in the US, rather the opposite In my opinion.


The only way you could pull taking over the US would be to have the military corporation backing you, wich isn't very likely seeing how they allready have the country without your help....



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Shark VA84
 


Thank you for posting such a great reply, I was starting to get upset with Some of my fellow americans due to the fact that they would run away from the problems here and not remember what there fathers and all before them have done to keep america going. We have to stick by one another and fight for our rights. Not run away and hope it all goes away. I was born a U.S citizen and will fight for my country No matter the cost. The real problem in this country is the voting in of men and woman that if people would research who these people are,They would have seen these people where not good for this country.

Never forget the past, because it holds many answers in our future. But the good news is it will all change. How do i know that? because it always does. Thats how our democracy works. It must shift back and forth in order for it to be affective. The first and foremost will be up to the people to help make the change. We have always been the voice and the backbone of this country.

People keep talking about a revolution, This wont be the case. It will be done By getting rid of those in power that corrupt. Am i willing to die for the cause? Your darn right i am. It only takes a few sacrifices to get the ball rolling. I have to do whats right for my children and the future of their children. If enough people make waves and stand up all at once, What do you all think will happen? Change will happen.

It's like the movie ant's, The big bad grasshoppers come and make the ants slave for them. Then at the end they realize they outnumber them by far and take control back. Not really a hard concept at all. Just who is willing to make that stand?

WAKE UP AMERICA !!! It is time to make that stand !!



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Obinhi
reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


SWAT just incase we dont know is Special Weapons And Tatics.

This basicly means that they are cops who have special building breaching and clearing training and are armed with non police standard weapons. They are also conditioned to kill better then your standard cop. BUT at the end of the day thay are still civilian peace keepers. If you want to worry about something comming into your house and ending you and your loved ones, its the military. We have bombs that we can put in your kitchen and time them to go off when you come home, we have guns that have a classified range that is measured in miles, we have all kinds of mean stuff. Oh and we are very, very good are breaking down doors if we absolutley need to keep the building intact. As for the freedoms of the citizen, most peoples rights were totally uneffected by the patriot act. Don't misunderstand me, that act is an abomination unto the united states, but until someone can deal with it w/o being called a terrizer then we have to live with it.

And it is my understanding that the other countries are directly funded in part by the government. I know first hand about the UK's TV tax, seening as I lived there for 3 years and married a brit. That said the lack of adverts was nice.


The only provider that receives government funding is the BBC. That's the reason we have a television "tax". However, you can watch other television channels online without buying a television lisence as long as it's not a live broadcast. So basically I have access to most things shown on TV whenever I want to see it without having to pay for it. Again, it's only the BBC that is government funded, we have plenty of other channels too, which aren't and which do have advertising.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Truth_B_Told
 


OP, your linked article is not the orignal source. The article is from the blog of Dmitry Orlov:

ClubOrlov

Dmitry is the author of the book Reinventing Collapse. He grew up in Russia and later moved to US. He has eyewitnessed the collapse of the Soviet Union and he sees many similarities in the coming collapse of USA.

His blog is not updated very frequently but every article on his blog provides insightful views on the predicament of USA and the world, caused partly by the depletion of fossil fuel on earth.

He also offered many tips and clues on how to survive a collapse like the one of the Soviet Union. However, the current social structure and culture of the USA offer the least for American people to cope with the hardship they will face in the near future.

Long read but much fun.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by monkey_descendant
It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the lifestyle. The riots in England are to do with a rise in tuition fees, the riots in France have to do with the rise in the retirement age


And why are they raising tuition and the retirement age????... wait for it... they can't afford the lifestyle.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


I said that just because a conventional force goes up against a modern military, the outcome isnt guaranteed, regardless of where it happens.
A conventional band of "insurgents" could lose every battle and still come out on top in the end, it just takes a lot longer that way and I have history to back it up.

It could be done here without military assistance with a lot of patience and a lot of KIA's



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by ledzeppelin489
 


America is one of the greatest countries? Don't make me laugh

Dumb Things Americans Believe

When the average American believes stuff like this, how can you even think that your country is the best on earth.

A lot of school kids and even adults don't know where things are on a geographical scale

Young Americans Geographically Illiterate

As for being the freest country on earth, you should probably think again

This thread was posted a while ago

20 Signs America Is No Longer Free


The obesity rate is still risings in the US



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


correction, the reason we are "losing" the Afghanistan War is because it is no more a war than a police action. If our military engaged that country with the mindset of say, the Nazis, there would no longer be a populace worth fighting (for).

I've been there. Done that. While there were plenty of "oh sh_t" contacts and extended battles in my time in that God-forsaken piece of Earth, it is the furthest thing from a war that I can imagine. There is no legitimate way to fight the U.S. in force-on-force combat. Our air, naval and infantry superiority can not be overstated. I'm being serious, not the usual "USA" bumper sticker moron. If U.S. American's want to know where a lot of their money has gone, well, take a look at military spending, supplies and logistics. The only way to fight against the U.S. is going the guerilla route.

Unless the U.S. is willing to engage 60%+ of the Arab nations, there is no point in furthering our occupation of Afghanistan or Iraq. The people of those lands don't desire freedom. They do not understand our concept of freedom. The unification of Islam and "Government" in the Middle East has constructed an ideology and way of life so vastly different from ours in the West, trying to give these people a democratic form of government is a practice in futility.

While there are many aspects of Islamic, Arabic and Middle Eastern culture and society that I came to embrace in my time over there (working, traveling or fighting), the entire region is bass-ackwards in my humble opinion. Freedom matters not when Islam provides the structural foundation for everything. While I empathize and sympathize with many in the Middle East, we can't just hand them our Western ways. They either have to fight and die earning it themselves or continue to live in a delusional, prophet-fueled world of ignorance and hatred.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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The most ridiculous post I have ever seen. Urging people to leave the U.S., be my guest.
I have lived in several countries in Europe for over ten years and many of these facts are misleading.

Take for example Germany, the state determines at an early age...I believe what we would equate to sixth or seventh grade what you will do in life. If your not a bright student at that age it's off to learn a trade which you will do very good at but no choice for college. The bright kids go to gymnasium and off too the university.

Where is the King of Saudi Arabia getting his health care at right now...the U.S. speaks volumes.

Most countries in Europe have a lottery every year, just for the right to apply to immigrate to the U.S. it is full every year without exception, but we require Europeans to bring something to us.

Private land in Europe is non-existent for the most part...yes you can own your house and small lot but try and by a 100 acres of land anywhere in Europe...not happening

People in Europe are very meticulous to the point of anal through there socialistic training in my opinion.

You think paperwork and regulations, car registration, elecricity, etc are a pain in the states ...try it in Europe....

Not to say I don't enjoy Europe, it has many things to offer...but to say we should leave America is just ludicrous...just a few thoughts



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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I do so love these anti-American hate threads that seem to pop up here on ATS about once a week. Like deja vu, just like clockwork, someone post's another thread about how horrible we Americans have it, how awful our way of life has suffered, how we are all fat ignorant infiltrators who are ruining the world.

Did you ever stop to think that it isnt every American who claims or even believes that the USA is #1 or the best country in the world? Funny how I live here and I rarely if ever encounter that kind of boastful commentary from anyone. I only encounter it through trolls on the internet, and obviosly people like you all from other countries who just cant seem to stop writing and talking and complaining about us, no matter how unimportant and hated you claim us to be.

Did any of you ever think that maybe we as American are no different from you? Maybe we are born here and are victims of circumstance? How many of you great people out there who feel that you are so much better than us actually walk the walk? How many of you have managed to change the way your government operates in any meaningful way? My guess is that your corrupt government probably doesnt listen to you any more so than ours listens to us.

Many of you degrade and insult American people and American culture while not only living in a different country, but having never once been here personally. You like to spew your rhetoric without basing it upon anything grounded in fact. Let me ask you this, what is worse...a person whop lives here claiming that the US is a great country, or people like YOU who insult an entire nation of 300 million people without ever having been there? Hypocrite much?

In reality I doubt there is very much difference between any of you living outside of the states versus those of us who do live here. We are all trying to scratch out a living, we are all trying to raise our families and make due in any way we can. I can understand attacking a government for its policies and its actions, as Im sure the American government has given plenty of instances for people to disagree with. However dont pretend that any of you live in a country that doesnt have some sort of corruption or blood on its hands.

So save your vitriol for those who deserve it. Making incessant thread after thread about hating the US and American citizens just comes off as sad and pathetic and petty, and if you have never been here and you dont know any actual Americans maybe it is time that you did. Stop believing all of the crap you see on tv and read on the internet and actually make the effort to find out for yourself. We arent any different from you, so hate away but you are only hating yourselves and people just like you.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by monkey_descendant
It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the lifestyle. The riots in England are to do with a rise in tuition fees, the riots in France have to do with the rise in the retirement age


And why are they raising tuition and the retirement age????... wait for it... they can't afford the lifestyle.


Absolute rubbish. The reason they are doing it in France is because life expectancy is going up, so to pay for more of a pension someone has to work for a few more years. That has nothing to do with not being able to afford it, that's a natural progression, if you're going to survive longer you'll need to work longer to provide for an old age.

Tuition fees are going up out of IDEOLOGY rather than need. That's right. The current tory, (your republicans in a way) are making cuts to everything due to classist IDEOLOGY rather than because of the deficit. It has been shown not only in the past but also by current economists that the cuts they are making are MORE harmful to the economy than good. And ACTUALLY the tuition fees are going up, BUT the government is STILL paying exactly the same amount for the degrees. BECAUSE THE LOANS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND DO NOT HAVE TO BE PAID BACK. Yes, you don't pay back the loan if you can't afford to, in fact the debt is written off after a certain amount of time. By raising the tuition fees the government claims they will be subsidising the universities less, but since the loans come from the government the government is paying exactly the same as it was before. The only reason they are doing this is because they want to SCARE poorer individuals into not studying. But since you don't have to repay the loan if you cannot afford to, EVER, it actually makes no difference. The point here is the ideology.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Griffo
 


Hate to break it to you over there across the pond, but if you believe what you read in those provided links, then you are as ignorant as anyone. Have you ever traveled to the U.S.? Have you ever taken the time to get to know people on an individual basis over here? Or are you content believing in this fantasy that the U.S. is nothing but obese, gun-loving, geographically ignorant people? I'm going to take the high road and not post generic, hate-fueled B.S. that anyone can dig up about the U.K., Australia, etc etc etc.

Keep believing what the TV tells you, it never lies.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Soldier of God
 


So you support the restriction of education from those who cannot afford it do you? Also the squashing of a persons right to a decent living free from slavery?

People like that are generally known as tyrants.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719
I do so love these anti-American hate threads that seem to pop up here on ATS about once a week. Like deja vu, just like clockwork, someone post's another thread about how horrible we Americans have it, how awful our way of life has suffered, how we are all fat ignorant infiltrators who are ruining the world.

Did you ever stop to think that it isnt every American who claims or even believes that the USA is #1 or the best country in the world? Funny how I live here and I rarely if ever encounter that kind of boastful commentary from anyone. I only encounter it through trolls on the internet, and obviosly people like you all from other countries who just cant seem to stop writing and talking and complaining about us, no matter how unimportant and hated you claim us to be.

Did any of you ever think that maybe we as American are no different from you? Maybe we are born here and are victims of circumstance? How many of you great people out there who feel that you are so much better than us actually walk the walk? How many of you have managed to change the way your government operates in any meaningful way? My guess is that your corrupt government probably doesnt listen to you any more so than ours listens to us.

Many of you degrade and insult American people and American culture while not only living in a different country, but having never once been here personally. You like to spew your rhetoric without basing it upon anything grounded in fact. Let me ask you this, what is worse...a person whop lives here claiming that the US is a great country, or people like YOU who insult an entire nation of 300 million people without ever having been there? Hypocrite much?

In reality I doubt there is very much difference between any of you living outside of the states versus those of us who do live here. We are all trying to scratch out a living, we are all trying to raise our families and make due in any way we can. I can understand attacking a government for its policies and its actions, as Im sure the American government has given plenty of instances for people to disagree with. However dont pretend that any of you live in a country that doesnt have some sort of corruption or blood on its hands.

So save your vitriol for those who deserve it. Making incessant thread after thread about hating the US and American citizens just comes off as sad and pathetic and petty, and if you have never been here and you dont know any actual Americans maybe it is time that you did. Stop believing all of the crap you see on tv and read on the internet and actually make the effort to find out for yourself. We arent any different from you, so hate away but you are only hating yourselves and people just like you.


Actually the only reason I'm responding to this thread at all is to defend my country from a few arrogant "the USA is the best in the world, and even if we have some problems now you won't find anywhere else better" remarks. This is so naive, arrogant, and short-sighted.

My lifestyle in the two countries I've lived in have been GREAT. I've never had to worry about finances, or my healthcare, or my university education. Thanks.

I have nothing against Americans at all, except for those with the views in my first paragraph.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by aliengenes
i'm an american and ive been on vacation my entire life.....thread fail


Was that you at last year's Club Med New Year's Eve party? Could have been one of your siblings. Life is good for us Americans who know how to invest and make money. If everyone in America had the same skills, then a million wouldn't be worth much.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by aliengenes
i'm an american and ive been on vacation my entire life.....thread fail


I was just thinking that a 'Roughing It' vacation in America is a hotel without room service.
edit on 1-12-2010 by fredcall because: (no reason given)



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