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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on May, 20 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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No country is ever communist. Communism as described by Marx is similar to "perfection." It's an ultimate goal, like humanity trying to reach perfection or something like that. In true communism, there would be no government! There would be no currency. Everybody would naturally share because production is not privately owned and is good enough to supply everybody adequately.

Socialism is viewd by some as the transition government between capitalism and communism. Marx's prediction for the evolution of society is feudalism > capitalism > socialism > communism. Socialism often needs to be authoritarian, to forcibly transform the self serving minds to super-ego minds. Some argue that socialism is unnecessary for transitioning from capitalism to communism, but the likelihood of that is low.

Another thing, it's a bit inaccurate to say "China and Taiwan." When you say "China," you're referring to both the People's Republic of China (mainland) and the Republic of China (island, aka Taiwan). You don't say "China invades Taiwan" or else you're saying the whole China, Taiwan included, wants to invade Taiwan. That doesn't make sense. Taiwan itself is a half of the split-up country called China, named Republic of China. It's like DPRK (North Korea) and ROK (South Korea). You don't say Korea invades South Korea, do you?




posted on May, 21 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by Taishyou
Another thing, it's a bit inaccurate to say "China and Taiwan." When you say "China," you're referring to both the People's Republic of China (mainland) and the Republic of China (island, aka Taiwan). You don't say "China invades Taiwan" or else you're saying the whole China, Taiwan included, wants to invade Taiwan. That doesn't make sense. Taiwan itself is a half of the split-up country called China, named Republic of China. It's like DPRK (North Korea) and ROK (South Korea). You don't say Korea invades South Korea, do you?


That is the problem. See, PRC don't wanto to recognize the existence of the statehood of "ROC" or Taiwan, and they have done a wonderful job of making most of the countries in the world to take notice of their "fact." Korea is a bit different because they are both recognized as states, therefore, you have to refer to them as North or South Korea to make the distinction.

Now that most of the world and people around the world recognize the "one China" as People's Republic of China, when people refer to China, they mean People's Republic of China, there is no ambiguity.

If you go out now and say you are from Republic of China, ROC, most people will think you are from China (PRC). The only people that might make the distinction are people in Taiwan and China.

In the most private business sector around the world today, Taiwan, not ROC, is used to refer to Taiwan, there is no ambiguity. And Taiwan, not ROC, is recognized as a de facto independent country. Welcome to the 21st century...the name ROC only exists in Taiwan and the 20th century history.


[edit on 21-5-2005 by twchang]



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 03:44 AM
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Obviously a long post. WHAT THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT WHAT CHINA DOES OR TAIWAN NEEDS TO BE DEFEBDED BY?



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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CSB won't ever get the chance to switch the names of his runaway province, who's gonna give a crap of what Taiwan is called if they don't even believe that Taiwan exists. THe fact is Taiwan doesn't exist as an independant nation, you need to formally declare independance and report to the UN for all the other due processes.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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The state that Taiwan is in right now is the "status quo." It's independent in almost everything except in name. It has its own government, own military, etc., and it mostly operates without having to seek permission from the CCP every time they make a decision. So you could say it's halfway between being a part of China and being a separate state.

The PRC does not have full control of Taiwan right now, in the future it might, but not right now. Though the CCP LIKES to regard Taiwan as part of the PRC, the truth is that until full control of the island is obtained, the PRC still only means the mainland. However, the word "China" will always refer to both the mainland and the island, just as "Korea" refers both to North Korea and South Korea. That's why I said it doesn't make sense to say "China invades Taiwan."

[edit on 21-5-2005 by Taishyou]



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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Independance I was referring to was formal independance not an independance where almost no one believes in, Taiwan is currently in a state of runaway province just like it has been the several times in the past few centuries (truth is Taiwan was always a pain the in @ss and this is just another one of those situations).



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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just that this renegade state posses high technology advancements , decent economy and more importantly extraordinarie spending powers on u.s manufactured weapons. now the US is involved ; good taiwan-us relations n etc etc , and china getting stronger , u.s are fearing china's rise in power n so it literaly become china vs u.s thing behind the curtain , dont forget u.s still has alot influence on taiwan politician. taiwan wants to stack up warheads while u.s always go for the gold, double win for both sides, and sure enough u.s will not let go of its major influence at this part of the globe, close enough to china to deploy nuclear subs for all sorts of millitary and spying purposes.
so.... this issue is something.

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Xlashz]



posted on May, 25 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Some interesting articles regarding Taiwan's military in Taipei Times:

www.taipeitimes.com...

www.taipeitimes.com...

Hopefully the military knows what they are doing. And Taiwan should seriously consider increasing its military budget a bit.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Didn't Taiwan's parliament just give a no to the military arms purchase? So that means no subs for Taiwan?



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Yep, many are starting to speculate if pan blue (KMT, PFP) are doing China a favor, or reaching some sort of secret agreement with China. They have a combined majority in Legislative Yuan, therefore they have the power to deny the budget.

Before, China tried to pressure Washington not to sell Taiwan anymore arms, but that doesn't work too well. It wouldn't be a surprise if they turn to KMT and PFP, which are "pro China", and start degrading Taiwan's military from within.

Hopefully in the next election, pan Green can get the majority so things such as the military budget and other special budget that are essential to Taiwan's future can be properly discussed instead of just denied.

I suggest that perhaps US should offer Taiwan even more advance equipment such as JSF, nuclear subs, advance destroyers and cruise missiles. Since the pan blue keeps using "we don't want to buy craps" as the reason of denying for the past few years, even though what US offers are hardly "craps", maybe what US should do is offering something spectacular to make them shut up.

Oh, and maybe upgrade those F-16's capability and give some AIM-120s and AGM-65s as extra gifts for the purchases, hahaha. Then pan blue can't come up with a good reason to deny the purchase.

[edit on 27-5-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 27-5-2005 by twchang]



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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If for any reason Taiwan goes back to China, all those will be studied and reverse engineered by the Chinese, and also all the tech transferred. Thats why the US won't offer anything like that (nuke subs,F-15s,Aegis, and certainly not nukes
)



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 08:22 PM
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well, they can sign a contract saying if Taiwan goes back to China, all the purchases from US will be transferred back to US or be destroyed under US supervision. Plus if they are really worried they won't even sell Taiwan F-16 or PAC 3 and other stuff.

But you are right. They might be spying right now hahahaha. Several spies have been caught in the past.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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Taiwan did a study on Aegis' capability to intercept ballistic missiles a few years ago, saying that at current situations Taiwan would need 10 Aegis (Arleigh Burkes) destroyers to minimize the danger of BMs but Taiwan could never afford 10 Aegis destroyers and it would take too long to build them, by the time the order will be delivered, Taiwan would need even more Arleigh Burkes. Cruise missile will then pose more danger than BMs.

Taiwan will never get any true top of the line American equipment because Taiwan's future is really uncertain and most likely will join China is the upcoming years, the equipment Taiwan has will be studied and incorporated into our own designs which is not a good thing for America.

Hope Pan Blue wins in 2008. Hope KMT's new president is just as good a person as Lian Zhan.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
Hope Pan Blue wins in 2008. Hope KMT's new president is just as good a person as Lian Zhan.


If you know him better, you wouldn't think he is a good person.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
If for any reason Taiwan goes back to China, all those will be studied and reverse engineered by the Chinese, and also all the tech transferred. Thats why the US won't offer anything like that (nuke subs,F-15s,Aegis, and certainly not nukes
)


True, but the full on versions of planes are almost never offered for export. So at best they would have an inferior version. I agree though that it is a big problem if it comes to pass. But Isreal may have sold them plenty already anyway to copy. The Bush administration did offer them Aegis and Pac-3's (I think). While the poster above makes a good point about the large numbers needed to defend the whole country, I think they are more looking at point defence of major cities.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:50 AM
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Damn Fred do you think this will reach 100 pages?

Its the thread that wouldnt die



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Damn Fred do you think this will reach 100 pages?

Its the thread that wouldnt die


No kidding..... Everytime it drops off and you think it will be put down, it pops back up
Yeah Ill bet it hits the century mark at some point



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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Well if Taiwan is China(ha ha!). Then it is the China that everyone is looking and hoping for. The china where democracy works, the economy is good, graft and corruption are low, IPR is somewhat protected, health care is good, income is high, education is pervasive, and freedom is everywhere.

Long Live a Free Taiwan!



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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Taiwan was not democratic until a few years ago



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
Well if Taiwan is China(ha ha!). Then it is the China that everyone is looking and hoping for. The china where democracy works, the economy is good, graft and corruption are low, IPR is somewhat protected, health care is good, income is high, education is pervasive, and freedom is everywhere.

Long Live a Free Taiwan!


do you know that until quite recently taiwan still claimed the ownedship of the mainland and still made threats of retaking it



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