Can China Invade Taiwan?

here is an article in state media by a member of the chinese governments state council on how the government should de-regulate the economy.

Perhaps you should read it bodebliss

www.china.org.cn...

Optimizing economic structure and refashioning the economic growth pattern is an old topic that has been discussed and implemented for years. But we have still made little headway in this respect and there has been a tendency for heavy industries to overemphasize efforts to modify the economic growth pattern.

Why?

To a large extent, the government, which fails to fully respect the role of the market in allocating resources, is behind the tendency.

First, it is necessary to clarify what "refashioning economic growth pattern" actually means.

Bodbliss,

You sound to be very confused to me. Don't companies like Huawei, Levono which just bought IBM's PC division provide jobs, well paid jobs for our people? What's wrong with that?

There is not set rule in the world that says a semi-socialist, semi-market economy like what China has can't work. In fact, we are doing quite well despite the obstacles we face. I can only say that the people of China today is rather content with our government, which is doing a spenlandid job navigating our economy. BTW, it is universally recognized by economists, many nobel laureats that the Chinese government has done a job on the economy second to none.

We have a bright fufure despite the difficulties we face internally and externally because we know our destiny. Our culture and our civilization will always be one of the most illustrious because we know what we have and what we are capable of. After all, you can't just have the only continuous civilization of 5000 years for nothing.

Hawkssss,

I guarantee you this, I am clear minded on the subject of which I have spoken.

You say your civilization is 5000 years old. Well I know something of the nature and source of your need for authoritarian government. This need comes from the very early irrigation schemes needed to feed burgeoning population of China. For 1000's of years, control to implement irrigation schemes has been beat into one generation after another till the Chinese just go happily along with another control scheme.


The concept of freedom on which my country is built goes back much further than your small 5000 years. It goes back to the very start of civilization in Europe, 10,000 BC. It flows from there through the pre-Celtic tribes 8000 BC , 4000 BC, 2000 BC. It influenced the early Greeks and gave rise to their democracies. It gave birth to the Celts and their need for freedom, and decentralization, and to fight rule from afar.

Yes, you think America is the new kid on the block, but that is ignorance. The concepts on which democracy is built is older than the spoken language of any race or any settlement in Europe or Africa or Asia.

It is ancient beyond ancient. Embrace it and understand.

True, democracy is a concept I think conceived by the greeks. BTW, it is by no means from 10000 years ago. I think you are confusing tribal rules with the concept of civilization. Beyond the 5000 years, China also had our pre-historical tribal periods in which our own methology rose. In fact, one of the common themes of our pre-historical events is the great flood that destroed much of the world, also recorded by the middle eastern people.

True, we have always had to contain our rivers. In fact, we did tame a large part of it. A great dam was built about 2000 years ago which still operates today over the Yantze. The dam is a civil engineering marvel which has made the basen of Sichuan of the bread baskets of China for 2000 years and one of the most populous provinces too.

Without the so-called democrazy, we have survived for the longest among ancient civilizations till this day and are doing quite well currently. Democrazy is but one of many forms of political system that we humans have experiemented with. What china needs is a system that fits with our culture, which in the next 50 years will most probably not be like what you have in the west. In china, we take the good of the group over that of the individual. This is a point that we believe fundamentally and it has worked for us for thousands of years.

I am not denying that democrazy is not a a great system, maybe the best so far in human history. However, China is not ready for that yet.

It may be that true democracy began with the Greeks, but the earliest recordings of pre-celtic tribes mentions that the chiefs of the tribes were elected by a vote of the men to be governed, and not by contest of arms.

im kinda a n00b here, so cut me some slack...
i just wanna say that china invading taiwan would be like the combined forces of the US, Canada, and Mexico ganging up on Reno, nevada.i think China could get away w/ an invasion

Originally posted by bodebliss
Hawkssss,

I guarantee you this, I am clear minded on the subject of which I have spoken.

You say your civilization is 5000 years old. Well I know something of the nature and source of your need for authoritarian government. This need comes from the very early irrigation schemes needed to feed burgeoning population of China. For 1000's of years, control to implement irrigation schemes has been beat into one generation after another till the Chinese just go happily along with another control scheme.


The concept of freedom on which my country is built goes back much further than your small 5000 years. It goes back to the very start of civilization in Europe, 10,000 BC. It flows from there through the pre-Celtic tribes 8000 BC , 4000 BC, 2000 BC. It influenced the early Greeks and gave rise to their democracies. It gave birth to the Celts and their need for freedom, and decentralization, and to fight rule from afar.

Yes, you think America is the new kid on the block, but that is ignorance. The concepts on which democracy is built is older than the spoken language of any race or any settlement in Europe or Africa or Asia.

It is ancient beyond ancient. Embrace it and understand.

Bodebliss,

Although I disagree with Chinese using China's long history as evidence of its power, I must also disagree with you.

The long history of democracy should not be used as proof of its effectiveness. Like most forms of gov't, democracy works better for certain situations and environments than others.

I could have argued for the effectiveness of anarchy using its long history (it has been around since the dawn of life on Earth).

Democracy's long history is irrelevant.

Nox,

Was there really any anarchy?

Or was DNA recording success and loss , counting the advantage of one system over another all along?

Bode Bliss

Originally posted by autopilot
i just wanna say that china invading taiwan would be like the combined forces of the US, Canada, and Mexico ganging up on Reno, nevada.i think China could get away w/ an invasion

Unfortunately the USA sticks its nose into everything we do,so an invasion is not just China against Taiwan.Also North Korea,China is doing to North Korea what the USA is doing to Taiwan.

when anybody try to propagate an extreme ideology.

Logically, he is equal to

Islamic Fundementalism;

or, Christian Fundermentalism;

or, Communism;

or Nazi;

bodebliss, that is what you basically are. When you hold "democrazy" as a bible to resolve anything, you are stupid, that is plain simple.



[edit on 12-12-2004 by proteinx]

sorry you might feel that way, proteinx

Originally posted by bodebliss
Nox,

Was there really any anarchy?

Or was DNA recording success and loss , counting the advantage of one system over another all along?

Bode Bliss

Bodebliss,

You amuse me with these trivialities. You obviously completely missed the entire context. Try reading between the lines.

Anyway, in response to what you've asked me, let me ask you an equally biased question:
Was there really any democracy?

Or was sensationalism and intimidation always used in propaganda and enforcement, centralizing power under one individual or republic authority?

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Actually, the American media ignores China pretty much too. Journalists don't necessarily, but the mainstream media doesn't mention much of China at all, at least not from what I have seen.

When I say American media, I don't just mean American news. I mean everything from Hollywood, to news, to music, to advertisement. An anti-China sentimentality has been the unspoken message of American media since the beginning of the Cold War.
Viacom, Disney, News Corps, Time Warner, etc, etc...

American media enforces ideals into Americans that instills automatic aggression and antagonism against those who don't fit the American idealogy. It has been doing so since America's conception as a nation. It has been doing so even more often at the start of the Cold War. The Red Scare is still very alive.

Most people I know, given the question, "What country is communist?" would name China as their first answer. (Not surprising).

Any idealogy that goes against the contradictory yet sacred American values of "Freedom" and "Equality" is automatically an enemy of America. We remain in ignorance because of this.

So many Americans I know would criticize China without offering sensible solutions to China's problems. I've heard similar criticisms of India's segregation without any insight on India's society and religion. In other words, American media sensationalism has made us ignorant. All insults, no actions, no suggestions. That is what I'm saying.

Nox,
There is democracy or the whole world(except for Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Myanmar, and China) is in a dream state.

True anarchy existed before the advent of DNA. Since then it has been a staedy rise to the current state of affairs, except in China where evolution has appeared to stop.

Bode Bliss

Bodebliss,

I will assume that you don't know what democracy is, yet you keep mentioning it.

A pure democracy is "mobocracy". All it means it "majority rule".

America and Taiwan are ruled by Democratic Republic governments. Elected officials hold power. The officials are elected by the majority.

Pure democracy is closer to communism than you can ever imagine.

If you want to argue about this, then I'm afraid I'm wasting my time. Argue with someone else (there will be people here who disagree with you).

EDIT: I'm not even going to TOUCH the mentioning of DNA as a deterrent to anarchy. I'm sure I don't need to.

[edit on 13-12-2004 by Nox]

Communism will simply never work as you cannot overcome human nature. Homer Simpson summs it up best:

In Therory Lisa, But Communism works, In Theroy

Originally posted by FredT
Communism will simply never work as you cannot overcome human nature. Homer Simpson summs it up best:

In Therory Lisa, But Communism works, In Theroy

Actually, I disagree.
Any form of gov't can work, given the right context, environment, and circumstances.

Communism can work in very small, sheltered societies.

Originally posted by FredT
Communism will simply never work as you cannot overcome human nature. Homer Simpson summs it up best

Like I said ..Homer Simpson for Prez!!

Originally posted by Nox
Actually, I disagree.
Communism can work in very small, sheltered societies.

Shocking that you disagree

So your saying that communicm has failed or is failing in China? Not exactly a small sheltered society. Is there instances where it has worked beyond that? Greater good will not overcome basic human drive unless brainwashing and large amounts of drugs it seems are involved. Even the "model" communes that are based loosly on communism fail eventually.

PS. Don't drink the Kool Aid

Nox,

That's a good observation because for short periods of time, measured in months usually, communism flourished in frontier communities in America's past.