Can China Invade Taiwan?

Chinese culture is 2000 years old . They had an empirer 2000 years ago that burned all the prior books and destroyed all prior histories by putting historians to death. and then China had the Red guard burn the books again making Taiwan the store house of Chinese culture.

Human history is 250,000 years old!

Originally posted by proteinx
I have to inform you human history in 5000 years are evolutionary not revolutionary at all (whose words? I forget).

only power speak.
only self benifit considered.
that is damn cold truth. we all dreaming world peace. sorry, not yet.
5000 years, just like yesterday.

I would agree with one thing. Power and greed still run the world, as always. That is the cold hard truth.

However, power doesn't just come in one form. It's not always in the shape of a nuclear warhead.

It comes in other forms like media and propaganda. You know as well as I do that American success has largely been due to the American Dream. Children aren't taught about the American Dream in schools for nothing. It contributes to social phenomenons like the "brain drain" and American nationalism. It's still around.

When people from other countries want to come to America, it's a symbol of power.

When countries like Taiwan value American imported clothing over their own brands, that shows American power.

This power is easily seen as we export to countries who value our products over their own.

When the only globally recognized film industry is Hollywood (Bollywood making Hindi movies almost exclusively), it shows American power over other countries. The success of Western philosophies can partially be attributed to America. The Cold War was won by Disney and other media conglomerates, not nukes (thank God not a single nuke was fired at one another).

When American nationalism is strong. That is power.

Germany preWW2 was weak, bankrupt socially and financially. It gained incredible power in an incredibly short time because their country became extremely nationalist in a short amount of time, united under Hitler.

Contrastingly, America lost the Vietnam War because of lack of morale and popular support.

This is precisely why China can't attack Taiwan. It can't unambiguously throw away its righteousness. It would antagonize other countries. The views and opinions of other countries DO matter because it often times reflects on the country's own citizens thoughts and feelings.

I think China would show a LOT more power by uniting with Taiwan peacefully than it EVER could by belligerently taking it over.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]

nox wroteI think China would show a LOT more power by absorbing Taiwan peacefully than it EVER could by belligerently taking it over.

I think China Allot More Power by just shutting up and walking away!

Next time Taiwan's admission to the UN comes up China can double shutup and hide in a corner.

Originally posted by bodebliss
Chinese culture is 2000 years old . They had an empirer 2000 years ago that burned all the prior books and destroyed all prior histories by putting historians to death. and then China had the Red guard burn the books again making Taiwan the store house of Chinese culture.

Human history is 250,000 years old!

bodiless, go back read some chinese history book, have you ever heard a chinese nuclear sub called "Xia"? that was 3000 B.C. by the way, how much do you know about Chinese, why bother for you to talk about Chinese history since you are not Chinese.

Since you obtained so much illigal Chinese books, return them to us since you are NOT chinese anymore. and, you use the treasure from fobidden city do the tour show around europe, return them back to us also.

what a funny and mean character we see here, on the one hand showing his priority having Chinese treasures, on the other hand denying he has anything todo with China and he is not chinese anymore.
Then, plain simple, give them back us. Just like our request for that island. If you donto return, we will teach you how to return things by guns and bombs.

by the way, if you know human beings have been through such long history, then what are then yelling about all the time about your request for that island for staying there for only 50 years?

see your funny part, huh?



[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]

Originally posted by bodebliss

nox wroteI think China would show a LOT more power by absorbing Taiwan peacefully than it EVER could by belligerently taking it over.

I think China Allot More Power by just shutting up and walking away!

Next time Taiwan's admission to the UN comes up China can double shutup and hide in a corner.

yeah, keep dreaming and play your own LP and you will feel even happier and excited.

It's a sure sign of bias and brainwashing when you can name absolutely nothing positive about your enemy.

It's apparent that you see nothing good about China, and are letting history blind you to the present.

Personally, I would be satisfied with just a strong relationship between China and Taiwan.

I know however, that Asian countries with strong economies rarely have the strongest healthiest relationships with each other. Just by being successful Japan had antagonized the rest of Asia for a long time. By being successful, China is antagonizing Japan. Now militarization of both countries is becoming obvious.

I especially don't like seeing the hostilities build between Taiwan and China as both grow, becoming more successful. Personally, I think unification would be healthier for both countries in the future, when their idealogies coincide more closely.

EDIT: No offense to Canada and Mexico, but America is blessed to be surrounded by such passive countries.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]

Originally posted by Nox

I understand your fears. You think that any sort of national pride would lead to prejudice against "impure" ethnicities living in China/Taiwan (let's call this future country, Chiwan...

).

hmm...that is a good point, but it is not my concern at all. My main fear is that this type of pride would fuel a nation and turn it into a aggressive and relentless war machine for no reason other than it's pride.

Nox wrote: America lost the Vietnam War

What about when China lost it's war w/ Vietnam. Here little Vietnam kick big PLA butt. Sorry, PLA ! You can't fight Vietnam and PLA is right there on Vietnam's border.

How PLA gonna fight Taiwan so far away?



[edit on 12/5/2004 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by twchang

Originally posted by Nox

I understand your fears. You think that any sort of national pride would lead to prejudice against "impure" ethnicities living in China/Taiwan (let's call this future country, Chiwan...

).

hmm...that is a good point, but it is not my concern at all. My main fear is that this type of pride would fuel a nation and turn it into a aggressive and relentless war machine for no reason other than it's pride.

as long as you guys keep stimulating China mainland. it takes 10 years maybe for China recover. But it turn taiwan into wasteland forever.
So keep doing it.

Hey, tell a little history by the way:
Thatcher told Deng Xiaoping in 1984: China cannot take hongkong back, that will be disaster for hongkong and China.
Deng replied: Really?....... then...... we have to face and prepare the disaster.

Thatcher falled when she walked out of the hall.

understood?

Originally posted by twchang
hmm...that is a good point, but it is not my concern at all. My main fear is that this type of pride would fuel a nation and turn it into a aggressive and relentless war machine for no reason other than it's pride.

Like America.

I highly doubt that a large scale war would occur when Chiwan is at the peak of prosperity. I will agree that when Chiwan's socio-economic structure starts crumbling... that is when we'll have to worry.
But it does no good thinking that far ahead. Anything can happen that far ahead. The USSR broke up fairly peacefully, without any American casualties.

For the most part, the entire world would practically be on their toes against Chiwan. No one would risk confrontation. Why would they? The US has, and always will have enough warheads to carpet China AND Taiwan both. I think a proper balance is good.

Right now, all we have is the US. Currently even the EU can't compare.
The fact that the US leaving the UN would trigger a gradual collapse of UN power just goes to show the lack of balance in the world right now.

Besides, by the time Chiwan is born, don't you think it would have become slightly more democratic already? Suitable for enough for America's tastes?

So besides a little bullying around, what else will Chiwan be doing that the US already isn't?

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]

Originally posted by bodebliss

Nox wrote: America lost the Vietnam War

What about when China lost it's war w/ Vietnam. Here little Vietnam kick big PLA butt. Sorry, PLA ! You can't fight Vietnam and PLA is right there on Vietnam's border.

How PLA gonna fight Taiwan so far away?

[edit on 12/5/2004 by bodebliss]

yeah, we lose the war to Vietnam.......

whatelse in your mind? why not show all your history views?
oh, yeah, Japan must have defeated USA.
and Jesus was born in Taiwan?.
...anything else?



[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]

Originally posted by bodebliss

Nox wrote: America lost the Vietnam War

What about when China lost it's war w/ Vietnam. Here little Vietnam kick big PLA butt. Sorry, PLA ! You can't fight Vietnam and PLA is right there on Vietnam's border.

How PLA gonna fight Taiwan so far away?

[edit on 12/5/2004 by bodebliss]

Are you simply not informed with history or are you just plain ignorant. We beat Vietnam alright? We almost attacked to Chim (something something, you know, their capital) and then we noticed attacked our communist partner does not harm our enemy and only weakens ourselves so we stopped. Man learn a little about history of China first, oops I forgot you don't wanna be Chinese. So I guess now your gonna say oh we retreated back to Taiwan in 1949 and we could still take back the whole entire mainland. By the way if you just can't notice, that was sarcasm.

Originally posted by bodebliss
What about when China lost it's war w/ Vietnam. Here little Vietnam kick big PLA butt. Sorry, PLA ! You can't fight Vietnam and PLA is right there on Vietnam's border.

How PLA gonna fight Taiwan so far away?

[edit on 12/5/2004 by bodebliss]

What? No where did I even mention that China would take Taiwan by force. So your statement is completely out of context.
And it's wrong too, as COWlan pointed out.

Will both of you open your minds for one instant? A war is unreasonable right now. Hopefully, it'll stay as just sabre rattling. America is in a very violent mood right now. I don't care how much some of us want to see strong countries like China and America duke it out. That would be just stupid. I live on the Golden West Coast for crying out loud. The last thing I want to think about is a WW3 started in the pacific.
I'm sure some of you would love living on a scorched Earth.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]

I guess:

they are really going to think Jesus was born in taiwan in few years.

I think bodebliss just discredited himself.

Although communist China had backed North Vietnam in its struggle against South Vietnam and the United States, the Chinese and Vietnamese were traditional enemies; tensions between the two increased when Vietnam strengthened its ties with the Soviet Union, invaded Laos and Cambodia (Kampuchea) in late 1978, and expelled Chinese living in Vietnam. On February 17, 1979, some 120,000 well-equipped Chinese troops crossed the border into northern Vietnam in several places and seized control of several towns; they penetrated 25 miles into Vietnamese territory, encountering stiff resistance. Divisions from Vietnamese occupying forces in Cambodia arrived to reinforce the resistance, which was unable, however, to prevent the Chinese capture of Lang Son, a vital center in Vietnam's northern provinces, on March 3, 1979. About the same time, a separate Chinese force reached the coastal town of Quang Yen, some 100 miles from Hanoi, after several days of fierce fighting against Vietnamese units. Meanwhile, Vietnamese counteroffensives across the border into China's Yunnan province were repulsed. Declaring its punitive military operation against Vietnam a success, China began withdrawing its forces about March 6, 1979, and within two weeks they were all back on Chinese territory. Subsequently, there were many exchanges of fire along the Chinese-Vietnamese border and numerous talks to reach an accord, but no treaty or settlement was concluded.

www.onwar.com...
Other links easily accessible. Search for terms "Sino Vietnamese War".

This should explain things a bit.

What it doesn't explain is what I hear from family members.

Chinese soldiers fought guerilla warfare using an inhumane forced sweep marching. Any soldier who tried to avoid this forced march was shot.

Mines and traps killed many, but not all the Chinese.

America, with (IMO) stronger human sentimentality and sensisitivities, would have considered this barbaric, giving Vietnamese guerilla fighters to replant mines or reset traps.

EDIT: Some other sites suggested that this war was also a challenge to the Soviet Union who had previously claimed it would defend its Vietnamese ally in a war. It turns out those promises were hollow.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]

Originally posted by Nox
Like America.

I highly doubt that a large scale war would occur when Chiwan is at the peak of prosperity. I will agree that when Chiwan's socio-economic structure starts crumbling... that is when we'll have to worry.

Hmm...there is a little difference. If US is similar to the country I talk about it would attack Canada, Mexico and occupy their lands as its own already.

I think here is our major difference: you hope to have a democratic "Chiwan" in the future, while I hope to have a democratic China and a democratic Taiwan in the future.


[edit on 5-12-2004 by twchang]

many Vietnamese was trained in China in 1960s.
that made the war real hard, but quickly we swipt nearby their capital.
there are many reasons we did not go further. I think it came from the pressure of Soviet Union (personally opinion).

Originally posted by proteinx
Hey, tell a little history by the way:
Thatcher told Deng Xiaoping in 1984: China cannot take hongkong back, that will be disaster for hongkong and China.

Wow, what revisionist historical ChiCom propaganda manual did that one come out of? Sounds to me the writer of the book must have been chasing the dragon no?

there are two taiwanese showing around here basically.

One is complete funny and igonrant,
the other is complete naive and consider "liberty" and "freedom" is the bible.

that is damn cold truth. what else can we do.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by proteinx
Hey, tell a little history by the way:
Thatcher told Deng Xiaoping in 1984: China cannot take hongkong back, that will be disaster for hongkong and China.

Wow, what revisionist historical ChiCom propaganda manual did that one come out of? Sounds to me the writer of the book must have been chasing the dragon no?

www.csis.org...
then you know her fall infront of People's Hall is not something that I imaged.

this is one link i found, I saw the video a while ago, I will try to get for you.