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Originally posted by proteinx
that is the way you guys are thinking:
comparing a game with a possible breakup of a nation??????
I am asking everybody in this forum, how many agree with you ??
China has no Bluewater Navy.
China's Airforce is outdated.
China's missile capabilities are questionable.
China's land forces are outdated.
China has a huge infantry, which has to be equipped, trained, fed, etc.
China has no expeditionary capability.
Technologically, China is 15-20 years behind the west wrt military.
proteinx,
Originally posted by proteinx
light up your brain, man!! did you drink too much today?
Originally posted by engineer
Originally posted by twchang
BTW, it is probably not noly 600 missiles now. It is more likely 800 and still increasing probably.
twchang, you are quite right about the numbers.
China will not make any moves on Taiwan until after the 2008 Olympics, as that's China's showcase event. They will not risk a boycott.
Another thing is that China cannot just destroy Taiwan. China wants Taiwan intact. Destroying Taiwan serves no purpose, and would completely isolate China from the rest of the world.
China's massive arms buildups are not going unnoticed in the west. The almost frantic pace in construction of new SSK's and J-10/J-11/SU-30MKK's indicate China's intent to control the strait so that an amphibious force can go unchallenged. They also understand the absolute need to gain air superiority over both the strait and the island.
China also has other problems she must address before she can get adventurous with Taiwan. There is a brewing problem on the Korean peninsula, and Beijing does not trust Kim one bit. There are already over 100,000 refugees in the border area, and a nuclear exchange on the peninsula would be a disaster for China. Radiation knows no borders, and the refugee problem would increase 10 fold almost overnight.
Last year China moved 150,000 troops to the border, and moved the national police back. Also, in the last two years, over 130 top North Korean generals have defected to China. Some of these generals are in command of Chinese forces on the border. It's obvious that China is setting up a buffer zone, and possibly preparing to stage a military coup to rid themselves of the growing problem caused by an unstable and unpopular government on their border.
Then there's the Spratlys and the Andamans. China is not without her distractions.
Also, people should not underestimate Japan's intent or capabilities. There is much popular support for Japan to build an offensive missile capability, and their Navy is one of the best in the world. And there is such a thing as mutual defence agreements, that Japan and the US will not ignore.
The strategic balance in the Asia-Pacific region is changing, and strategic alliances are shifting with it. Hopefully a blowup can be avoided.
Originally posted by engineer
proteinx,
Originally posted by proteinx
light up your brain, man!! did you drink too much today?
You underestimate the political significance of the games in Beijing, and the embarassment a boycott would cause.
Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.
Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.
Originally posted by engineer
Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.
You are completely misrepresenting my post. I have serious doubts whether I can explain it to you, but I will give one last effort, then I give up.
CHINA WILL NOT INVADE TAIWAN BEFORE 2008.
Did you get that? I said China will not invade. They have too much to lose.
Now, if Taiwan was to do something stupid, and give China an excuse, then yes, China would certainly respond. But in the absense of any overt and stupid moves by Taiwan, CHINA WILL NOT INVADE BEFORE 2008!
How hard is that to understand????
Originally posted by COWlan
1)We get arrested for saying some government official is stupid? I have said it in front of a police and they did nothing.
2)Block google? I use google everyday my freaking god
3)Take away your home? where are your facts? My cousin live in the place where they will build the Olympic village, they built many MANY condominiums else where and gave them a house to them as compensation. Don't talk about China if you don't know it ok?
4)Liberating? Taiwan IS CHINA!! It can never be changed. I bet millions of you have relatives in China. I have like ten Taiwan friends. They don't like Chenshuibian. they said Chenshuibian=War
5)Reunification is only a matter of time believe me. 80% of your rich people have already moved to Shanhai or one of the supercities because they know with Chenshuibian as president, its only a matter of time until war.
6)You technically DOn't EXIST because UN does not acknoledge (forgive me for my spelling)you.
7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.
8)And about the high tech things, all the major companies are transferring to mainland because of fear of war and raising mancosts so 600 dollar computer for 2000 dollars? You crazy? you'll be lucky if the price doesn't drop.
9)Doreamon? DoreaMON? THAT WAS THE FREAKING CARTOON I WATCHED WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!! Please, don't be stupid.
10)TAIWAN IS CHINA! WE HAVE EVERYRIGHT TO BUY HOUSES AND LIVE IN TAIWAN OK?????
Originally posted by theguyver
1) I doubt that, I lived in China (Shanghai, visited Shenzhen and GuangZhou for business) for 1 year.
Originally posted by theguyver
4) Taiwan is Taiwan. I am not going to argue this point. It's all perception. I don't like Chen either, but I don't like China even more. Which is the lesser of two evils? It's like picking a root canal or a proctology exam.
Originally posted by theguyver
5) They travel back and forth to China and Taiwan. Read my post about Taiwanese companies MOVING to china. Taiwan still receives ALL THE ORDERS, THE MONEY, and wires the salaries, overhead, expenses to China to cover the factory over there. THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.
Originally posted by theguyver
6) Of course the UN doesn't recognize us. You hold the rest of the world hostage by threatening to take away their businesses if they do not comply. Who would dare recognize Taiwan. That's like Me telling you to recognize Taiwan when I have a .50 caliber desert eagle pointed at your balls. Once again, you hold the world hostage with their businesses so they HAVE TO AGREE with you. Me, nah. No one-China. Taiwan is independent. But.... If China changes for the better, reunification would not be so bad. I'm not Totally against it.
Originally posted by theguyver
7) The missles were there before the arms deals. We HAVE to buy them to defend against your missles. Don't you get it??? Jesus. Why do you buy car insurance? TO INSURE that you are covered in the event of an accident. If there were NO accidents, you wouldn't need to buy insurance.
Originally posted by theguyver
8) READ MY POSTS. DELL AND HP order parts from the HEADQUARTERS IN TAIWAN (Do you understand this or am I going to fast?). The HEADQUARTERS in Taiwan receives the order and the Wired money. They CALL their executives in China and say OKAY, Start manufacturing. Boom Bam, computer products are shipped to Dell and HP. The MONEY IS STILL IN TAIWAN (Remeber, the money was wired to the Taiwan HQ?) The Taiwan HQ then wires EXPENSE MONEY (Employee salary, factory overhead, expenses, Dinner and Sex with Shanghai girls) over to their BRANCH in China. MOST OF THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN. ONLY THE CHEAP LABOR is used in China. Let me sum this up: MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.
Originally posted by theguyver
9) LUCK YOU! You got to watch Doraemon before the government banned it! Well, try to find the program now. Good luck =) Just like you might have been able to watch the First few episodes of F4's Meteor garden before it was banned. Doesn't mean that it was not banned if you watched it at one point in time.
Originally posted by theguyver
10) No you don't. In Fact you need a VISA to get into Taiwan =) You have no right to buy a home here. Taiwan only allows a certain number of "tourists" from China every year. So no, you cannot buy a home in Taiwan, nor can you visit without a VISA. I guess you could try swimming over. It's not that far. ^^
Originally posted by theguyver
Once again, I lived in China for 1 year so don't tell me that I don't know anything about it. In fact one of my favorite places in Ming-Nan because I can speak Taiwanese to them and they freaking understand me. They curse like us too! What a blast.
Originally posted by astral_ice
Okay first off for those of you who are telling us to give back what we took from the Indians.
A: you weren't there at the time so shut up!
B: Maybe we should tell the british to leave so the french can have england back or maybe we should remove the jews from Israel part and parcel, do you see where I am going with this what you are saying is stupid and irrelevant, and for you chicoms out there I am sorry we saved you and the french in world war 2!
Other than that there is no question that China is not only capable of invading taiwan but the political climate is such that it is highly likelly due to the Us' ongoing distraction in the so-called war on freedom (whoops terror)
I base my opinion of the climate and likelihood off something most of you do not have, my best friend has been there for the last 9 months teaching English. He equates the general climate in Taiwan right now to an entire nation that knows it is under the gun. As for those of you who say china doesn't have the amphib capability, what are you talking about this is the pla they will use rowboats if they have to!
Will it be expensive manpower wise? Absolutelly but remember korea where a full million troops poored over the border! Also remember the Chinese government HAS ABSOLUTELLY NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE!!!
As gattaca pointed out most of our allies would not help us if we chose to intercede, but that is not the point conflicts generate money and destabilize otherwise fairly prosperous nations, that is the real reason for war.
As far as Taiwan not having declared it's independence.... haha the chicoms can rationalize all they want to but everyone knows since day 1 of taiwan they have been trying to get recognition as a sovereign nation with the UN but the security council has voted it down to avoid the inevitable china pouting by bombing taiwan flat and pushing into SE asia in an international temper tantrum.
Originally posted by Nox
Proteinx,
I don't know why you're implying that all Taiwanese are effeminate. In my
Originally posted by Nox
You have to consider the amount of western philosophies they've been saturated with. China and Taiwan's brainwashing (yes, I think both countries have been subject to brainwashing, just like most developed countries in the world) makes them currently almost incompatible in terms of philosophies and idealogies.
....
I think it's very sad that many Taiwanese would sooner unify with Japan than China. They claim that Taiwanese culture has much closer ties with Japan (because of Japanese occupation during WW2, not to mention many of the women were impregnated by the Japanese during the occupation ).