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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by proteinx
that is the way you guys are thinking:

comparing a game with a possible breakup of a nation??????
I am asking everybody in this forum, how many agree with you ??


It's not just a game, what will happen if the world see China as the Madman with a big gun?! This will be extremely bad for our economy


China has no Bluewater Navy.
China's Airforce is outdated.
China's missile capabilities are questionable.
China's land forces are outdated.
China has a huge infantry, which has to be equipped, trained, fed, etc.
China has no expeditionary capability.

Technologically, China is 15-20 years behind the west wrt military.


This scenario is changing, as you can see
I don't think it's so many years behind the west (excluding the US)

[edit on 4-12-2004 by poirot]




posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by proteinx

light up your brain, man!! did you drink too much today?
proteinx,
You underestimate the political significance of the games in Beijing, and the embarassment a boycott would cause.

Please don't try to reduce every discussion to a nuclear exchange. It serves no useful purpose, it's just nationalistic sabre rattling. I appreciate that you love your country, most people do. I have nothing against China. I am just pointing out some geopolitical considerations for people here to ponder. If you can offer something to advance the discussion, please do.

As to personal attacks, please refrain from them regarding me. I have had nothing to drink today, and have no need to "light up my brain".



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by engineer

Originally posted by twchang
BTW, it is probably not noly 600 missiles now. It is more likely 800 and still increasing probably.

twchang, you are quite right about the numbers.

China will not make any moves on Taiwan until after the 2008 Olympics, as that's China's showcase event. They will not risk a boycott.

Another thing is that China cannot just destroy Taiwan. China wants Taiwan intact. Destroying Taiwan serves no purpose, and would completely isolate China from the rest of the world.

China's massive arms buildups are not going unnoticed in the west. The almost frantic pace in construction of new SSK's and J-10/J-11/SU-30MKK's indicate China's intent to control the strait so that an amphibious force can go unchallenged. They also understand the absolute need to gain air superiority over both the strait and the island.

China also has other problems she must address before she can get adventurous with Taiwan. There is a brewing problem on the Korean peninsula, and Beijing does not trust Kim one bit. There are already over 100,000 refugees in the border area, and a nuclear exchange on the peninsula would be a disaster for China. Radiation knows no borders, and the refugee problem would increase 10 fold almost overnight.

Last year China moved 150,000 troops to the border, and moved the national police back. Also, in the last two years, over 130 top North Korean generals have defected to China. Some of these generals are in command of Chinese forces on the border. It's obvious that China is setting up a buffer zone, and possibly preparing to stage a military coup to rid themselves of the growing problem caused by an unstable and unpopular government on their border.

Then there's the Spratlys and the Andamans. China is not without her distractions.

Also, people should not underestimate Japan's intent or capabilities. There is much popular support for Japan to build an offensive missile capability, and their Navy is one of the best in the world. And there is such a thing as mutual defence agreements, that Japan and the US will not ignore.

The strategic balance in the Asia-Pacific region is changing, and strategic alliances are shifting with it. Hopefully a blowup can be avoided.



Agreed. Peace is always better than chaos. But remember, War must happen before peace.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by engineer

Originally posted by proteinx

light up your brain, man!! did you drink too much today?
proteinx,
You underestimate the political significance of the games in Beijing, and the embarassment a boycott would cause.



again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.
sorry for you , you can talk about anything else........... but you just have no idea about Chinese. I can tell you one thing: if taiwan get seperated, CCP cannot stand one hour.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.


Yes it is very important. Perhaps the most. You see the ChiCom leadership is oh so anxious to say "look we have arrived" case in point. look at all the articles about how Bejing converted almost all the public toilets to the flush type vs. the open pit.

Never underestimate national pride esp when money is concerned. China will loose money on the outright venture, but hopes to gain more on the world stage. THAT is why engineer is correct. You will not put your huge budget surplus at risk by pissing off the US. What / where would you see all of your goods and services? IF your country is so high and mighty, why can't the middle kingdom just take a chill pill and save the empty rhetoric and bluster for a bad B grade movie??



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.

You are completely misrepresenting my post. I have serious doubts whether I can explain it to you, but I will give one last effort, then I give up.

CHINA WILL NOT INVADE TAIWAN BEFORE 2008.

Did you get that? I said China will not invade. They have too much to lose.

Now, if Taiwan was to do something stupid, and give China an excuse, then yes, China would certainly respond. But in the absense of any overt and stupid moves by Taiwan, CHINA WILL NOT INVADE BEFORE 2008!

How hard is that to understand????



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by engineer

Originally posted by proteinx
again, you still mean a game is more important for beijing than unity of a nation.

You are completely misrepresenting my post. I have serious doubts whether I can explain it to you, but I will give one last effort, then I give up.

CHINA WILL NOT INVADE TAIWAN BEFORE 2008.

Did you get that? I said China will not invade. They have too much to lose.

Now, if Taiwan was to do something stupid, and give China an excuse, then yes, China would certainly respond. But in the absense of any overt and stupid moves by Taiwan, CHINA WILL NOT INVADE BEFORE 2008!

How hard is that to understand????


It is not me, it is you dont get the point.

Mainland has no intention to take taiwan back by force at all if Taiwan donot do anything stupid. The whole point is here, taiwan is going to do something very stupid. if so, there is nothing left to consider the game.

say, your want to held a party tonight and 4:00PM you girl friend get raped. what are you going to do? still held the party as plan until it finish?



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by COWlan
1)We get arrested for saying some government official is stupid? I have said it in front of a police and they did nothing.

2)Block google? I use google everyday my freaking god

3)Take away your home? where are your facts? My cousin live in the place where they will build the Olympic village, they built many MANY condominiums else where and gave them a house to them as compensation. Don't talk about China if you don't know it ok?

4)Liberating? Taiwan IS CHINA!! It can never be changed. I bet millions of you have relatives in China. I have like ten Taiwan friends. They don't like Chenshuibian. they said Chenshuibian=War

5)Reunification is only a matter of time believe me. 80% of your rich people have already moved to Shanhai or one of the supercities because they know with Chenshuibian as president, its only a matter of time until war.

6)You technically DOn't EXIST because UN does not acknoledge (forgive me for my spelling)you.

7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.

8)And about the high tech things, all the major companies are transferring to mainland because of fear of war and raising mancosts so 600 dollar computer for 2000 dollars? You crazy? you'll be lucky if the price doesn't drop.

9)Doreamon? DoreaMON? THAT WAS THE FREAKING CARTOON I WATCHED WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!! Please, don't be stupid.

10)TAIWAN IS CHINA! WE HAVE EVERYRIGHT TO BUY HOUSES AND LIVE IN TAIWAN OK?????



1) I doubt that, I lived in China (Shanghai, visited Shenzhen and GuangZhou for business) for 1 year.

2) Yes, google.com was blocked when I was living in China. So are the Washington post, cnn, etc..... Once again, I lived in China so your point is Nil.

3) They were forced to MOVE. Yeah, they got choices for Compensation or a relocated home but they were STILL FORCED TO MOVE. F O R C E D TO M O V E. Get it? I'm not talking about compensation, nice sparkling relocated homes. I'm talking about people being forced to move from where they live for maybe 10-20 years. Oh, and I'm sure it's a one day moving job right? Easy.

4) Taiwan is Taiwan. I am not going to argue this point. It's all perception. I don't like Chen either, but I don't like China even more. Which is the lesser of two evils? It's like picking a root canal or a proctology exam.

5) They travel back and forth to China and Taiwan. Read my post about Taiwanese companies MOVING to china. Taiwan still receives ALL THE ORDERS, THE MONEY, and wires the salaries, overhead, expenses to China to cover the factory over there. THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.

6) Of course the UN doesn't recognize us. You hold the rest of the world hostage by threatening to take away their businesses if they do not comply. Who would dare recognize Taiwan. That's like Me telling you to recognize Taiwan when I have a .50 caliber desert eagle pointed at your balls. Once again, you hold the world hostage with their businesses so they HAVE TO AGREE with you. Me, nah. No one-China. Taiwan is independent. But.... If China changes for the better, reunification would not be so bad. I'm not Totally against it.

7) The missles were there before the arms deals. We HAVE to buy them to defend against your missles. Don't you get it??? Jesus. Why do you buy car insurance? TO INSURE that you are covered in the event of an accident. If there were NO accidents, you wouldn't need to buy insurance.

8) READ MY POSTS. DELL AND HP order parts from the HEADQUARTERS IN TAIWAN (Do you understand this or am I going to fast?). The HEADQUARTERS in Taiwan receives the order and the Wired money. They CALL their executives in China and say OKAY, Start manufacturing. Boom Bam, computer products are shipped to Dell and HP. The MONEY IS STILL IN TAIWAN (Remeber, the money was wired to the Taiwan HQ?) The Taiwan HQ then wires EXPENSE MONEY (Employee salary, factory overhead, expenses, Dinner and Sex with Shanghai girls) over to their BRANCH in China. MOST OF THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN. ONLY THE CHEAP LABOR is used in China. Let me sum this up: MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.

9) LUCK YOU! You got to watch Doraemon before the government banned it! Well, try to find the program now. Good luck =) Just like you might have been able to watch the First few episodes of F4's Meteor garden before it was banned. Doesn't mean that it was not banned if you watched it at one point in time.

10) No you don't. In Fact you need a VISA to get into Taiwan =) You have no right to buy a home here. Taiwan only allows a certain number of "tourists" from China every year. So no, you cannot buy a home in Taiwan, nor can you visit without a VISA. I guess you could try swimming over. It's not that far. ^^

Once again, I lived in China for 1 year so don't tell me that I don't know anything about it. In fact one of my favorite places in Ming-Nan because I can speak Taiwanese to them and they freaking understand me. They curse like us too! What a blast.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by theguyver


1) I doubt that, I lived in China (Shanghai, visited Shenzhen and GuangZhou for business) for 1 year.


then you assume you know everything about China? that is how peolpe from island used to think--------what a freak.


Originally posted by theguyver

4) Taiwan is Taiwan. I am not going to argue this point. It's all perception. I don't like Chen either, but I don't like China even more. Which is the lesser of two evils? It's like picking a root canal or a proctology exam.


power is power, if you donot get power, then shut your mouth. The world is ruled by power not by perception, get it?


Originally posted by theguyver
5) They travel back and forth to China and Taiwan. Read my post about Taiwanese companies MOVING to china. Taiwan still receives ALL THE ORDERS, THE MONEY, and wires the salaries, overhead, expenses to China to cover the factory over there. THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.

I start to suspect you do business or not, check why Taiwan make huge profit from the business with mainland. And you do think China manland can allow that continue happen even if Taiwan want to be anti-China?


Originally posted by theguyver
6) Of course the UN doesn't recognize us. You hold the rest of the world hostage by threatening to take away their businesses if they do not comply. Who would dare recognize Taiwan. That's like Me telling you to recognize Taiwan when I have a .50 caliber desert eagle pointed at your balls. Once again, you hold the world hostage with their businesses so they HAVE TO AGREE with you. Me, nah. No one-China. Taiwan is independent. But.... If China changes for the better, reunification would not be so bad. I'm not Totally against it.

wow, wow, we hold the rest of world? and all the world is helding Chinese LP? ahaha..


it is not because we hold the rest of world, it is because nobody in this world like turmoil or war happening in east asia except some ugly politicians in taiwan and stupid real brain washed people in that island.
nobody stupid enough like you, that is the main point.



Originally posted by theguyver
7) The missles were there before the arms deals. We HAVE to buy them to defend against your missles. Don't you get it??? Jesus. Why do you buy car insurance? TO INSURE that you are covered in the event of an accident. If there were NO accidents, you wouldn't need to buy insurance.

what outdated weapons you have to buy forced by your so called "protector", and how much do you think you really can stop us? even your generals admit taiwan can resist no more than few days. you get it? like ant want to buy insurance to stop elephant? I think ant has bigger brain than you do, and please read your bible first before you call jesus. cause jesus does not like to be called by an idiot!!!


Originally posted by theguyver

8) READ MY POSTS. DELL AND HP order parts from the HEADQUARTERS IN TAIWAN (Do you understand this or am I going to fast?). The HEADQUARTERS in Taiwan receives the order and the Wired money. They CALL their executives in China and say OKAY, Start manufacturing. Boom Bam, computer products are shipped to Dell and HP. The MONEY IS STILL IN TAIWAN (Remeber, the money was wired to the Taiwan HQ?) The Taiwan HQ then wires EXPENSE MONEY (Employee salary, factory overhead, expenses, Dinner and Sex with Shanghai girls) over to their BRANCH in China. MOST OF THE MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN. ONLY THE CHEAP LABOR is used in China. Let me sum this up: MONEY STILL STAYS IN TAIWAN.



Again I really doubt how much business you do, you might be just hired by some company doing low level jobs in China, cause you have no idea what the trend it, have you ever heard cisco? oracle? microsoft? ibm? do you know where are their second largest R&D center iare located exctpt north america?Even HP president was disgusted by your so called president and very near future both DELL and HP is going to transfer their headquater.
What a freak we meet here, you have to know that many of people in this website stayed in both USA or China for a quite long time and they know much better than you about international business!!!! read lastest business week, or CNN exporting america, economists, do some research what role of Chinese economy today before you yell "cheap labor".
dump a*s*s
. Besides, do you have any idea taiwan get 60 billion dollars profit from mainland every year just because chinese government try to gain your "willing" to reunit. now you really think China is dump ass to lick your LP? you get a pig brain? When China shut the business with taiwan and really make final judgement day true, you will just become a gay hooker in south east asia to make a living.


Originally posted by theguyver

9) LUCK YOU! You got to watch Doraemon before the government banned it! Well, try to find the program now. Good luck =) Just like you might have been able to watch the First few episodes of F4's Meteor garden before it was banned. Doesn't mean that it was not banned if you watched it at one point in time.

sorry, man, F4 was banned just because your taiwanese cannot provide a real man and verybody talks like girly man, ahah... your teeangers physical condition is ranked much worse than Chinese mainland teeangers today. Most important, can you find a real "man" in your island? no, you speak and talk just like girly man, most of you.


Originally posted by theguyver

10) No you don't. In Fact you need a VISA to get into Taiwan =) You have no right to buy a home here. Taiwan only allows a certain number of "tourists" from China every year. So no, you cannot buy a home in Taiwan, nor can you visit without a VISA. I guess you could try swimming over. It's not that far. ^^

sorry, man, you wrong again, we just bomb that island into a wasteland as military base facility for next 20 years. so , you can just try to swim to Japan call your second dady---------and they can do nothign about it. happier?


Originally posted by theguyver
Once again, I lived in China for 1 year so don't tell me that I don't know anything about it. In fact one of my favorite places in Ming-Nan because I can speak Taiwanese to them and they freaking understand me. They curse like us too! What a blast.


Once again, an arrogant and stupid dump a*s*s think he knows everything about Chinese. What do you know? you live in an island too long. ---frog in the well, you better freak yourself.








[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]


Nox

posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 04:19 AM
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I find this discussion rather humorous.
Let me paint my own version of this discussion:

Mainlander: You stupid Taiwanese! You'll be re-united with us soon enough!
Taiwanese: Fat chance, you brainwashed commie!
Mainlander: Shut up! We hold more power!
Taiwanese: You won't dare use it! You'll antagonize the rest of the world!
Mainlander: You're economy is weakening!
Taiwanese: We'll OWN you soon enough! You have nothing but slave labor!
Mainlander: Homos!
Taiwanese: Roaches!
*** Much later ***
Mainlander: What's so wrong about re-uniting with us?! We love you! You're our Chinese brothers! We just want to subject you to the same gov't you've been brainwashed to hate!
Taiwanese: What's so wrong about leaving us alone?! We just want to see the Chinese suffer and collapse to prove our superiority in economy and politics!



Yeah, right... We'll be re-united soon enough.


Hopefully, things cool down between the two countries.

Oh, and theguyver, the fact that you've lived in Shanghai for 1 year doesn't show much since you still think China is full of slave labor. The truth is, many countries have what you'd call "slave labor". What differentiates China is that they also have a middle class. They have a growing number of technical experts as well as "wage slaves", which are inevitable in highly populated countries anyway.

Try fitting at least half a billion people on Taiwan, and see for yourself how well the economy holds out without any slave labor.

Hopefully the dialects weren't too much of a difficulty for you. Speaking in "non-Taiwanese" dialects seems to annoy you. I'm sure you must have been dying living in Shanghai, where a vast majority speak Shanghainese (which sounds almost nothing like Mandarin). Alla zi zhang hei nin. Nong wei bu wei gan zhang hei wo?

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]


Nox

posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 04:47 AM
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Proteinx,
I don't know why you're implying that all Taiwanese are effeminate. In my opinion, the masculinity of male populations of Taiwan and China can't be compared because China doesn't tolerate homosexuality. Besides that, it's childish mudslinging like that which keeps the two countries from uniting.

You have to consider the amount of western philosophies they've been saturated with. China and Taiwan's brainwashing (yes, I think both countries have been subject to brainwashing, just like most developed countries in the world) makes them currently almost incompatible in terms of philosophies and idealogies.

Most of my Taiwanese friends STILL tell me horror stories that their parents or grandparents had to face during the Cultural Revolution before they fled to Taiwan. It suggests a lot of what's being taught in Taiwanese history classes.

I think it's very sad that many Taiwanese would sooner unify with Japan than China. They claim that Taiwanese culture has much closer ties with Japan (because of Japanese occupation during WW2, not to mention many of the women were impregnated by the Japanese during the occupation
).



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 07:10 AM
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Hindi chini bhai-bhai??anybody??



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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Okay first off for those of you who are telling us to give back what we took from the Indians.
A: you weren't there at the time so shut up!
B: Maybe we should tell the british to leave so the french can have england back or maybe we should remove the jews from Israel part and parcel, do you see where I am going with this what you are saying is stupid and irrelevant, and for you chicoms out there I am sorry we saved you and the french in world war 2!

Other than that there is no question that China is not only capable of invading taiwan but the political climate is such that it is highly likelly due to the Us' ongoing distraction in the so-called war on freedom (whoops terror)
I base my opinion of the climate and likelihood off something most of you do not have, my best friend has been there for the last 9 months teaching English. He equates the general climate in Taiwan right now to an entire nation that knows it is under the gun. As for those of you who say china doesn't have the amphib capability, what are you talking about this is the pla they will use rowboats if they have to!

Will it be expensive manpower wise? Absolutelly but remember korea where a full million troops poored over the border! Also remember the Chinese government HAS ABSOLUTELLY NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE!!!

As gattaca pointed out most of our allies would not help us if we chose to intercede, but that is not the point conflicts generate money and destabilize otherwise fairly prosperous nations, that is the real reason for war.

As far as Taiwan not having declared it's independence.... haha the chicoms can rationalize all they want to but everyone knows since day 1 of taiwan they have been trying to get recognition as a sovereign nation with the UN but the security council has voted it down to avoid the inevitable china pouting by bombing taiwan flat and pushing into SE asia in an international temper tantrum.


Nox

posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by astral_ice
Okay first off for those of you who are telling us to give back what we took from the Indians.
A: you weren't there at the time so shut up!
B: Maybe we should tell the british to leave so the french can have england back or maybe we should remove the jews from Israel part and parcel, do you see where I am going with this what you are saying is stupid and irrelevant, and for you chicoms out there I am sorry we saved you and the french in world war 2!

The US had no choice. If we were to have let the Germans and Japanese go on without intervening, given time, they would have eventually overpowered America.

Other than that, I agree. Speaking of history is irrelevant. We conquered America. That's all there is to it.



Other than that there is no question that China is not only capable of invading taiwan but the political climate is such that it is highly likelly due to the Us' ongoing distraction in the so-called war on freedom (whoops terror)
I base my opinion of the climate and likelihood off something most of you do not have, my best friend has been there for the last 9 months teaching English. He equates the general climate in Taiwan right now to an entire nation that knows it is under the gun. As for those of you who say china doesn't have the amphib capability, what are you talking about this is the pla they will use rowboats if they have to!

The climate is this way because of the media. Constant use of demagogic speeches and emotional words like "terror", "terrorists", "murder", "evil"... Is it really no wonder that the entire Taiwanese population is so riled up?

The fact that China is much larger and more intimidating than Iraq might also be a factor.

The reference to rowboats was hilarious btw. I can picture Chinese invading Taiwanese shores with their junk boats already.

Just toss a match at them for crying out loud.


From what I know, places I've been to in China don't often think of any impending war with Taiwan. I don't know about the rural areas, but this holds true for heavily populated cities I've been to.



Will it be expensive manpower wise? Absolutelly but remember korea where a full million troops poored over the border! Also remember the Chinese government HAS ABSOLUTELLY NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE!!!

Which is why I see the PLA killing civilians daily.
Seriously though, handling a country with 1.3 billion people (most of which belong to the poor lower class) is harder than it looks.

Every gov't has its share of corrupt politicians. It just so happens that traditional sensitivities starting sinking into the drain as populations increase.



As gattaca pointed out most of our allies would not help us if we chose to intercede, but that is not the point conflicts generate money and destabilize otherwise fairly prosperous nations, that is the real reason for war.

As far as Taiwan not having declared it's independence.... haha the chicoms can rationalize all they want to but everyone knows since day 1 of taiwan they have been trying to get recognition as a sovereign nation with the UN but the security council has voted it down to avoid the inevitable china pouting by bombing taiwan flat and pushing into SE asia in an international temper tantrum.


Believe me, I support Taiwanese independence if it could bring the two countries closer together. From what I see now, either way, a country will likely be offended. The UN currently fears offending China more than it does so Taiwan.

Status quo is good, and safe for now.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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good grace, finally an american who knows about the real situation. Status quo is indeed what we need in the taiwan straight. bravo nox!



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:55 AM
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the US needs china, not vice versa... mainly becasue majority of toys and many everyday items sold in the US are made in china showihng how much the US depends upon china, if china lose the Us as a huge buyer, then yes the loss will be great, however the US is not the only people china sells to



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Nox
Proteinx,
I don't know why you're implying that all Taiwanese are effeminate. In my


no, never, I never said that.
I say we transmit all chinese in that island back to mainland, bomb the left non-chinese and make that island pure military base.

somepeple over there dnot think they are chinese at all, what bothter to do that for us?

[edit on 5-12-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Speaking on behalf of the average US citizen, we are willing to pay 5 dollars more for tires and do without pokemon party hats while we beat china to a bloody pulp if they lift a finger towards taiwan, we might need them but the american public will not allow the US to sell taiwan down the river in the name of security and cheap party favors!!! And btw this was not my opinion before I started reading the epic that is this post. About halfway through when I started hearing about defective genetics and nuclear strikes because a country that has been a nation for as long as the current chinese regime wants to be a RECOGNIZED independent nation I changed my mind.
China one last time YOU MIGHT TAKE TAIPEI BUT WE WILL BURN BEIJING AND TURN YOUR DAM INTO A PILE OF RUBLLE THEN WE'LL GET DOWN TO SOME SERIOUS DESTRUCTION

I mean seriously yeah America has screwed up majorly recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, and by trusting Saudi Arabia or not slapping down OPEC the second it started. You want more examples if we would have sent ambassadors to Ho chi Minh we wouldn't have had to fire a shot and had a democratic ally instead of the mess we have now.
America is not perfect and if we don't change soon we will be a third world nation, those of us who are realistic know it too. And as far as war goes on behalf of all smart and informed americans I have this to say to The Chinese people.

Please let cooller heads prevail, there is no glory in war. And although America will fight if you push us China. we would rather be friends and see your PEOPLE prosper.

I don't know the real problem to me seems to be that all of the chicom supporters more or less support a theory that any non ethnically pure chinese is a lesser being, and it is what will bring the US off of the bench. You make us supposedly Eurocentric white guys look like mild mannerred and rational people. We have a word for it called Xenophobia let it go China you can't go back to being the Middle Kingdom, we aren't going to go away and we aren't going to let you pick on countrys that you lost so long ago it doesn't matter!


Nox

posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 12:34 PM
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Astral_Ice, you can cut the drama.

Since when could America "sell" Taiwan to China? America doesn't own Taiwan either.

Your statement about a xenophobic or racist China is a blanket statement if I ever saw one. Clearly you know very little about China. China has as many xenophobes or racists as any other country. I could use the same flawed logic you did by saying that America is full of nothing but racists and xenophobes when clearly some of the most wonderful and altruistic people in the world live here. Even many of those "racists" are mostly misunderstood, and often time disciminated against themselves.

Someone suggested the Korea could be reunited.

I don't believe it, but if someone could even suggest that, I'm sure peaceful resolutions between China and Taiwan are possible.

I understand the Chinese gov't is marketing this as an issue of pride, where a few indignant children simply refuse to be acknowledged by their family name. They fail to make any reconciliation to the Taiwanese for such a proposed reunification.
I understand that the Taiwanese are using propaganda in kind against the Chinese, failing to point out how difficult it had been to unite the largest nation in the world that had recently been raped and pillaged, and overpopulated by starving families. Horror stories under such conditions are LIKELY to occur.

Hopefully people will decide to open their eyes and look and think for themselves, remaining skeptical, before taking in everything their media feeds them.

Hopefully then, Taiwanese will stop thinking that all chinese are wage slaves living under a ressurected Chairman Mao's rule, and the Chinese will stop viewing the Taiwanese as spoiled children but rather as real people with real fears who haven't been subjugated to the same poverty and overpopulation problem but share the same history of discrimination, Japanese imperialism, and discrimination.

I think the situation should be given time to cool down. With time, a gradual cultural takeover of China through America's superior media and tech influence is inevitable. By then, the cultural differences between the two countries might not be as great.

Hopefully, by then, they'll still consider at least becoming trusting allies.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Nox]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nox
You have to consider the amount of western philosophies they've been saturated with. China and Taiwan's brainwashing (yes, I think both countries have been subject to brainwashing, just like most developed countries in the world) makes them currently almost incompatible in terms of philosophies and idealogies.

....

I think it's very sad that many Taiwanese would sooner unify with Japan than China. They claim that Taiwanese culture has much closer ties with Japan (because of Japanese occupation during WW2, not to mention many of the women were impregnated by the Japanese during the occupation
).



hmm...just want to point out something:

1. That is correct, in the past, during the Nationalists (KMT) ruling, brainwashing in the education system is there. So people around my age are brainwashed during middle school and high school education. Most of us found out they are brainwashed later because the government allows free flow of information in media and contradicting information comes out. The education system now is more opened, and they are still getting rid of the brainwash materials. Now, from your stand point of view, it will still be brainwashing, since you said it exists in most countries, but it is a lot better than the brainwashing in the past.

2. Different Taiwanese will tell you different historical "horror" stories because their past generations came to Taiwan at different time. Some will mention 228 incidents...etc.

3. Ha...I will say that most Taiwanese don't want to unify with anyone. But right now Japan is more friendly to Taiwan. Japanese occupation starts long before WW2. It starts near the end of Ching Dynasty. Taiwan's culture are heavily influenced by both Chinese and Japanese culture. For example, in terms of martial arts, TaiChi and Kendo are both popular. The same thing exists in other areas such as sports, architectures, philosophies...etc. And yea, western culture is there as well. But I would say western culture are probably pretty wide spread in the world now. And more recently Taiwan is influenced by Korean pop cultures...Personally I think learning the good sides of other cultures is always good.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by twchang]



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