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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Also,Taiwan has a failed democracy,look at the amount of scandals going around,look at the people in the news,politicians punching the # out of each other,and all that,do you see that happening in China?There you go.


hahaha...I don't think it is that bad.

Scandals are proofs that democracy is still there. If the politicians really did some bad things and are proven after some legal processes, then I am sure he/she will get less support. Hopefully one day the election process will weed out the bad ones...hahaha.

Anyway, the system in Taiwan is far from perfect now. Taiwan just starts the system, and "Rome" is not build in one day.




posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV


The real reason the UK de-colonised its empire was so there were more cricket teams to play. Where would the World Cup be without de-colonisation?


edit: sp

[edit on 2-12-2004 by HowlrunnerIV]


Aahhh...yes the cric world cup!! A real reward of de-colonisation!!

not sarci btw ...



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Also,Taiwan has a failed democracy,look at the amount of scandals going around,look at the people in the news,politicians punching the # out of each other,and all that,do you see that happening in China?There you go.



Well you think China is so pretty , pretty because the scandals there are not widely known to the public , but in the free world we hear the scandals about China's government all the time.

you know you have a saying in China:

Lu fen dan'r, biaomian'r guang



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by proteinx
chang, can you also answer my previous questions:

what are the benifits for Taiwan to get independence. I really want to know
show me the logic please.


I'll tell you what twChang means by freedom in Taiwan:

1) I won't be forced out of my home ("relocated") so the government can build an olympic stadium on top of it.

2) I can say "I hate this president, premier, government, whatever" without going to jail

3) If I am a doctor, I can expose SARS (doing the right thing) without getting thrown in jail

4) I can watch anything on any medium that I want (Internet, Radio, Televison) without it being "blocked" i.e. Google.com and Cnn.com and even DOREAMON the cute little robotic cat cartoon from Japan was blocked in China. Apparently this little robotic cat didn't instill communist values to the chinese children. A ROBOTIC CAT?! How much more non-threatening can that be. Oh, also F4's Meteor garden from Taiwan was banned. Go figure.

5) Police need a warrant to invade my home

6) Innocent until proven guilty in court

7) The government does not take away homes farmers. Actually a whole small town in China was taken away. Sad.

How China views it's "brothers"

1) China claims it hates the Taiwanese government not the people, but when there was a outbreak of SARS in Taiwan, China did not allow the WHO to enter for 2 whole weeks or even longer into Taiwan to help the "NORMAL, NON-GOVERNMENTAL, NON-CHEN-VOTING PEOPLE" who were infected. Brothers you say??? You amuse me.

2) You're pointing 600 missiles at us.

3) You're still pointing 600 missles at us.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:05 AM
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quote: Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Also,Taiwan has a failed democracy,look at the amount of scandals going around,look at the people in the news,politicians punching the out of each other,and all that,do you see that happening in China?There you go.

In China there are no politicians... only your loving communist GODS. They don't have to punch eachother... why??? Because they all have the same common goal. To CONTROL YOU. So why fight? Nothing to disagree about. You can watch this but can't watch that, You can read that but you can't read that, You can pee here and well... you can pee there too. I HAVE been to ShenZhen, and that is one of the BIGGER cities. It's still not very sanitary. The only place in China I can go without cringing is Shanghai and EVEN THEN, I have to go to the "international" buildings to watch international programs on T.V. and the Internet. So much for DirectTV huh?

Oh and how is Taiwan a failed democracy? Politicians always fight. Taiwanese just choose to throw stuff. We have ALL THE SAME freedoms that MOST OF THE world enjoys. Hell, Taiwan is so swell that even Dave and Buster's decided to open up shop in Taiwan, so how is that a failed democracy?

To the people who think that Taiwanese businesses are "moving" to China, do a reality check please. Taiwanese businesses still have their HEADQUARTERS in Taiwan. Let's say, Dell or Hewlett Packard need some parts.... they Order from the HEADQUARTERS in Taiwan. The money is WIRED TO TAIWAN. Then, the companies in Taiwan "allocate" just enough money to cover: Factory workers expenses (Not very much for slave labor in China), Executive Salaries (Quite a bit for Taiwanese who have to move to China), and other expenses and overhead. They then wire that money over to their bank in China. So the MAJORITY of the money still says in Taiwan. Sorry to burst your bubble. That's how Huge American companies are still making so much money even after they "MOVE" to China.

So instead of calling Taiwanese brothers, why not call them Much Wealthier, Cleaner Cousins? That sounds better eh?



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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1)We get arrested for saying some government official is stupid? I have said it in front of a police and they did nothing.

2)Block google? I use google everyday my freaking god

3)Take away your home? where are your facts? My cousin live in the place where they will build the Olympic village, they built many MANY condominiums else where and gave them a house to them as compensation. Don't talk about China if you don't know it ok?

4)Liberating? Taiwan IS CHINA!! It can never be changed. I bet millions of you have relatives in China. I have like ten Taiwan friends. They don't like Chenshuibian. they said Chenshuibian=War

5)Reunification is only a matter of time believe me. 80% of your rich people have already moved to Shanhai or one of the supercities because they know with Chenshuibian as president, its only a matter of time until war.

6)You technically DOn't EXIST because UN does not acknoledge (forgive me for my spelling)you.

7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.

8)And about the high tech things, all the major companies are transferring to mainland because of fear of war and raising mancosts so 600 dollar computer for 2000 dollars? You crazy? you'll be lucky if the price doesn't drop.

9)Doreamon? DoreaMON? THAT WAS THE FREAKING CARTOON I WATCHED WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!! Please, don't be stupid.

10)TAIWAN IS CHINA! WE HAVE EVERYRIGHT TO BUY HOUSES AND LIVE IN TAIWAN OK?????

I have relatives who used to live where the Olumpic Stadium is being constructed. They were not forced out, they were given a choice, a fair payment for their home so they can buy another house somewhere else or a new home constructed by the government just for the relocation. I've been to my relatives house there at least once a year and believe me, they should be happy of getting relocated. They don't have private washrooms and they have to use the public ones, and believe me public ones aren't pretty. The houses there are extremely old, at 70+ years of age and some might extend to as much as 150+ years.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:22 PM
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theguyver:

read my previous posts, please.

nobody saying Chinese in mainland have perfect soceity. No one does, just like your dog fight in your so called congrass and they are showing in CNN as jokes everyday.

The point is:

Is there any indication that current Chinese government will invovle what you are doing after reunite? -------except foreign policy and national security?

All Chinese want is: taiwan, that island cannot be utlized to be against mainland.

so, stop confuse people



[edit on 4-12-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by proteinx
just like your dog fight in your so called congrass and they are showing in CNN as jokes everyday.



Just want to point out the exageration here. I watched CNN almost everyday and they don't show it as jokes everyday.

Also, the politicians don't fight everyday, if that is your impression. Most of the time they just have discussions in meetings.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan

7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.



I must also point out that those 600 missiles are already there before Taiwan trying to get the 600 billion TWD military purchase. The purchase include diesal submarines, P-3C, PAC-3. They are all primary defensive weapons. Even if Taiwan purchase or developed offensive weapons it will be a reactions to China's aggressive purchase of offensive weaponries.

Also, The HARM purchased from US are quite recent, I believe China's ballistic missiles are already there. The HARM are used only for taking out SAM sites and RADAR stations.

BTW, it is probably not noly 600 missiles now. It is more likely 800 and still increasing probably.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by twchang]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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china is just waiting for the right time to take control of their neighbor to the south. It will come..when? your guess is as good as mine but rest assured, you are in good hands with china on the war-path



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by bodebliss

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Also,Taiwan has a failed democracy,look at the amount of scandals going around,look at the people in the news,politicians punching the # out of each other,and all that,do you see that happening in China?There you go.



Well you think China is so pretty , pretty because the scandals there are not widely known to the public , but in the free world we hear the scandals about China's government all the time.

you know you have a saying in China:

Lu fen dan'r, biaomian'r guang


Huh? I am Chinese and I can't understand the phrase you just mentioned. no R ever comes together after dan with an apostrophe.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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The missiles wouldn't be pointing at your face if Chen didn't say he wanted Taiwan to be independant.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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the US needs China a hell lot more than China needs the US. China lends the US billions of dollars through the purchase of US treasury bonds, and the US makes billions of trading with China.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by twchang
I am from Taiwan. Personally, I am very pro-independent, and a lot of people in Taiwan are very pro-independent as well. Currently, people who want to unify with China are the minorities.

The fact is that Taiwan is already an independent country, although it does not enjoy what a fully independent country can have, such as formal diplomatic relationships with other countries, and it is largely due to pressure from China.

Can China Invade Taiwan? Sure they can, but I am not sure if it will be successful, because Taiwan has its own defense forces, and the possible involvement of US and Japan. Others will obviously hold different opinions. That is why Taiwan doesn't declare independence...kind of cowardly, but when people's lives are at stake, Taiwan simply can't rush it I guess.

Anyways, I hope all the people in Taiwan can have the wisdom to eventaully bring Taiwan to formal independence without blood, because China obviously just don't want to let it go. If war is inavoidable, then I will do whatever I can to help defend Taiwan.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by twchang]






Taiwan has its own self-defense forces? Hahaha, the Taiwanese themselves said that if China invades, they'll last but a few days! As for the US, they get WAY TOO MUCH money from China to goto war with China over a tiny island called Taiwan. And Japan, they can barely defend themselves, how can they mingle in the affairs of Taiwan? Japan barely has a military, for their constitution prevents them from having a large military after WWII



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
The missiles wouldn't be pointing at your face if Chen didn't say he wanted Taiwan to be independant.


Hmm...President Chen is pro independent for sure, but I don't know if he actually officially states that.

Anyway, it is not just President Chen who wants independant though...people who vote for him are mostly pro independent as well.

Another thing is that, from Taiwan's point of view, Taiwan is independent, it is just not widely recognize as so.

Oh, and forgot to mention one thing....the missiles build-ups start from ex-President Lee, not President Chen...although you can say that ex-President Lee is also pro independent.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by twchang]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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The bottom line to everything is this:

China has one of the powerful military in the world. The modern military of China matches that of the US, with better weaponry and technology. If you do any kind search at all online, you can see the power of the Chinese military. China is no longer the Red-Russian stepchild, but a nation with much power. China's military no longer depend on overwhelming man power, but the technology as well. Also, not only is China one of the most powerful nations in the world in terms of military, it is also becoming one of the economic giants in the world. People marvel the big cities in the US, such as New York, Los Angeles, however, any big city in the US is nothing compared big cities in China, such as Beijing, Shanghai, Xiamen, etc.

Of course, the lack of democracy is a problelm. But one must admit that it is working! China is becoming more and more powerful as a nation militarily, economically. If China had more democracy, I have to say, China will be much better off, because with more democracy, people can think and act more freely. With more democracy, instead of losing its intellectuals and best minds to such countries such as the US, China can retain these people who will make China a even more powerful country as it is. Also, communism does really affect the everyday people, I mean think about it, what average person goes on the street and denounces the government? People in China are too busy with their jobs and making money and living a good life than to worry about the government. Democracy is not somethng that can happened overnight. The Chinese people have gone through thousands of years of authoritrian rule, from the ancient emperors to the modern day communists, a sudden switch to democracy will only result in chaos and collapse of the nation. Look at what happened in Russia, yes, Russia may be a freer country now, but its crimes and horrilble economy brings much more serious problems for the people than did communism. Also, look at India, after they gained their independence, their population grew exponentially. In a few years, India will have more people than China! Why? Because their "democracy" cannot put an end to people giving birth. The final point is, if the people do not change, there is no use to change the type of government. If the people cannot control and manage themselves, the government must, or else chaos will erupt. For example, here in the US, most people voluntarily obey the traffic lights. However, in China, people only obey the traffic lights because there are cameras at every intersection. EVEN with all these cameras, there are STILL people running lights. Think about it, if the cameras are taken away, what would happen? If one does not have self-control, one must be controled. Democracy in China can only happen slowly (it already is happening, as the new generation leaders take higher positions in the Chinese government).

Yes, the US can invade China, however, I doubt they ever will, because of their close ties with China and how much the US depends on China economically. Even if the US does invade China, their chance of success if next to zero. First of all, if the US invades China, it'll be fighting on home turf. Second, as mentioned before, China has one of the most powerful military in the world. Third, US does have the money to fight China in a war, because China IS the source of a lot of the US's money, and fighting China, such a powerful nation as it is, will take billions of dollars, let alone manpower, machinery, etc. The US simply cannot sustain such a war.

Yes, China can take over Taiwan. Yes, Taiwan has a military, but what is it compared to the Chinese military? Nothing! Not even the US can be sure to win a war against China. The Taiwanese themselves said that if a war breaks out between China and Taiwan, Taiwan will last but a few days! As for the US, as I've mentioned before, the US need China way too much to risk its relationship with Taiwan over China. As for Japan, they can't even defend themselves, for it has a very limited military (Japanese Constitution prevents a military any larger, because of what happened in WWII), let alone helping Taiwan. Even if they do help Taiwan, it will only add a few days to the fall of Taiwan. Also, Taiwan is NOT a nation. It has yet to declare independence, and no matter how much the Taiwanese would like to think they are independent, no major country in the world recognizes Taiwan as a natoin (Yes, that is true, not even the US officially recognizes Taiwan as a nation. Some small countries, such as Haiti, do recognize Taiwan. But seriously, do we really care what Haiti thinks? When was the last time you heard something about Haiti and their wonderful contributions to the world?) Personally, I like the status quo.


There, my essay on China.


[edit on 4-12-2004 by ATSTT]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by twchang
BTW, it is probably not noly 600 missiles now. It is more likely 800 and still increasing probably.

twchang, you are quite right about the numbers.

China will not make any moves on Taiwan until after the 2008 Olympics, as that's China's showcase event. They will not risk a boycott.

Another thing is that China cannot just destroy Taiwan. China wants Taiwan intact. Destroying Taiwan serves no purpose, and would completely isolate China from the rest of the world.

China's massive arms buildups are not going unnoticed in the west. The almost frantic pace in construction of new SSK's and J-10/J-11/SU-30MKK's indicate China's intent to control the strait so that an amphibious force can go unchallenged. They also understand the absolute need to gain air superiority over both the strait and the island.

China also has other problems she must address before she can get adventurous with Taiwan. There is a brewing problem on the Korean peninsula, and Beijing does not trust Kim one bit. There are already over 100,000 refugees in the border area, and a nuclear exchange on the peninsula would be a disaster for China. Radiation knows no borders, and the refugee problem would increase 10 fold almost overnight.

Last year China moved 150,000 troops to the border, and moved the national police back. Also, in the last two years, over 130 top North Korean generals have defected to China. Some of these generals are in command of Chinese forces on the border. It's obvious that China is setting up a buffer zone, and possibly preparing to stage a military coup to rid themselves of the growing problem caused by an unstable and unpopular government on their border.

Then there's the Spratlys and the Andamans. China is not without her distractions.

Also, people should not underestimate Japan's intent or capabilities. There is much popular support for Japan to build an offensive missile capability, and their Navy is one of the best in the world. And there is such a thing as mutual defence agreements, that Japan and the US will not ignore.

The strategic balance in the Asia-Pacific region is changing, and strategic alliances are shifting with it. Hopefully a blowup can be avoided.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by ATSTT
The modern military of China matches that of the US, with better weaponry and technology. If you do any kind search at all online, you can see the power of the Chinese military.

Also, not only is China one of the most powerful nations in the world in terms of military, it is also becoming one of the economic giants in the world.

As for Japan, they can't even defend themselves, for it has a very limited military (Japanese Constitution prevents a military any larger, because of what happened in WWII), let alone helping Taiwan.

But seriously, do we really care what Haiti thinks? When was the last time you heard something about Haiti and their wonderful contributions to the world?) Personally, I like the status quo.



1. The Chinese military is good but I think it's still years behind the US
2. However, China is ALREADY an economic giant, with the 2nd biggest GDP
3. The Japs are so funny... They're are changing their constitution to improve the military... They had to change it to allow the creation of the SDF, and more times after this... They are rearming quickly and China should watch them
4. I'm a Chinese living in Brazil... Haiti is in turmoil, the president isn't there, so we (Brazilians) sent men to lead UN's peacekeeping mission to Haiti these days (even China sent some men)... They want to win a seat in the Security Council with this



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by engineer

Originally posted by twchang
BTW, it is probably not noly 600 missiles now. It is more likely 800 and still increasing probably.

twchang, you are quite right about the numbers.

China will not make any moves on Taiwan until after the 2008 Olympics, as that's China's showcase event. They will not risk a boycott.


that is the way you guys are thinking:

comparing a game with a possible breakup of a nation??????
I am asking everybody in this forum, how many agree with you ??

come on, please stop thinking like this way, you really make us feel disappointed about the meanings to talk with you about this issue.
p.s I understand you want japan all the way better than China, but the fact is;
how many nukes Japan can take before it is completely destroyed? how many nukes China can take before China is completely destroyed? ........
and how many nukes taiwan can take?
light up your brain, man!! did you drink too much today?







[edit on 4-12-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by ATSTT
China has one of the powerful military in the world. The modern military of China matches that of the US, with better weaponry and technology.

Lol, how old are you?

China has no Bluewater Navy.
China's Airforce is outdated.
China's missile capabilities are questionable.
China's land forces are outdated.
China has a huge infantry, which has to be equipped, trained, fed, etc.
China has no expeditionary capability.

Technologically, China is 15-20 years behind the west wrt military.

I am not bashing China, but your statement is pretty outlandish, to say the least.



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