Originally posted by devilwasp
man this is one heated thread i aint seen one like this since the old USA vs CHINA thread, seriosly can we get back to the question does china have the firepower/manpower/reasources to take taiwan with or without US support.

When you got the arrogance of Americans clashing with the arrogance of China, you got yourself quite a battle.

Probably when you stop threatening them, and believe me they will have their independence.

That is why I say "when they will have guts".

If America goes ahead with the weapons deal i'm sure they'll have plenty of guts

Originally posted by Flyboy211
If America goes ahead with the weapons deal i'm sure they'll have plenty of guts

Yes. I am just wondering why there so many people in Taiwan strongly opposing the purchase, if they are so effective to enbolden their ambition.

Originally posted by zcheng
Yes. I am just wondering why there so many people in Taiwan strongly opposing the purchase, if they are so effective to enbolden their ambition.

If I am holding a gun to your head, am I going to get an honest opinion? Or are you going to say the least inflamitory thing? GET IT?

Originally posted by FredT
With all the talk about about the US, China, and Taiwan one really has to look at the simple fact. China cannot invade at this time.

Why?
1) China lacks the amphibious capacity to move enough troops over
2) Any attempt to airlift in the necessary equipment/troops would in all likelyhood be decimated by Taiwans Pac 2's and thier AF.
3) For all thier thugary, the ChiCom leadership seems to understand that in order to take over Taiwan they would in essence have to burn it down. If they are persuing a scorched earth policy, then there may not be much the US or Taiwan can do to stop them. However, I think they want and need to keep Taiwan viable for thier own economy. Can you imagine the efficiency of slave labor coupled to the quality controll and moderinzation that Taiwan posseses?????
4) The US would not stand by and allow Taiwan to be taken by conventional means. Aside from being a great customer from our planes and weapons systems we also benifit from an economic/industrial standpoint.
5) China can sabre rattle all they want, but can they affort to piss off thier most important trading partner the US?

American president believed in that 50+ yrs ago.
however, there was something happened in Korea.
history would always like to repeat.

you guys do underestimate the determination of PLA.
PLA declared that TW would never be given up even if there was nothing on the island. And I think that was the voice of most chinese.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by devilwasp
you havnt seen how big china is its massive you dont ave the aircraft to take it all down. secondly they have the worlds best anti aircraft screen in the world.
also you think you can take china and NK on you own?

So did the Iraqi's, so did the Serbs, wait so did the Iraqi's again with thier invincible fibreoptic links build for them by guess who? Our friendly neihborhood ChiComs. Penetrating that type of air defence is exactly what the B-2 was designed for. You are right, it is a massive country, but if you just concentrate on strategic targets ICBM's, Dams etc. you could disrupt thier infrastructure.

you must be joking? if B-2 dares to attack ICBM's base, what will you do if you were the leader of PRC?
besides, do you guys ever consider what Russia will do??? don't you think that it is a good chance for Russia to fight back, just like what America did in WWII?
we are talking about wars and politics. it is not simple maths.

Originally posted by gattaca

There are too many things Chinese government done wrong. The worst is the 10 years Cultural Revolution, and waivering Japanese compensation for atrocities in and before WWII. There is also rampant corruption in China today.

In terms of aggression, there are few incidents in the long history of China. In the past two hundred years, China was too weak to protect herself from aggression of Japan, Russia and the West.

Taiwan was and is part of China. Some people in Taiwan want to follow the way of Mongolia, but China is not weak anymore and ready to defend sovereignty.

isn't that just a problem of governemnt type in china???so what happen if China go democratic way??Democratic China (in 20 years for example - it's very real date) - wouldn't taiwanese come and join China with their own will???

I heard that the only problem is that Taiwan doesn't recognize current governemnt type- because the Taiwan was estabilished by Chang-Kai-Shek who fought with communists.

[edit on 26-8-2004 by gattaca]

what did you do to the LOCAL AMERICAN INDIANS???

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by mad scientist
My hypocracy ?? What happened to the Indians was wrong I don't deny that. You however deny what the chinese have done to the Tibetans and other ethnic minorities; and what's worse is you're still doing it. Now that is EVIL.

What do you want China do to make it right?

• Overthrow the communist government
  
• Leave Tibet and pay repartions to the people
  
• Relinquish all claims to sovereign territory
  

well, what you american gov. should do. here is the breakdown:
1. get out of america b/c it belongs to INDIANS.
2. pay repartions to the INDIANS
would you like to do that??? don't say no, as you are not playing double standard so far as i know. fairplay, right?

skylight,

The American government is all about double standards.

Originally posted by mad scientist

• Overthrow the communist government
  
  

whats wrong with comunism its the perfect world but has never been put into practice

Originally posted by cubiehole


What about some of those floating airport things the US has? I hear they have some abilities to project force.

impossbile man they aint even finished the plans i dont think.

Originally posted by cubiehole
What about some of those floating airport things the US has? I hear they have some abilities to project force.

The problem is that China has the capability to sink these "floating airport things".

Originally posted by zcheng


The problem is that China has the capability to sink these "floating airport things".

dude the USAF doesnt have the capability to sink these things. thier like a mile long. big enough for B2's to land on it.
i am not doubting the USAF because they bomb excellently.


[edit on 31-8-2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by skylight
you guys do underestimate the determination of PLA.
PLA declared that TW would never be given up even if there was nothing on the island. And I think that was the voice of most chinese.

Are you saying that the PLA and the CHiCom goverment are separate. Are you suggesting that the Politburo has no controll over your army?????

Originally posted by skylight
it is interesting. where would you like to land your aircraft? Singapore? Australia? oh, friend, these countries have declared that they would not offer any help to TW. Japan? maybe?
do you know the history of WWII in Asia? tell you sth, Chinese hate Japanese most. it is a good excuse to erase Japan from the map.

Its called a carrier battle group. B-2 and B-52 can stage from Guam or Diego Garcia, the B-2's can stage from the US if need be. Once again with the war mongering. Are you sure you are not Zcheng with a new screen name. Funny all this talk we want peace we want peace. Yet we will wipe you out. So which is it?

Originally posted by skylight
what did you do to the LOCAL AMERICAN INDIANS???

Skylight, Im going to cut to the chase because you guys all have the same argument. Instead of answering the questions you redirect to:

What about the Indians?
What if Alaska wanted to leave the union?
etc. etc.

Its pretty clear that you guys read from the same propaganda manual. You guys are like skipping record. Look at the previous posts those questions have been answered many times.

FredT,

Stop assuming everything is propoganda. It's such an old comeback.