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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 11:41 AM
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proteinx,
my idea of freedom is not about becoming a super power that can do anything they want. To understand my idea, you have to look from the perspective of Taiwanese, not from the perspective of China or US.

also, about Japan adjusting their currency...it is not adjusting reallly, because before 1990 Japan is exporting heavily therefore their currency should rise naturally but Japan force it down, that is why they need to "adjust" it later. They should have let the currency value rise a bit gradually so their economy can adjust naturally. But what can I say, business are greedy.

Also, about buying some older weapons. Not everything Taiwan bought are "out dated" weapon as you call it. And Taiwan are not forced to buy them. Taiwan can refuse to buy if it wants. It is ok for US to sell Taiwan F-16 and PAC-3 now, but it is not ok for US to sell F-22 and nuclear sub to Taiwan or any other country now for that matter.

About the nuclear weapon, yea...it seems that it was forced to be terminated by US. But I don't think it is a wrong thing to do. The world can live with less nuclear weapons.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by twchang]

[edit on 26-11-2004 by twchang]




posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:33 PM
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chang:

u opened dictionary, and possibly English ditionary, to answer me the question of what "liberty" and "freedom" means.
U answered me that liberty and freedom is what you are looking for, and that is the reason you want independence.

So I replied you what liberty and freedom means by using the defintion you get from the dirctionary. And you now telling everybody that we have to understand from Taiwanese perspective.

Now, we all want to know exactly:

You, as "Taiwanese", then please tell us WHAT DO YOU REALLY WANT? WHAT, in your head, does liberty or freedom mean from a taiwanese perspective. You seem fail to answer the question obviously.

If you cannot answer the question, then everybody here get very clear idea about what so called "taiwanese" are:

A BUNCH OF PEOPLE JUST HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

That is exactly most people get the idea about you at this moment.

Sorry, if the words hurt. But you shall realize it.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:46 PM
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frankly speaking, it is very plain question, Chang, you just have to answer the question, not for me, but for yourself. and we can openly debate about all your perspectives. If you win, I will help all other Chinese to understand your point, if you lose, please stop doing things that even does not make sense for yourself.

If you think you can live very well with your total politcal freedom with liberty and dignity when you live right in the middle of two super powers. You are not naive---------you are simply living in your day dream. Sorry again if the word hurts, but it is just true.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 02:16 AM
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Wellk, talking about liberty. Taiwan is a province of China and is merely recognized as an independent country by a few banana republics. As such the liberty of 1.3 billion mainland chinese should be considered in this matter because it is a part of their country and a part of their life. So let the 1.3 billion Chinese+taiwanese decided the fate of taiwan.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 03:46 AM
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look, I don't really want to argue here. It seems to me that you think we can argue about this and one of us will win. That is just unrealistic. I have voice my opinions already, just take a look at my previous post and you will find what you are looking for. if you can't accept my opinion, that is fine with me.

There are a lot of things we can talk about on this issue. But I don't like talking to you about it because you simply think I am a mania so I see no point. There are a lot of reasons why I support independence. Since you just keep mocking me on my use of liberty and freedom, it seems you just want to see something concrete with no abstraction. Unfortunately, some of my reasons are abstract. A few concrete reasons I can think of is:

I do not want the current Chinese government to have Taiwan as a province or special territory in any way with any possible domestic interference of governing Taiwan whatsoever. I don't have much in common in any of the basic ideologies or goals of Chinese government or Chinese citizens, therefore I see no reason to be a part of PRC. Also, Taiwan's independence does not necessary mean great loss for China. It is possible for Taiwan and China to have friendly relationship, even become allies in the future when China and Taiwan has a common goal.

You might think that because "Taiwan is part of China" so Taiwan's future should be decided by all Chinese. But have you ever live in Taiwan? Does your government ever own the land of Taiwan? Have you ever contribute anything in Taiwan? Although I have studied a lot of Chinese history, I have no desire to participate in deciding China's future.



[edit on 27-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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what is your opinion? you didnot speak it clearly at all.

all you have said is "liberty"and "freedom" such empty words and you even cannot explain them yet, then how can I understand what you are thinking?

I am trying to help both of us, cause I, like Hawkssss, dont want any possible "war" happening between us. We have to start by communication-------which means you have to express your opinion clearly. You didnot do that, did you?

Of course, we need dig it out clearly, that means we need open mind to express all we really think aobut deep down in our mind. You cannot hide, we cannot hide, nobody can flee away, that is the fact in front of us and we just have to face.

begging, yelling, crying .......those things could not help. Let's express our idea clearly here so we all understand each other.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:04 AM
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well, when I say liberty and freedom, I mean liberty and freedom. That is part of my opinion. I can't help if you think they are empty.
the 3rd paragraph should be what you are looking for.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
I don't have much in common in any of the basic ideologies or goals of Chinese government or Chinese citizens, therefore I see no reason to be a part of PRC.
[edit on 27-11-2004 by twchang]


what is your goal? what is our goal? let's start right from here. can you answer the question? can you express what you are talking about here? if you cannot, how do you know we donot have the same goal, or the other way?



Originally posted by twchang
Also, Taiwan's independence does not necessary mean great loss for China.


In many of your threads, you pinpoint and make key notes that: EVERYBODY NEEDs TO UNDERSTAND TAIWAN FROM TAIWANESE PERSPECTIVE.
and it only applys to "Taiwanese"? does same rule apply to Chinese??????




Originally posted by twchang
It is possible for Taiwan and China to have friendly relationship, even become allies in the future when China and Taiwan has a common goal.


once again you begin to talk empty words, in detail, please, how? what goal?


Originally posted by twchang
You might think that because "Taiwan is part of China" so Taiwan's future should be decided by all Chinese. But have you ever live in Taiwan? Does your government ever own the land of Taiwan? Have you ever contribute anything in Taiwan? Although I have studied a lot of Chinese history, I have no desire to participate in deciding China's future.


No, I didnot.
But that is not the point at this moment. I am talking about you here, not me, I didnot say "I MUST take Taiwan back", I have NOT said that yet (even I will later). I just want to start from yourself: I understand you want Taiwan best! of corse, everybody want his hometown best. But my question is very simple but you keep avoiding to answer it: WHAT CAN YOU GET FROM INDEPENDENCE??????? (NOT empty words, please, give me logic, show me your wisdom)

once again, I just want to know : what is the logic to make you want to be independent. That is the question is not only for me, but also for yourself.







[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
well, when I say liberty and freedom, I mean liberty and freedom. That is part of my opinion. I can't help if you think they are empty.
the 3rd paragraph should be what you are looking for.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by twchang]


You just can not do it, can you? cause you just dont undestand what libery is and what freedom means. By using your own definition, what political freedom you can have once your get independent? What civil liberty you have. How China will involv into your daily life if you dont get independence? Show me the logic, try you best to make some examples. Let's analysis whether they are making sense or not. Everybody in this forum have right to judge what you are saying is right or not.

But, before that, I tell you again:

Freedom means: I, or we have the ability and will to make mylife or our life better and better with my own way without fear any pressure.
Freedom, for any government are relative. It is all matter of power. You have more power, you share more freedom and diginity.
Begging for protect is freedom and liberty? Watch other people's face to speak is freedom and liberty? Use money to buy "friendship" is freedom and liberty? Forced to buy out date weapon (pay the unpromised protect fee) is freedom and liberty?

Admit it, you are Chinese. Cause you are just like what we used to be, we have the same personality: we use to think communism is everything---just like what you think freedom and liberty is everything.

We are not live in empty air, chang, we are living in the world in which every nation trying to grab the best for themselves. The world peace is not there yet. It is jungle out there.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:20 AM
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"WHAT CAN I GET FROM INDEPENDENCE?"

I have already answer your question. I hope to achieve those goal through indepedence. Also, Taiwan is already independence now, just not officially declaring it. So it is also about maintaining the current way.

But if what you want is for me to predict the future, to predict what can I get from Taiwan's independence, then I have no idea. I am not a prophet. I can only say what I hope to achieve, I can't predict what I can achieve.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:25 AM
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Jsut one question to both of you twchang and proteinx..Do you live in Taiwan and mainland China respectively?..Just curious..



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:25 AM
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wow, cool off a bit. I never believe things absolutely. I have ideas and dreams etc, but not everything becomes reality. I am only sharing opinions.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Jsut one question to both of you twchang and proteinx..Do you live in Taiwan and mainland China respectively?..Just curious..


Right now, no. But I went back and work in Taiwan for a while recently.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
"WHAT CAN I GET FROM INDEPENDENCE?"


But if what you want is for me to predict the future, to predict what can I get from Taiwan's independence, then I have no idea. I am not a prophet. I can only say what I hope to achieve, I can't predict what I can achieve.


Did I say I want you to predict your future?
Say, I am hungry, so I eat. Hungry is reason to eat.
Same thing for you? what is the reason, what is the logic?
You fail, you even dare not to say, because you are NOT SURE!!! Because you are not sure what is going to happen if Taiwan declare independence.
And you are not sure which way is best for Taiwan.

If you are doing things or support things that you are not sure what is the consequences.

you are :
either lost your mind
or
you live a life without purpose because you dont belive purpose



[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:39 AM
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^^huh?!!!What is your point?..And do you reside in china proteinx?..Im aching to know...



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:42 AM
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Didn't I say one of the reason already:
"I do not want the current Chinese government to have Taiwan as a province or special territory in any way with any possible domestic interference of governing Taiwan whatsoever. I don't have much in common in any of the basic ideologies or goals of Chinese government or Chinese citizens, therefore I see no reason to be a part of PRC. "

And I hope to achieve those through independence. That is why I support independence.

Well, it is kind of like this:
If you are going to start a company, you hope to achieve something and gain some money. You have a plan and you think you can achieve it, but you don't know for sure...



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
^^huh?!!!What is your point?..And do you reside in china proteinx?..Im aching to know...



My point is very simple:

I want Chang show me the logic why Taiwan shall be independent nation from China.

She cannt explain it, all she can say is just empty words "liberty" and "freedom" but even cannot explain what they are meaning for Taiwan.
I guess she think that two words are just like Bible for her........

Does Ukraine has freedom and liberty at this moment when both US and Russian involved into their political elections? sigh......we use to yell the beautiful words most in the world everyday and think words can make us better and better until we found out we were so stupid 20 years ago. Now, other chinese become like we used to be.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
Didn't I say one of the reason already:
"I do not want the current Chinese government to have Taiwan as a province or special territory in any way with any possible domestic interference of governing Taiwan whatsoever. I don't have much in common in any of the basic ideologies or goals of Chinese government or Chinese citizens, therefore I see no reason to be a part of PRC. "

And I hope to achieve those through independence. That is why I support independence.



WOW, i THINK YOU SAID LIBERTY AND FREEDOM ALL THE TIME??????????


Is California or Boston be able to be independent from USA?
Is Alabama or Texas be able to be independent from USA?
Is Hawaii be able to be independent from USA?


Does any law in this world, any law in any nation had this kind of example?

Can I declare my home be independent country when want to build my own country with just my family member?


[edit on 27-11-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:52 AM
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hahaha...I know this is off topic, but I am a he, not she.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
hahaha...I know this is off topic, but I am a he, not she.


sorry, I always only think it is women cannot express logic clearly. My fault



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