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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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hmm...I am not saying that China is like German back in WW2. It is not in that degree yet. But really though, Chinese people should beware not to let their nationalism run too hot. Wasn't there a soccer riot during a game between Japan and China a few months ago?

Taiwan doesn't really create that division on genetic level. It is more a division in political and culture level. Because in the past, when the KMT is still a dictator, the WSR are the rulers that is why WSR and BSR division is created. However, the division is blurring now, and there is not much difference between WSR and BSR, although some older WSR still consider themselves surperior, but they are the minority.

We don't differentiate much between WSR and BSR now. As long as one is a citizen of Taiwan and likes Taiwan, it does not matter where they are from, they are Taiwanese.




posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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I didn't say that you said there was any division betwen WSR and BSR. I am simply saying during your arguments you have used the fact WSR(KMT) have been in taiwan shorter as an argument. I am simply saying you have also used this human factor as a way for argument, same as I am using our bloodline and genetics as an arguement.

Don't worry about our nationalism. Every proud country has nationalism and ours is no worse or no better than most countries. Yes, there was some kind of anti-jap thing during the soccer game, but it was not a riot. This sort of thing happens in every country. Isn't your pro-independence an example of nationalism that could very well lead to war???? In japan, there were demonstrations against other "lesser races" all the time, isn't that nationalism?? We are peanuts compared with this.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Well, I am not saying that Nationalism is bad thing. It is kind of natural, sort of.

But when Nationalism goes to a level when the people in a nation start thinking that they have the surperior race, surperior culture or surperior religion,...etc, then it starts to become troublesome and will back fire. Some very good example are the Germany in WW2 and the ancient China. It is also very easy for a dictator to take control when the nation is in this state of mind.



[edit on 20-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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then we agree there is no problem with china's nationalism at the moment. Like you said, it is only natural



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
then we agree there is no problem with china's nationalism at the moment. Like you said, it is only natural


Yes, overall I wouldn't say that the nationalism of China is out of ordinary at the moment. Although there are small group of people that just need to cool off a bit. But as you said before, that exists in a lot of countries.

And perhaps with the free flow of information, nationalism will turn into a healthy one, not into a fanatical zeal.

[edit on 20-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 21 2004 @ 07:36 AM
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WHAT THE F**K!
look if you want to talk about blood lines and polictical agenda's go to the politics page or the below top secret forum or the history one.

the US pacific fleet can hold china off from taiwan, but actually delivering a decisive victory against them causeing them to back off is a rather debatable subject.

i will post after a look the stats of both the US pacific fleet and US airforces units in strikeing distance of china and the PLAN's and the PLAA's and the PLA's forces in southern china and the surrounding islands.



posted on Nov, 22 2004 @ 06:32 PM
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devil, chill boy! Some friendly and homely chat isn't gonna hurt you..



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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[edit on 23-11-2004 by aryaputhra]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
devil, chill boy! Some friendly and homely chat isn't gonna hurt you..

well you are argueing about religion and blood line in weaponry.
i cant say much i have done similar but i thought this thread was about seeing if china could invade taiwan.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:23 AM
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It's more logic to think that it's currently all sable rattling from China to invade Taiwan because of the reasons that were given by FredT. China does this to stop the increasing desire of Taiwanese politicians going for independency.

The Chinese leadership has pledged that before 2020, Taiwan will be annexed again with China. Who knows, perhaps by then China is some kind of democracy (thus Tawain wants to be part of the mainland again) or she will have the necessary forces to invade Taiwan.

Just a note, from what I understand, a lot of Taiwanese want to be part of the mainland when China is a democracy. In fact the current Taiwanese investments in the mainland is already very huge, although many Taiwanese companies do not want to give exact figures due to the anti-mainland atmosphere by the government.

www.china-ready.com...

Blobber


[edit on 23-11-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Then the question is will China ever shift to a democratic government?
I doubt it will ever happen peacefully..



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Then the question is will China ever shift to a democratic government?
I doubt it will ever happen peacefully..


Never say never lol. They are already experimenting with some democratic mechanisms in the lower level, who knows perhaps China will be a democracy or some hybrid form.

Blobber



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Okay Blobber, don't think I am born to disagree with everything you say
, but I disagree on that one simply because I don't think the current party in China will ever turn over the governing power to the people, or let them have that much influence.

Maybe they will, but considering that they drove over those poeple with tanks in 1989, it makes me wonder.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 10:34 PM
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So why don't you tell me what the current government is like since you are such an expert in this area? Oh, please save us all the propaganda.

@Indian

whatever you say, your form of so=-called and failed democrazy is definitely not the form we seek.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Next thing he is going to predict is China is going to turn into a Fascist Totalitarian Type of Government .


I think China can invade Taiwan, despite all the odds. You might say what odds? I say many.



posted on Nov, 23 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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"What ever you say I'll be as ignorant as ever, You ain't going to make see the light!!"....Hawksss rhetoric...



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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hmm

I'm a Chinese living abroad, and just hate the Communists and what they do with people... Although it's not perfect, democracy is far better than a totalitarian government



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Broadsword2004
Okay Blobber, don't think I am born to disagree with everything you say
, but I disagree on that one simply because I don't think the current party in China will ever turn over the governing power to the people, or let them have that much influence.

Maybe they will, but considering that they drove over those poeple with tanks in 1989, it makes me wonder.


The USSR intervened in 1968 in Czechoslovakia, yet the Warschau Pact is gone. In 1990 the USSR intervened in the Baltic states, and now Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are in the European Union.

If you look at the Tiananmen Square massacre -I remind you that local Chinese forces didn't want to intervene and the leaderschip had to bring forces from the northern provinces- there are reasons why China, viewed from their perspective, was not ready for democracy: e.g. look at the economic rise of China, and compare that with the chaos of Russia and the CIS, after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I think that the Chinese leadership will, step by step, put more reforms into their system trying to secure an optimal economic development and advoiding instability. We shall just have to see whether in the future they will be a pure democracy, or some kind of hybrid form. Though I cannot imagine that an hybrid form is optimal in the long run.

Blobber


[edit on 24-11-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:03 PM
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I read several pages of this thread. really interesting.
I am Chinese from mainland but have lots friends from both mainland and Taiwan. Some of the people from Taiwan they do have strong kind of feeling about their own "country". I once asked them "why?". Almost 100% of them told me that Chinese government is "communist". If they unite with Chinese mainland, they will lost their properties; the second concern from them is that they do feel uncomfortable cause they think most of western people despite Chinese because Chinese basically means "poor", "under educated", "illage immigrants"...blabla, and they are eager to declare they are not Chinese.
Regarding the first concern, many times I almost laughed out, and I am reluctant to waste my time to explain to them.
Regarding the second question, I could say nothing about it, it was true even it is getting better. But I always told my coworker in my lab that we Chinese used to be much better in the history and we will be much better than rest of the world soon soon. very soon. And I do belive I can see this day coming in my life time. one very simple clue: How many Chinese graduate students working in USA universities now? How many of them are coming back to China?

At the same time, however, I do have one question for people like Chiang in this thread:

WHAT CAN YOU GET FROM INDEPENDENCE-----
when you probably will face biggest hostile neighbor and really build the aweful enemy that nobody else in this world wan to face, and make the enemy right in front of you after you get independence,

When your protectors (both USA or possible Japan) themselve try to avoid conflict with China and know there is no hope of confrontation for either of them (including China itself).

When you have biggest trade profit from China? and all your economy currently almost totally dependent on China?

When you really hurt 1.3 billion people and make them fury.

When you completely ignore and cheat yourself to deny the huge opportunity in the land of your own ancestor.

-------------I just donot get it. dont get it at all. and I think it is completely stupid blind "nationalism" from brain wash.

All the independence movements only benifits two : Japanese and selfish taiwan politicians

Japanese know that will be their day if US finally confront with China. Taiwan ugly politicians know they can really get lots money and fame from this. However, they really think people in USA or China are really idiots and will make fight becaues of them.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:18 PM
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Chiang:

Hawkssss has been really polite to you when he called your brother and you threw words back "disgusting".

That is basically how we get in 20 years. And that is also why we build more and more missile instead of smiling for nothing. Especially some of you guys show intimacy with Japanese.

You must know "Shui Hu" (one of the most famous Chinese novel written centures ago). And you must know "Yang Zhi" and the guy who was making fun by continuously humuliating "Yang Zhi" when Yang was selling his precious sword.

I can tell you one thing: What your currently "president" finally get is what the guy in the novel finally got.

It is just about "when", not "whether"


[edit on 25-11-2004 by proteinx]

[edit on 25-11-2004 by proteinx]



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