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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Just a friendly reminder from the neighborhood Mod, please keep on topic and skip the personal attacks and insults.

Thanks.
FredT


dear friendly mod... so, I won a dazzling red "Warn" for this ?
OK
I'll try to just ignore those who are sooo ignorant




posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 06:47 PM
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"only needs 2 aircraft carriers, plus destroyers, cruisers with mid range missiles, and fighters, bombers from Okinawa and other islands near the area. "

1) why should US help Taiwan while it can be mired in a military conflict with the world's 3rd most powerful country

2)it could lead to MAD

3) China is too important a trading partner and economic power

4) only 2 carrier groups is enough???? Didn't the US send 2 carriers a few years ago and was planning to sent 5-7 groups this year?????

Our brother from taiwan is woofully underestimating china's capability, espcially our missile force---- Second Artillery Force. Don't forget we sent a man into space and our own GPS system. This means we are pretty good at missile/rocket tech and Taiwan province is just off mainland's coastline

Bottomline: there won't be a war. Mainland wants peaceful unification. All the military threats are threats and nothing more. We are not about to kill our own brothers...



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
1) why should US help Taiwan while it can be mired in a military conflict with the world's 3rd most powerful country

2)it could lead to MAD

3) China is too important a trading partner and economic power

4) only 2 carrier groups is enough???? Didn't the US send 2 carriers a few years ago and was planning to sent 5-7 groups this year?????

Our brother from taiwan is woofully underestimating china's capability, espcially our missile force---- Second Artillery Force. Don't forget we sent a man into space and our own GPS system. This means we are pretty good at missile/rocket tech and Taiwan province is just off mainland's coastline

Bottomline: there won't be a war. Mainland wants peaceful unification. All the military threats are threats and nothing more. We are not about to kill our own brothers...


1) that is why I said ""IF" US is going to help" in my post. I never assume US will absolutely help.

4) really? That is amazing, especially with US still conducting war on terror...but you might be right. But I say only need 2 carriers not because I think 2 carriers alone is enough, it is because there are already other fighters and bombers stationed near the area, and also cruise missiles from destroyers, frigates and submarines are effective as well. Plus, Taiwan itself has about 270 fighters, so you can count Taiwan as 2 aircraft carriers in a way. But hey, the more the merrier...for Taiwan, if US can handle it.

True, I might have underestimated China's capability. I am only theorising from what I know is true. However, it is also possible that you have overestimated China's capability or underestimate Taiwan's capability.

hmm...and please don't call people in Taiwan brothers when China is pointing missiles at Taiwan and threatening Taiwan....gives me a chill.


[edit on 20-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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U.S. is making plans to target GPS satelites of enemy combatants.

The U.S. has three ways to target it's missles only one is GPS.

China calling Taiwanese Brother is a little silly when they plan to destroy the island if they can't steal it by threat.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 08:01 AM
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How about using that huge trade surplus to BUY taiwan, discretely buy large amount of stocks in companies, buy keypeople in political parties and buy Taiwanese gangsters/mob to take out opposition?

Alternatively, dig a huge tunnel , and on chrismass eve, popup 1 milllion chinese infanterist in the middle of the island



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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^^^Post more often Countermeasures..
people who post plausible stuff are at an all time low at ATS weaps forum IMHO!!
too many personal vendettas cloud sensible posting..



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by poirot

Originally posted by FredT
Just a friendly reminder from the neighborhood Mod, please keep on topic and skip the personal attacks and insults.

Thanks.
FredT


dear friendly mod... so, I won a dazzling red "Warn" for this ?
OK
I'll try to just ignore those who are sooo ignorant



Well since you had directed the 'personal attack' at me may I know with refernce to what?..
Just curious you know...



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 12:18 PM
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Well, of course people from taiwan province are our brothers.. There are brothers that were separated by the civil war in 1949 who live on both sides of the straights. Our taiwanese brothers come back to china to visit their home village all the time... You are our brothers and we are one big family and no less.

Chinese new year will be upon us soon so happy new year to our brothers in taiwan province!!



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Countermeasures
How about using that huge trade surplus to BUY taiwan, discretely buy large amount of stocks in companies, buy keypeople in political parties and buy Taiwanese gangsters/mob to take out opposition?

Alternatively, dig a huge tunnel , and on chrismass eve, popup 1 milllion chinese infanterist in the middle of the island


Yea, I think that is a possible strategy. I think China is already trying to buy the "key" people in Taiwan. If you are familiar with politics in Taiwan, you will notice it. However, so far they are not very successful it seems. Because the problem is that Taiwan has elections and each time a politician leaning too much taword China, he/she will likely lose the next election. And man...the relentless media bambarment will make them look like garbage.

Buying Taiwanese gangsters/mob is also possible, but they are without support from normal citizens and therefore no match for the police force if they want to do something big. Moreover, there are just not enough of them to take out the opposition.

Digging tunnel will be too expensive. Just look at the tunnel between England and France. But infiltration is a possible strategy.

[edit on 20-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
Well, of course people from taiwan province are our brothers.. There are brothers that were separated by the civil war in 1949 who live on both sides of the straights. Our taiwanese brothers come back to china to visit their home village all the time... You are our brothers and we are one big family and no less.

Chinese new year will be upon us soon so happy new year to our brothers in taiwan province!!


Your statement is largely untrue:
The people that go back to China to visit their home village are the ones that were born in China and fleed from China, ie, the old people in KMT. They are now averaging 70 years old, and represent about less than 10% of the demographics. A lot more people go to China for tourism and business.

Well, Happy New Years to you. But seriously, don't call Taiwanese brothers, because that is really really disgusting. If you really want to call the people that go back and visit their home town as a relatives, you should call them uncle or grand uncle.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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It has nothing disgusting about it. We are brothers separated by a civil and the ensuing ideological struggle during the cold war.

The KMT are from mainland, but that doesn't mean the other inhabitants are not from mainland. They were all immigrants from mainland throughout the millenium. The only difference between the "Wai Shen Ren" (ousiders A.K.A. people came to taiwan in 1949( and "Ben Shen Ren" (people that came to taiw earlier) is when they went to taiwan. It is merely a matter of time. In essence, both are immigrants from the mainland. Unless of course, you the one of the obriginals who number very few these days... You are not one of them obriginals (Gao Shan Zu) rather than a Han Chinese, are you?



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
It has nothing disgusting about it. We are brothers separated by a civil and the ensuing ideological struggle during the cold war.

The KMT are from mainland, but that doesn't mean the other inhabitants are not from mainland. They were all immigrants from mainland throughout the millenium. The only difference between the "Wai Shen Ren" (ousiders A.K.A. people came to taiwan in 1949( and "Ben Shen Ren" (people that came to taiw earlier) is when they went to taiwan. It is merely a matter of time. In essence, both are immigrants from the mainland. Unless of course, you the one of the obriginals who number very few these days... You are not one of them obriginals (Gao Shan Zu) rather than a Han Chinese, are you?


Geez...now we are getting into the bloodline stuff.

Most Taiwanese are BSR as you call it. BSR are mixed blood of people from China, the obriginals and people from the region of Philippine. Because in earlier days, the people from China to Taiwan don't immigrant as a family (because sea traveling during that time is very dangerous), they are mostly male immigrants. They settle down and merry to abriginals mostly. Also, people from China are not purely Han Chinese.

They are still doing some research on this topic. But so far that is the result.

Well, do you see English calling American brothers now adays? Even if you really, really want to call people in Taiwan brothers, you must stop threatening and pressuring Taiwan, and recognize Taiwan as a seperate country.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 01:32 PM
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well, US became independent 250 years ago and not one single person from then is still alive. But our civil war happened merely 50 years ago and there are witnesses alive to this day; brothers separated by the civil and live on both sides of the straight are alive today.. So two entirely different concept.

But, how many BSR have obriginal and Philipino blood? Does your research tell you that? What about yourself? When did your ancestor went to taiwan and what part of china (fujian) were they from?



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
But, how many BSR have obriginal and Philipino blood? Does your research tell you that? What about yourself? When did your ancestor went to taiwan and what part of china (fujian) were they from?


hmm...I don't think I read any research report that detail yet. They only did some genetic research and historical record study.

However, the BSR starts immigranting to Taiwan at least 200 years ago. After so many generation of mix and match, you can probably say that all the BSR has some obriginal and Philipino blood in them, especially the obriginal.

Back then, Taiwan was a large base for pirates. And there are merchants going back and forth between China, islands on Southern Sea, Taiwan and Okinawa. Some even went as far as Korea and Japan. So Taiwan was not an isolated islands even back then.

I can say that my ancestor (at least the male side) are from Fujian province. My family has a family tree record but I don't have it right now.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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when did they arrive in taiwan? Any mix with the Gao Shan or philipinos in your family?



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
when did they arrive in taiwan? Any mix with the Gao Shan or philipinos in your family?


at least 5-6 generations, if I remember correctly.

I have no idea. But probably yes.

If you go to Taiwan and look around, you will notice that a lot of Taiwanese don't look like Chinese at all. Some have aboriginal traits, others with Philipino traits.

But perhaps we shouldn't care too much about this genetic stuff because it is off topic, and ultimently all man kind originated in Africa.


[edit on 20-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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Worrying too much about race creates that 'SUPER RACE' mentality that was the doom of Hitler.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 02:25 PM
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oh boy, we are far, far, far away from Hitler-like. And genetics is extremely important as well as culture, heritage, history..... I would not give a phart if the indians kill themselves all or the americans kill themselves.... But, I don't like to see fight among chinese and our cousins: people from taiwan are our brothers; people from korea, vietnam, singapore and some japanese are our cousins.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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Ultimently though all mankind are one race. There are differences but they are more of culture difference than genetic difference.

And yea, don't worry too much about genetics because then it will be easy for someone like Hitler to take control and create unnecessary division amoung people.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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hehhe

Likening china to hitler is kind over the top, don't you think? Yes, humans are all one big family, but there are difference. Hell, humans are animals in certain aspects too. Didn't you yourself distinguished between BSR and WSR (KMT). Afterall, we are all the same shallow people, aren't we?



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